Speculation: The coaching search continues

[NyQuil]

Realistically what did they think Berube was going to cost? He was the best coach available ffs

Clearly Staios is a very patient man not sure if that’s gonna be a good thing for roster turnover I personally wanna see lots of change this summer.

It’s entirely possible that Berube wanted more from us because we’re a non-playoff team and have been for years.

Regardless, it was clearly a factor.

 

[Micklebot]

Look, I don't think we're going to see eye to eye here Mickle, but here's my take:

We didn't need to commit 4 years. We could have committed 2, and extended him if he proved he was worth it.

By committing 4 years, we commit to paying him all 4 years regardless, unless some team decides to scoop him up after we get fed up with him. We'd be lucky if that were the case at the end of this experiment.

It is a waste of money for a franchise everyone seems to understand can't waste money, and yet another attempt by an owner of this franchise to save money in the short term at the expense of long term success.

Ok, try thinking about this the same way you think about a player like Pinto, we could sign him to a brige deal now (let's pretend we're doing it this past offseason when his future was less clear), or go long term, both have risks associated with them and both have benefits, you already decided Green will get fired in two years it seems, so 4 years is a problem, Staios however chose Green, and likely did so over option you'd have preferred, so from his perspective, 4 years may very well be a positive. We'll have to wait and see how it pans out, but we're a cap team und Andlauer, I'll worry about hypothetical wasted money on an extra year of a coaches contract when it impacts the roster decision, because so far there is no reason to think that will be the case under Andlauer.

 

[flyingfingers]

Ok, try thinking about this the same way you think about a player like Pinto, we could sign him to a brige deal now (let's pretend we're doing it this past offseason when his future was less clear), or go long term, both have risks associated with them and both have benefits, you already decided Green will get fired in two years it seems, so 4 years is a problem, Staios however chose Green, and likely did so over option you'd have preferred, so from his perspective, 4 years may very well be a positive. We'll have to wait and see how it pans out, but we're a cap team und Andlauer, I'll worry about hypothetical wasted money on an extra year of a coaches contract when it impacts the roster decision, because so far there is no reason to think that will be the case under Andlauer.

We haven't hit his first offseason and we already have Elliotte Friedman and Nick Kypreos going on the radio and talking about how the team may have moved past Berube because of money.

We also have Staios saying that he won't be buying out any players, despite the fact that we have two players who are prime candidates for buyouts.

So I think there's a reason to think that money will be a prioritized factor in decisions, just like it was in years past.

Last year, Staios talked about how he was hoping to get through the year with DJ. Was it because he thought he could actually turn things around and "stabilize" the team, or because he and Andlauer were hoping to not have to pay another coach until his contract expired since they weren't going to be that good anyways?

 

[Relapsing]

Ok, try thinking about this the same way you think about a player like Pinto, we could sign him to a brige deal now (let's pretend we're doing it this past offseason when his future was less clear), or go long term, both have risks associated with them and both have benefits, you already decided Green will get fired in two years it seems, so 4 years is a problem, Staios however chose Green, and likely did so over option you'd have preferred, so from his perspective, 4 years may very well be a positive. We'll have to wait and see how it pans out, but we're a cap team und Andlauer, I'll worry about hypothetical wasted money on an extra year of a coaches contract when it impacts the roster decision, because so far there is no reason to think that will be the case under Andlauer.

Ignoring the suspension to Pinto, he should have been bridged that offseason.

Yeah, Staios chose Green, and I now have less trust in Staios' vision of this team than I did this weekend.

I'm now firmly in the camp that we will be entering at least a multi-year re-tooling, if not a complete rebuild, because why would you spend money on someone like Berube if your plan is to be shit for the next couple of years anyways.

Green will quite literally have to do something he's never done before to not get fired mid-way through this contract: Have consecutive seasons with a winning record. If we're talking risk/reward, that's too risky of a gamble for me, and clearly many others here.

