Frederik Andersen in playoff elimination games

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Old picture but this is Freddy Andersen’s career in a nutshell. He did it in Anaheim, the Leafs and now Carolina for years. The Leafs did the right choice moving on from him. He is a playoff chocker and the pressure gets to him when closing series or elimination games.

Seeing as they had Campbell and Samsonov after Freddie, did they make the right choice?

 

[PaulD]

I can’t believe I’m the guy posting this, but: can’t someone credit the Rangers with stepping up big time when things looked dire?

Why does it have to be Freddy’s fault, or Orlov’s, or whatever? I’m not saying they played great in the 3rd, but still the Rangers did seize the moment, didn’t they?

Rangers have been credited. On lots of threads. But the title of this thread about the Hurricanes goalie.
Rangers were great sure. Does not absolve Freddy .
Shesterkin was great and gave away nothing.
Freddy and his fans can't say same.
Bet your house Freddy is not a starter for Canes in next years play offs.
He is a really good goalie , but not a fit for a team with serious Cup aspirations
Anderson more suited for a non play off team.

 

[Levitate]

Rangers have been credited. On lots of threads. But the title of this thread about the Hurricanes goalie.
Rangers were great sure. Does not absolve Freddy .
Shesterkin was great and gave away nothing.
Freddy and his fans can't say same.
Bet your house Freddy is not a starter for Canes in next years play offs.
He is a really good goalie , but not a fit for a team with serious Cup aspirations
Anderson more suited for a non play off team.

I dunno, teams have won the cup with a goaltender just catching on at the right time. Anderson is in that group of "could do it" and people have been barking about money pucking goalies for awhile now instead of paying elite goalies.

When you've got the 1-2 teams in the east facing off against each other though you need that money puck goalie to be on it and Anderson wasn't quite there. I'm not sure PK would have been either though, it's not like he looked superb against the Rangers either.

It's such a fine line, especially in the playoffs

 

[TheNumber4]

Carolina was sold damaged goods. Freddy was never going to rebound after being mentally thrashed by the Toronto market. Same thing that the Oilers should have realized with Jack Campbell. Toronto is where goalies go to die. How many “starters” have they cycled through in the Matthews era now? 16?

 

[PaulD]

I dunno, teams have won the cup with a goaltender just catching on at the right time. Anderson is in that group of "could do it" and people have been barking about money pucking goalies for awhile now instead of paying elite goalies.

When you've got the 1-2 teams in the east facing off against each other though you need that money puck goalie to be on it and Anderson wasn't quite there. I'm not sure PK would have been either though, it's not like he looked superb against the Rangers either.

It's such a fine line, especially in the playoffs

Nah. Hill did it his first season
So did Binnington.
Murray.
Cam Ward.
Pat Roy.
Keb Dryden.

Seems they just needed a chance.


Not many are given chance after chance after chance with different teams then all if a sudden pull it off.
We know what Freddy is.......perhaps more importantly we know what Freddy isn't.
Holtby and the Caps come to mind though.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Andersen cannot be absolved of all blame because of goal 2 but Orlov is the main guy I would blame. Directly responsible for one and partly responsible for a second whereas Andersen is "only" responsible for one. As a GM I wouldn't allow a goal like the first from from a depth player so I would get rid of Orlov but I guess in the real world with his contract he's pretty untradeable. Even at 50% retained he's overpaid in a world where you can have someone simple and reliable like McNabb, Dumoulin, Zadorov for less instead of a saboteur. I doubt Dundon would allow them to trade a 5'11" dman though. It's too bad too because the way they're built there is no reason for them to even have Orlov who just undoes their strategy instead of one of those guys. They would've been better off offering that massive contract to Dumoulin who was also a UFA, probably headed to game 7.

Dumoulin hasn't been good in like 4 years. He's reliable as in he will reliably be a detriment offensively.

 

[Bleedred]

I can’t believe I’m the guy posting this, but: can’t someone credit the Rangers with stepping up big time when things looked dire?

Why does it have to be Freddy’s fault, or Orlov’s, or whatever? I’m not saying they played great in the 3rd, but still the Rangers did seize the moment, didn’t they?

Let's especially give Shesterkin credit

For not letting in the bullshit goals that Andersen allowed in that game or series in general.

Yes, they did hit a bunch of posts on him (I know someone will bring that up) in that game, but I can think of at least two missed open nets for the Rangers on Andersen that became nothing in that game.

Shesterkin was the better goalie all series long. He didn't give up the CHEAP goals that Andersen was giving up even in the games he won.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

He was pretty bad for the Ducks and Leafs when it mattered.

Not sure what the hurricanes were expecting. He's good enough in the reg season but hes not someone who should be relied on in the playoffs.

 

[pld459666]

I can’t believe I’m the guy posting this, but: can’t someone credit the Rangers with stepping up big time when things looked dire?

Why does it have to be Freddy’s fault, or Orlov’s, or whatever? I’m not saying they played great in the 3rd, but still the Rangers did seize the moment, didn’t they?

Well, it is the New York Rangers. The team barely gets any credit when they win.

