Player Discussion Auston Matthews Discussion

[ER89]

Ok I’ll put names to what we will get for Mitch’s 11 million, any 2 of Bertuzzi, Brodie and Klingberg. Which 2 do you want? / lol

okay ill put a few names:

necas, stephenson, domi, montour, roy, skjei.

 

[Confucius]

okay ill put a few names:

necas, stephenson, domi, montour, roy, skjei.

I’ll give you Domi but the other guys never played for the Leafs.

 

[ER89]

I’ll give you Domi but the other guys never played for the Leafs.

gotcha didnt know that was the premise sorry

 

[Martin Skoula]

The Marner debate boils down to the fact that he needs the puck on his stick to bring a non-zero amount of value, his off-puck skillset is irrelevant offensively. He doesn’t pull defenders to cover his shot and he doesn’t have the speed to back D off and create lanes and chaos, his netfront game is nonexistent and he’s a mediocre at best option as a bumper or in the slot. If he’s not the primary puck carrier when he’s on the ice, it’s impossible to get his cap hit’s worth of value out of him. When he is the primary puck carrier in the playoffs, our game is completely dependent on him being confident, and he has proven to be one of the easiest players to get off his game in the league. I can’t see a scenario where we play Berube’s game without Marner needing to completely reinvent himself, we either change our game away from having a guy holding and quarterbacking from the point or we run back the same game we play now with minor changes.

Whatever team he gets airdropped to short of Chicago already has their own system and go-to guys with the puck, he can be a secondary guy with less pressure on him to be everything all the time for the team and I’m sure it’ll work out great for them.

 

[Stephen]

The Marner debate boils down to the fact that he needs the puck on his stick to bring a non-zero amount of value, his off-puck skillset is irrelevant offensively. He doesn’t pull defenders to cover his shot and he doesn’t have the speed to back D off and create lanes and chaos, his netfront game is nonexistent and he’s a mediocre at best option as a bumper or in the slot. If he’s not the primary puck carrier when he’s on the ice, it’s impossible to get his cap hit’s worth of value out of him. When he is the primary puck carrier in the playoffs, our game is completely dependent on him being confident, and he has proven to be one of the easiest players to get off his game in the league. I can’t see a scenario where we play Berube’s game without Marner needing to completely reinvent himself, we either change our game away from having a guy holding and quarterbacking from the point or we run back the same game we play now with minor changes.

Whatever team he gets airdropped to short of Chicago already has their own system and go-to guys with the puck, he can be a secondary guy with less pressure on him to be everything all the time for the team and I’m sure it’ll work out great for them.

Well said. In order for a Marner unit to function with Marner delivering "full value," Marner has to be the puck transporter doing creative things with the puck. But in doing so, in using an Auston Matthews on that type of line, you atrophy Matthews game to something like a Steven Stamkos trigger man. Which negates the value of having the elite drive train center with franchise player size moving north.

Marner should fall back to a secondary role on any team. He shouldn't wear a letter, be counted on in leadership or have to carry the franchise player responsibilities, because he's simply proven to be poor at it over 8 years in big games. That said, that salary and overinflated self valuation needs to come down too. Is he an Aho level player? Is he Brayden Point? Who knows, but he shouldn't be living in Nathan Mackinnon's neighborhood. He shouldn't even be living in Auston Matthews neighborhood.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

You lost me here. We don't have any of that going on here, so this seems like a very useless discussion point.

Cheering to bring back a core that's failed 8 years in a row, yeah your guys' heads are level with something, that's for sure.

You want to trade Marner for some flash in the pan Belesky losers.

The Leafs tried that with David Bolland and he sucked.

Should the Leafs try to get a Nick Paul too?

Chase this fool's gold is like a trope of stupid GM moves. Each let's give the superstar all star away by trade or to open up the cap space for some character guys with 'good sticks'

Understand the point yet?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

You want to trade Marner for some flash in the pan Belesky losers.

The Leafs tried that with David Bolland and he sucked.

Should the Leafs try to get a Nick Paul too?