 

[Micklebot]

It’s entirely possible that Berube wanted more from us because we’re a non-playoff team and have been for years.

Regardless, it was clearly a factor.

Well, we have a lot of "I think" hedging in Freidman's piece, so I'd say likely a consideration,

Friedman also seemed to be cautioning against reading too much into the financial element, saying "I always want to be careful with this stuff because it doesn't always mean, uhm, sometimes that gets warped into certain directions and I'm not always comfortable with it..."

 

[NyQuil]

Well, we have a lot of "I think" hedging in Freidman's piece, so I'd say likely a consideration,

Friedman also seemed to be cautioning against reading too much into the financial element, saying "I always want to be careful with this stuff because it doesn't always mean, uhm, sometimes that gets warped into certain directions and I'm not always comfortable with it..."

He’s trying to be nice because we are super sensitive around “cheap” in this market.

 

[flyingfingers]

Well, we have a lot of "I think" hedging in Freidman's piece, so I'd say likely a consideration,

Friedman also seemed to be cautioning against reading too much into the financial element, saying "I always want to be careful with this stuff because it doesn't always mean, uhm, sometimes that gets warped into certain directions and I'm not always comfortable with it..."

"I think" is how Elliotte Friedman speaks, if you listen to him on any topic. Whether it's a coaching decision, GM change, or potential trade.

Yesterday morning he said, "I want to be careful about this since things can always change, but look out for Travis Green in Ottawa."

He definitely knew, at that point, that Travis Green was going to Ottawa, since it was essentially confirmed 45 minutes later.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I will be interested to hear Travis speak and where he thinks this team is at. Say what you will about him, but I think he speaks well and exudes confidence at least.

I really think this is looking like we might blow it up a little bit this summer in ways nobody is expecting. Guys like Chabot and Tkachuk are about to age out soon, and will surely be looking to move on. Their remaining contract lengths can't really be looked at as the runway if losing continues, since this would likely be the last losing season before trades are asked for. Maybe 2 more, but even that seems like it's pushing it.

 

[flyingfingers]

I will be interested to hear Travis speak and where he thinks this team is at. Say what you will about him, but I think he speaks well and exudes confidence at least.

I really think this is looking like we might blow it up a little bit this summer in ways nobody is expecting. Guys like Chabot and Tkachuk are about to age out soon, and will surely be looking to move on. Their remaining contract lengths can't really be looked at as the runway if losing continues, since this would likely be the last losing season before trades are asked for. Maybe 2 more, but even that seems like it's pushing it.

The fanbase would be okay with Chabot moving on. Even if he wasn't replaced because of a "reset", they'd stomach it.

It will be complete disaster if Tkachuk is traded at any point in the next 3 seasons.

 

[PlayOn]

I will be interested to hear Travis speak and where he thinks this team is at. Say what you will about him, but I think he speaks well and exudes confidence at least.

I really think this is looking like we might blow it up a little bit this summer in ways nobody is expecting. Guys like Chabot and Tkachuk are about to age out soon, and will surely be looking to move on. Their remaining contract lengths can't really be looked at as the runway if losing continues, since this would likely be the last losing season before trades are asked for. Maybe 2 more, but even that seems like it's pushing it.

I think the messaging of the team is very opposite to this. Usually a team that is planning on re-tooling will articulate that well in advance. This team has been consistent in the messaging of trying to improve moving forward, and is just avoiding saying playoffs because of the reaction in the past.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The fanbase would be okay with Chabot moving on. Even if he wasn't replaced because of a "reset", they'd stomach it.

It will be complete disaster if Tkachuk is traded at any point in the next 3 seasons.

I think so too.

I don't think that'll be up to them. If another losing season happens, imo Tkachuk asks out. We have one season to course correct or he's gone imo.

 

[otown]

I wonder which candidate Jacques liked for the team. Travis or maybe someone else?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think the messaging of the team is very opposite to this. Usually a team that is planning on re-tooling will articulate that well in advance. This team has been consistent in the messaging of trying to improve moving forward, and is just avoiding saying playoffs because of the reaction in the past.