It always has to be more wjat the other team is or what the other team didn't do. Hardly ever about what the Rangers did.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Nah. Hill did it his first season
So did Binnington.
Murray.
Cam Ward.
Pat Roy.
Keb Dryden.

Seems they just needed a chance.


Not many are given chance after chance after chance with different teams then all if a sudden pull it off.
We know what Freddy is.......perhaps more importantly we know what Freddy isn't.
Holtby and the Caps come to mind though.

Now post the list of young goalies who were given a chance to make their mark and did nothing with it.

I’ll start:
Nedeljkovic
Kochetkov

It was when that strategy failed that the Canes went out and acquired Andersen, who is still probably the best goalie to hit the market since they went shopping. It’s not like Shesterkin and Hellebucyk are out there looking for work.

Goalies who were given chance after chance? I recall Ed Belfour and, of all people, Dominik Hasek being questioned as to whether they could get it done in the big game.

 

[Chrispy]

Now post the list of young goalies who were given a chance to make their mark and did nothing with it.

I’ll start:
Nedeljkovic
Kochetkov

It was when that strategy failed that the Canes went out and acquired Andersen, who is still probably the best goalie to hit the market since they went shopping. It’s not like Shesterkin and Hellebucyk are out there looking for work.

Goalies who were given chance after chance? I recall Ed Belfour and, of all people, Dominik Hasek being questioned as to whether they could get it done in the big game.

Considering Carolina made an offer to him, I think you can argue Markstrom in 2020. Of course, that was also before Carolina had even attempted Nedeljkovic or Kochetkov (Ned got his shot due to injury in 20-21.)

Stats were comparable in 21-22 but Andersen did it behind a superior defensive team. Andersen was better in 22-23 and 23-24 when he played, which wasn't often (50 regular season games over those 2 seasons.)

But otherwise, you are correct that there haven't been superior goalies on the market. I'm sure some would argue Kuemper in 2022 because he has a ring, but he hasn't looked the same in Washington.

So now you get to the philosophical question of whether you give up significant assets to trade for a goalie? Based on what has been available, I don't see many options.

If you go back on these forums, many criticisms of Carolina's goaltending in 2020 and 2021 argued they should trade for Andersen!

 

[noncents]

Well, it is the New York Rangers. The team barely gets any credit when they win.

It always has to be more wjat the other team is or what the other team didn't do. Hardly ever about what the Rangers did.

truth. they never actually win, every other team magically loses

 

[tarheelhockey]

Dude already answered you. A seasoned tender if he can't find the puck but knows it's on his skate, you hold the post. You don't try to cover when youre not even sure where the puck is.

Of course he wants to hold the post there. That’s common sense, surely you don’t think he doesn’t know to hold his post?

But he also can’t just stand there with the puck on his skate waiting for something to happen, and his balance has already started to move blocker-side (because that should have been the only possible dangerous area as the entire rest of the offensive zone should have been marked by defenders). Something has to give, he can’t stand still while also pivoting back to hold that post.

My stopwatch gives Andersen around 0.8 seconds from the time the puck hits his skate till Kreider gets a stick on it. Commonly accepted NHL goalie reaction time is about 0.25 seconds, leaving him right around 1/2 a second to re-cover the post before the goal can be scored. That’s not realistically achievable. You can see him assess that he can’t get there and get his glove down, at least creating the opportunity for a save, but the puck found a hole.

It's Kochetkov's time. At least he can track the puck, glide post to post. It's time for the 24 yr old with a high ceiling to start. Not the Maple Leafs garbage.

Kochetkov is also prone to soft, weird goals. It would be the same complaints about him, about any goalie really. Look at how Sorokin got ripped for losing his series. Goalies take way too much of the heat for team inadequacies in general, but especially for individual moments in playoff games where other key moments are instantly forgotten — such as Svechnikov misfiring on a glorious opportunity to tie.

It's baffling why you supposed fans can't see what is painfully obvious. I want to win the Cup, not be humiliated every season. Apparently some of you are ok with being humiliated, or just have problems facing the reality of the situation on both fronts.

Sorry if the truth hurts some feels up in here. Have a good night.

If you feel humiliated by watching other people play sports, why do it?

 

[JianYang]

Unless the goalie is a direct cause of playoff losses.... meaning he's allowing goals where he's not being hung out to dry, then I don't think the team has a goalie issue.

Teams have won cups multiple times in the past decade with unheralded goalies, and while I don't think andersen is top tier, he's still a bigger brand than some of those cup winning goalies. Also, Carolina is built in a way where they wouldn't ask their goalie to be superman, so he's certainly capable to do the job for this particular team.

 

[PaulD]

Now post the list of young goalies who were given a chance to make their mark and did nothing with it.

I’ll start:
Nedeljkovic
Kochetkov

It was when that strategy failed that the Canes went out and acquired Andersen, who is still probably the best goalie to hit the market since they went shopping. It’s not like Shesterkin and Hellebucyk are out there looking for work.