Chase this fool's gold is like a trope of stupid GM moves. Each let's give the superstar all star away by trade or to open up the cap space for some character guys with 'good sticks'

Understand the point yet?

 

[ToneDog]

The Marner debate boils down to the fact that he needs the puck on his stick to bring a non-zero amount of value, his off-puck skillset is irrelevant offensively. He doesn’t pull defenders to cover his shot and he doesn’t have the speed to back D off and create lanes and chaos, his netfront game is nonexistent and he’s a mediocre at best option as a bumper or in the slot. If he’s not the primary puck carrier when he’s on the ice, it’s impossible to get his cap hit’s worth of value out of him. When he is the primary puck carrier in the playoffs, our game is completely dependent on him being confident, and he has proven to be one of the easiest players to get off his game in the league. I can’t see a scenario where we play Berube’s game without Marner needing to completely reinvent himself, we either change our game away from having a guy holding and quarterbacking from the point or we run back the same game we play now with minor changes.

Whatever team he gets airdropped to short of Chicago already has their own system and go-to guys with the puck, he can be a secondary guy with less pressure on him to be everything all the time for the team and I’m sure it’ll work out great for them.

This is one of your best posts and should be in the Marner thread.

 

[LeafGrief]

You want to trade Marner for some flash in the pan Belesky losers.

The Leafs tried that with David Bolland and he sucked.

Should the Leafs try to get a Nick Paul too?

Chase this fool's gold is like a trope of stupid GM moves. Each let's give the superstar all star away by trade or to open up the cap space for some character guys with 'good sticks'

Understand the point yet?

My dude, I think we all understand the point, it's just that plenty of us disagree with it. I'd trade Marner for a literal bag of pucks, shitty ones that were lost in the woods behind Jimmy's house for the last six years, dirt still on them.

It has nothing to do with fool's gold, it has everything with wanting the Marner gone. This is a breakup, this is a bad relationship being kicked to the curb. Sure, the next relationship might not be great either, but this one has run its course and needs to be over for the sake of everyone. That we might get any of our stuff back in the breakup is pure bonus, the real benefit is that Marner LEAVES. Trying to "asset manage" during a breakup is how you lose sight of the forest for the trees, when what we really need is someone in that forest looking for pucks.

 

[LeafGrief]

As for Matthews, part of the retool is giving him the C next year. You make that much money, win all the awards, and are the #1C? It's your team whether you want it or not, the boys on the bench are looking at you whether you want it or not. It's time to buy-in, Matty.

I don't believe that Matthews is a dud. I think if you get him away from the emotional vampire that Marner is, he'll perform. 4 goals in 6 against Washington, 5g in 7 against Boston #2, 4g in 7 against Tampa #1. He's had his share of dogshit series, make no mistake he deserves plenty of blame for his performance and our failures, but I still think he's a gamer that we can win with. But he needs to fully understand and embrace that he is the guy now. No more sharing an A with Marner, no more thoughts about Marner's ego, or Tavares's, or any of that shit. Put the C on, snipe 50, and then take the ice in game 1 next year as the rightful Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs and take the bull by the horns.

 

[IPS]

The Marner debate boils down to the fact that he needs the puck on his stick to bring a non-zero amount of value, his off-puck skillset is irrelevant offensively. He doesn’t pull defenders to cover his shot and he doesn’t have the speed to back D off and create lanes and chaos, his netfront game is nonexistent and he’s a mediocre at best option as a bumper or in the slot. If he’s not the primary puck carrier when he’s on the ice, it’s impossible to get his cap hit’s worth of value out of him. When he is the primary puck carrier in the playoffs, our game is completely dependent on him being confident, and he has proven to be one of the easiest players to get off his game in the league. I can’t see a scenario where we play Berube’s game without Marner needing to completely reinvent himself, we either change our game away from having a guy holding and quarterbacking from the point or we run back the same game we play now with minor changes.

Whatever team he gets airdropped to short of Chicago already has their own system and go-to guys with the puck, he can be a secondary guy with less pressure on him to be everything all the time for the team and I’m sure it’ll work out great for them.