I think they know it can't really be said with how bad things have gone in Ottawa and for how long, but I think they're also being realistic about the roster and assets available to them to turn it around. Is there a path to that? I'm not so sure and I think that's what they're seeing. I don 't know if that means blow it up, but I'm sure they see that things either turn around immediately or the next phase happens with some guys going out the door and a bit of a reset. I don't know that it's within their power to turn it around as fast as required, so I can see them taking a conservative approach with a willingness to start to move guys that want to move on.

We're likely looking at a core more with Stutzle, Sanderson, Pinto, Greig than the Tkachuk's, Chabot's and Batherson's that are approaching 30 and haven't ever gotten to play a competitive season of hockey in their pro careers.

 

[Qward]

Just so that I am clear, Staios has made 2 moves since being the GM.

Hiring Green and getting a 4th and a 3rd for a 50% retained Tarasenko.

Am I correct?

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Just so that I am clear, Staios has made 2 moves since being the GM.

Hiring Green and getting a 4th and a 3rd for a 50% retained Tarasenko.

Am I correct?

He hired Poulin as well.

 

[Relapsing]

He hired Poulin as well.

Fired Dorion only after he publicly humiliated this team.

Fired DJ way too late.

 

[flyingfingers]

I think so too.

I don't think that'll be up to them. If another losing season happens, imo Tkachuk asks out. We have one season to course correct or he's gone imo.

If that's the case, it makes the Green hiring such a head scratcher. You either have to pick one of two paths:

1. Ramp things up to start winning next season. That means paying up for a coach who can hit the ground running like Berube, buying out Korpisalo to get him off the roster, spending a good chunk of change on a Pesce/Tanev/Roy, etc.

Or.

2. Actually reset. We should've traded Chychrun at the deadline when a team could've had him for two playoff runs, and we should look into trading Tkachuk this summer before his NMC kicks in and he can force you to trade him to Florida or Vegas, or any of the other "core" players.

Instead we're probably heading down the middle road. A mediocre team that ends up out of the playoffs but not in the bottom 6 or 7, an unhappy captain who can force his way out to a team of his choosing, a end-of-season presser where our coach and GM talk about the lessons learned, and an even more disenchanted fanbase.

 

[chipsens]

Just so that I am clear, Staios has made 2 moves since being the GM.

Hiring Green and getting a 4th and a 3rd for a 50% retained Tarasenko.

Am I correct?

Didn't he also hire Poulin? That would be a TURD move dat makes 3, no?!

 

[PlayOn]

I think they know it can't really be said with how bad things have gone in Ottawa and for how long, but I think they're also being realistic about the roster and assets available to them to turn it around. Is there a path to that? I'm not so sure and I think that's what they're seeing. I don 't know if that means blow it up, but I'm sure they see that things either turn around immediately or the next phase happens with some guys going out the door and a bit of a reset. I don't know that it's within their power to turn it around as fast as required, so I can see them taking a conservative approach with a willingness to start to move guys that want to move on.

We're likely looking at a core more with Stutzle, Sanderson, Pinto, Greig than the Tkachuk's, Chabot's and Batherson's that are approaching 30 and haven't ever gotten to play a competitive season of hockey in their pro careers.

I mean I generally agree, but I don’t know if I see that as re-tooling. I think the re-tool only happens if we are bad again next year which is obviously a possibility. But I do think they’re trying to avoid it. If Brady wants out, I think you have to move Chabot and Batherson, recognizing there’s no real window with the current group.

But otherwise, the core changing is more of a natural evolution than retooling imo. In 3 years Zub and Batherson will expire, then Brady and Chabot the year after. Ottawa will have to choose which guys to move forward with, but I think they’d want to keep at least 2 of the 4 all things considered. It’s different in the sense that Ottawa should be planning for this and have “replacements” ready to go for the guys they elect not to keep, and the ones deemed essential should be re-signed.