Goalies who were given chance after chance? I recall Ed Belfour and, of all people, Dominik Hasek being questioned as to whether they could get it done in the big game.
[/QUOTE
I hear ya. And I would have agreed with you as Freddy landed in Carolina.
Now rhat he did the exact same thing with keafs against Caps and Bruins .....it's sho he is. If you gave a true contender, gamblingbon Freddy to go four rounds mistake. Plain and simple.
Bet your house he is not starting in game 83 in Carolina next season.

 

[StrmSurge]

Of course he wants to hold the post there. That’s common sense, surely you don’t think he doesn’t know to hold his post?

But he also can’t just stand there with the puck on his skate waiting for something to happen, and his balance has already started to move blocker-side (because that should have been the only possible dangerous area as the entire rest of the offensive zone should have been marked by defenders). Something has to give, he can’t stand still while also pivoting back to hold that post.

My stopwatch gives Andersen around 0.8 seconds from the time the puck hits his skate till Kreider gets a stick on it. Commonly accepted NHL goalie reaction time is about 0.25 seconds, leaving him right around 1/2 a second to re-cover the post before the goal can be scored. That’s not realistically achievable. You can see him assess that he can’t get there and get his glove down, at least creating the opportunity for a save, but the puck found a hole.




Kochetkov is also prone to soft, weird goals. It would be the same complaints about him, about any goalie really. Look at how Sorokin got ripped for losing his series. Goalies take way too much of the heat for team inadequacies in general, but especially for individual moments in playoff games where other key moments are instantly forgotten — such as Svechnikov misfiring on a glorious opportunity to tie.



If you feel humiliated by watching other people play sports, why do it?

Bobrovski did well in proving me right with great goal-tending but had great defense (Canes only had 1 of these things )

Maybe in reg season Koch isn't better than Anderson, and in my personal opinion the 24 yr old big Russian moves in the crease well, has the necessary skills , perfect time to let a young prospect have his chance that he has all the necessary tools and his reg season G.AA also represented that this season.

RBA is just a coward to make even minor adjustments is bad enough but blaming game 4 loss on Koch? I will take down 2 goals for the rags all day cause id expect the canes3 or 4 .

Regardless , no one can say Freddy had even remotely adequate series. His defensive help did their jobs for the most part still after after being -down Pesce.

Youre right it's easy to say the back up tender will would do better but I don't think anyone would agree Kochetkov didn't deserve to be replaced after game loss.

Compared to what Freddy did this series Koch had a great game 4 even in a L.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Bobrovski did well in proving me right with great goal-tending but had great defense (Canes only had 1 of these things )

Maybe in reg season Koch isn't better than Anderson, and in my personal opinion the 24 yr old big Russian moves in the crease well, has the necessary skills , perfect time to let a young prospect have his chance that he has all the necessary tools and his reg season G.AA also represented that this season.

RBA is just a coward to make even minor adjustments is bad enough but blaming game 4 loss on Koch? I will take down 2 goals for the rags all day cause id expect the canes3 or 4 .

Regardless , no one can say Freddy had even remotely adequate series. His defensive help did their jobs for the most part still after after being -down Pesce.

Youre right it's easy to say the back up tender will would do better but I don't think anyone would agree Kochetkov didn't deserve to be replaced after game loss.

Compared to what Freddy did this series Koch had a great game 4 even in a L.

Kochetkov has a career playoff save% of .863

Andersen, who gets pilloried for his playoff performances, has a career .914

There are zero timelines where ANY coach decides Kochetkov is the man for a playoff run in a Cup contention window. That’s putting your chips on the Michael Leighton path to success, hoping that the universe randomly inverts itself for a few weeks.

 

[Whalers Fan]

For that matter, this is the second round of the playoffs. He won the elimination game in the first round, which is how we got here.

The Hurricanes won their first round series 4 games to 1. They never played a game where they could be eliminated in that round.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The Hurricanes won their first round series 4 games to 1. They never played a game where they could be eliminated in that round.

“Elimination game” goes both ways unless specified otherwise.

Counting a goalie’s record in games where only his team can be eliminated is naturally going to turn up a lot of Ls. A team on the verge of elimination has not done very well against its opponent, by definition.

 

[Whalers Fan]

“Elimination game” goes both ways unless specified otherwise.

Counting a goalie’s record in games where only his team can be eliminated is naturally going to turn up a lot of Ls. A team on the verge of elimination has not done very well against its opponent, by definition.

Sorry, but elimination games does in fact only refer to games in which one's own team can be eliminated. The graphic shown for Andersen as being 0-8 in such games before this season meant exactly that.

Games in which only a team's opponent can be eliminated are considered potential series clinching games. A Game 7 would be both an elimination and potential series clinching game.

In 2015, Andersen was the goalie of record for Anaheim when they went to the conference finals, going 2-0 in series clinching games the first two rounds, and 0-1 in elimination games in the conference finals. In 2023, he was the goalie of record for Carolina when they won in the first round, going 1-0 in series clinching games (first round), and 0-1 in elimination games (2nd round).

 

[Gorskyontario]

Leafs seem jealous Andersen has won more series in his career than their franchise.