Good assessment, close off the neutral zone and force Mitch dump and chase and you've officially shut his offense down that way. And as you referenced as well, his net-front threat and shooting threat from the dangerous areas are very sub-par.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

My dude, I think we all understand the point, it's just that plenty of us disagree with it. I'd trade Marner for a literal bag of pucks, shitty ones that were lost in the woods behind Jimmy's house for the last six years, dirt still on them.

It has nothing to do with fool's gold, it has everything with wanting the Marner gone. This is a breakup, this is a bad relationship being kicked to the curb. Sure, the next relationship might not be great either, but this one has run its course and needs to be over for the sake of everyone. That we might get any of our stuff back in the breakup is pure bonus, the real benefit is that Marner LEAVES. Trying to "asset manage" during a breakup is how you lose sight of the forest for the trees, when what we really need is someone in that forest looking for pucks.

Hey babyshark, buyers remorse incoming like when we traded Kadri for Tyson Barrie and Alex Kerfoot because 'we had to, he got suspended twice' how did he look for the Avs?

If you'd rather date fat girls than stick with a dime? My dude, you're on another planet. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Hey babyshark, buyers remorse incoming like when we traded Kadri for Tyson Barrie and Alex Kerfoot because 'we had to, he got suspended twice' how did he look for the Avs?

If you'd rather date fat girls than stick with a dime? My dude, you're on another planet. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[LeafGrief]

Hey babyshark, buyers remorse incoming like when we traded Kadri for Tyson Barrie and Alex Kerfoot because 'we had to, he got suspended twice' how did he look for the Avs?

If you'd rather date fat girls than stick with a dime? My dude, you're on another planet. Stupid is as stupid does.

Dude so down bad he’d rather stick with a hot chick who makes him miserable than just be single for five minutes. You think she’s gonna just change her mind one day?

The point of the Leafs isn’t to have the best players, it’s to have the best team. That dime ain’t a dime in the playoffs, I dare say. She’s supposed to make you happy, not make your friends think you’ve got pull.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Dude so down bad he’d rather stick with a hot chick who makes him miserable than just be single for five minutes. You think she’s gonna just change her mind one day?

The point of the Leafs isn’t to have the best players, it’s to have the best team. That dime ain’t a dime in the playoffs, I dare say. She’s supposed to make you happy, not make your friends think you’ve got pull.

His "dime" is terrible when it's time to "get busy".

 

[Antropovsky]

Matthews, engages in board battles, he throws hits, he goes to the net, he takes alot of shots from the slot. He's a good linemate.

If your linemate (Marner):
- doesn't go to the front of the net to tip shots or provide screens. You will suffer.
- If your linemate doesn't win puck battles, or outright chooses not to do it. You will suffer
- if your linemate shoots 40' from the net on average. You will suffer.

Both of these plays should have been on favor of Leafs keeping posession, or at least a 50/50 chance. Instead it became 0% because Marner said, naa I'm good it's all yours!

This is evidence of Marners linemates offensive production suffering at the hands of Marner.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

Dude so down bad he’d rather stick with a hot chick who makes him miserable than just be single for five minutes. You think she’s gonna just change her mind one day?

The point of the Leafs isn’t to have the best players, it’s to have the best team. That dime ain’t a dime in the playoffs, I dare say. She’s supposed to make you happy, not make your friends think you’ve got pull.

You literally just said trade all star for character guys.....

Joe Thorton trade work out for Boston?

 

[LeafGrief]

You literally just said trade all star for character guys.....

Joe Thorton trade work out for Boston?

No, I said I’d trade him for a bag of pucks. He’s at the side of the road with a free sign on him, character guys coming back are a bonus. The argument isn’t to trade talent for character, the argument is that Mitch Marner, the individual player, has gotta go regardless of return.

Interesting comparison. The Bruins won one series in seven seasons while Thronton was with them, but won the cup five years after trading him. I’ll go with yes, that trade was splendid.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

You literally just said trade all star for character guys.....

Joe Thorton trade work out for Boston?