 

[chipsens]

Does our world CHANGE tonight when our COLD BALL comes up #1 OA ? We be Cellebreening mon!

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

If that's the case, it makes the Green hiring such a head scratcher. You either have to pick one of two paths:

1. Ramp things up to start winning next season. That means paying up for a coach who can hit the ground running like Berube, buying out Korpisalo to get him off the roster, spending a good chunk of change on a Pesce/Tanev/Roy, etc.

Or.

2. Actually reset. We should've traded Chychrun at the deadline when a team could've had him for two playoff runs, and we should look into trading Tkachuk this summer before his NMC kicks in and he can force you to trade him to Florida or Vegas, or any of the other "core" players.

Instead we're probably heading down the middle road. A mediocre team that ends up out of the playoffs but not in the bottom 6 or 7, an unhappy captain who can force his way out to a team of his choosing, a end-of-season presser where our coach and GM talk about the lessons learned, and an even more disenchanted fanbase.

Well, for starters I think it's clearly option 2. I doubt they see a path for option 1 is the issue, as most of us can see how difficult it will be to turn things around quickly while being a asset starved. I just don't think this is all that possible.

I don't entirely agree with the sentiment on Chychrun. If the additional value were there, I think he would have been moved. I think the main issue with him is he isn't valued much around the league, so they're going to end up taking their lumps either way, and leaving it to the summer may open up the potential of more teams involved, maybe with an extension included.

I think ultimately the Tkachuk situation is out of their control. A path to turn it around quickly enough is a lofty expectation, so I think they're sort of being forced in to it in a sense and you really can't blame Tkachuk either. His career is almost half over and he still hasn't played in a single NHL game that meant anything.

 

[flyingfingers]

Well, for starters I think it's clearly option 2. I doubt they see a path for option 1 is the issue, as most of us can see how difficult it will be to turn things around quickly while being a asset starved. I just don't think this is all that possible.

I don't entirely agree with the sentiment on Chychrun. If the additional value were there, I think he would have been moved. I think the main issue with him is he isn't valued much around the league, so they're going to end up taking their lumps either way, and leaving it to the summer may open up the potential of more teams involved, maybe with an extension included.

I think ultimately the Tkachuk situation is out of their control. A path to turn it around quickly enough is a lofty expectation, so I think they're sort of being forced in to it in a sense and you really can't blame Tkachuk either. His career is almost half over and he still hasn't played in a single NHL game that meant anything.

These are depressing thoughts. But they're probably correct.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I mean I generally agree, but I don’t know if I see that as re-tooling. I think the re-tool only happens if we are bad again next year which is obviously a possibility. But I do think they’re trying to avoid it. If Brady wants out, I think you have to move Chabot and Batherson, recognizing there’s no real window with the current group.

But otherwise, the core changing is more of a natural evolution than retooling imo. In 3 years Zub and Batherson will expire, then Brady and Chabot the year after. Ottawa will have to choose which guys to move forward with, but I think they’d want to keep at least 2 of the 4 all things considered. It’s different in the sense that Ottawa should be planning for this and have “replacements” ready to go for the guys they elect not to keep, and the ones deemed essential should be re-signed.

I don't just think it's a possibility, I think it's the most likely scenario that they're out of the playoffs again next year. The odds are in favor of that pretty heavily imo.

I agree and basically said as much later on. There is going to be a core reset with the guys closer to 20 being the core to build around, while the guys approaching 30 will be moved, at least most of them. Giroux will be long gone, likely Zub, Batherson, Chabot & Tkachuk. Korpisalo hopefully not haunting us with his nightmare play by then and off the team.

 

[flyingfingers]

Does our world CHANGE tonight when our COLD BALL comes up #1 OA ? We be Cellebreening mon!

It'll be awesome. Green will get right to work planning how much he's going to bag skate Celebrini and drawing up diagrams of where he wants him to dump the puck in from.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The “read between the lines” crowd suddenly doesn’t want to read between the lines