WC: Poland 2024 roster talk.

aquaregia

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I'm not predicting the eventual showing, just purely looking at the rosters on paper. I'd easily take that Korea roster over Poland due to six Canadians on their roster.
Hmm, in that case it's probably close, maybe the better Korean imports would be above Poland's top players but the back half of Korea's roster even back then was D1B-tier, Today's Poland are more consistent in quality, and their import goalie is of a similar standard to Dalton was back then.
 

ozo

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Hmm, in that case it's probably close, maybe the better Korean imports would be above Poland's top players but the back half of Korea's roster even back then was D1B-tier, Today's Poland are more consistent in quality, and their import goalie is of a similar standard to Dalton was back then.
This all comes down to the main talking point of this thread - how good actually are these aging Polish league players?
 
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Namejs

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This all comes down to the main talking point of this thread - how good actually are these aging Polish league players?
We will see that tomorrow.

Historically, a defensively minded Latvian team with key players missing would not be able to steamroll even the weakest of Elite division teams like, say, Italy.

If Poland can keep it within 2-3 goals, there's no way they're the weakest ever.
 
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SoundAndFury

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Today's Poland are more consistent in quality, and their import goalie is of a similar standard to Dalton was back then.
Whoah, pump the brakes. Dalton was a solid KHL goalie, Murray went to Poland because he couldn't cut it in the ECHL. If you compare their salaries in their prime, Dalton's was probably almost 10 times higher. If they are "of a similar standard" then it's only because standard doesn't mean anything.

Dalton and Switf were unquestionably much better than anything Poland can bring, I assume thay's a huge part of the argument why Korean team wasn't the worst.
 
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BigBadBoar

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Final roster

Bramkarze:
Tomas Fucik (GKS Tychy), John Murray (GKS Katowice), David Zabolotny(EHC Freiburg, DEL2)

Obrońcy:Mateusz Bryk, Bartosz Ciura (obaj GKS Tychy), Paweł Dronia(Ravensburg Towerstars, DEL2), Kamil Górny, Marcin Kolusz, ArkadiuszKostek, Patryk Wajda (wszyscy JKH GKS Jastrzębie), Maciej Kruczek,Jakub Wanacki (obaj GKS Katowice)

Napastnicy:Krystian Dziubiński (Re-PlastUnia Oświęcim), Patryk Krężołek (Zagłębie Sosnowiec), AlanŁyszczarczyk, Filip Komorski (obaj GKS Tychy), Krzysztof Maciaś(Prince Albert Raiders, WHL), Bartosz Fraszko, Mateusz Michalski,Grzegorz Pasiut (wszyscy GKS Katowice), Dominik Paś, MaciejUrbanowicz (wszyscy JKH GKS Jastrzębie), Kamil Wałęga (HC OcelariTrinec, ekstraliga Czechy), Patryk Wronka (Podhale Nowy Targ), PawełZygmunt (HC Litvinov, ekstraliga Czechy)
Chmielewski is injured or didn't make the roster?
 
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BigBadBoar

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he is healthy, but completely unprepared physically. even during short shifts, he breathes as if he were in a pre-fainting state and struggles to return to the bench. his individual performances, often unsuccessful, could only happen when Aron was in a good shape and in the rhythm of the game. one bad look/turnover in return for five good individual efforts its still a fair deal. now he is out of shape, physically unprepared, and there's another factor that may or may not have significance - it's just my speculation. anyone who has had the opportunity to be close to the national team or knows people who are close to the national team (which is not difficult in a country where hockey is not very popular) knows that Chmielewski has never been, is not, and will never be liked by his teammates. he's a very specific guy with a big ego, whose success (playing in Czech Extraliga for a Pole is a success regardless of the circumstances) made him start behaving among his teammates as if he had just returned from the Stanley Cup finals after scoring a hat-trick on Shesterkin in game 7. and 90% of our NT are just regular guys who simply want to have a good time doing what they enjoy, not necessarily in the company of someone very presuming. i'll keep the exact comments of some of the guys from the team that i met in one of the Krakow bars to myself, but i can assure you that unlike their words, my comment about Chmielewski is very, very polite and controversy-free

E: final decision is tomorrow tho, after the game against Denmark, so we'll see
He has always been kind of popular in Czechia, regarded as a quality player. But if he started acting cocky among his national team mates, then it was reasonable to cut him.
 

aquaregia

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Whoah, pump the brakes. Dalton was a solid KHL goalie, Murray went to Poland because he couldn't cut it in the ECHL. If you compare their salaries in their prime, Dalton's was probably almost 10 times higher. If they are "of a similar standard" then it's only because standard doesn't mean anything.
Ye fair enough if we're comparing club careers; every time I have seen him turn out for Poland though he's stood out as a real difference maker, I consider him their most important player over the past 5 or so years, and I think his save ratio over that period backs that up.
 
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ozo

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Ye fair enough if we're comparing club careers; every time I have seen him turn out for Poland though he's stood out as a real difference maker, I consider him their most important player over the past 5 or so years, and I think his save ratio over that period backs that up.
That is my exact sentiment about most lower level international teams. If you can chose one single foreigner to add, most teams should pick goalies because they more often than not is the difference when going gets tough.
 
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SoundAndFury

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Ye fair enough if we're comparing club careers; every time I have seen him turn out for Poland though he's stood out as a real difference maker, I consider him their most important player over the past 5 or so years, and I think his save ratio over that period backs that up.
While you have a case, it also has to be noted Poland achieved the same, or even slightly better if we want to be picky, results during the Odrobny era. Murray only became so impactful because Poland has developed barely any professional goalies over the last 20 years. Otherwise, they were doing fine with a pretty bottom-of-the-barrel by European pro hockey standards goalie and had a handful of those to choose from Odrobny being the best of the pack most year but Kosowski and Rasziszewski with some strong performances as well.

Korea, on the other hand, was D1B nation before Dalton and, even under the current circumstances, got relegated to D1B very first year without him. While it's unclear how Korea would look with a lesser pro goalie the fact remains that they do not have, nor have they ever had a goalie who would get them even close to the level Dalton did.

Poland, meanwhile, if they were forced to play Zabolotny, how much worse would they really get? I'd wager still a D1A contender.
 
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aquaregia

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Mmm, but as you also say it's not just Dalton but players like Swift, Plante, Young, Radunske, and some of their better homegrown players (Kims Sang-wook and Ki-sung come to mind) getting old and declining that has seen them slip back down. A D1B baseline as I said with some exceptions that on their day can elevate them a level or two; Poland's baseline being more D1A.

Take your point about Odrobny/Zabolotny being lesser steps down from Murray (than any homegrown Korean to Dalton), and would expect Zabolotny to be taking the starting spot sooner or later, will be interesting to see how he does when he gets the chance to play a full WC campaign anyway.
 
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SoundAndFury

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would expect Zabolotny to be taking the starting spot sooner or later, will be interesting to see how he does when he gets the chance to play a full WC campaign anyway.
Considering Fucik is the same age as him I highly doubt it. Don't know how it is on this very day but in the longer run he will obviously edge out Zabolotny who has never been a starter at the level higher than the German Oberliga and, one could argue, has never had a really strong season as a starting goalie his entire career.
 
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Hanji

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Meh, they're no worse than the Great Britain's, Italy's, Hungary's, etc. of recent years who played in the Elite. In 2019 Italy gave up 48 goals and somehow stayed up.

On paper Poland is considerably worse than GB, Italy and Hungary. They're here because they played the tournament of their lives to earn promotion last year.

I don't expect 15-1 blowouts. Opponents will let up, or just not show their best.
I envision something similar to Korea's performance in 2018.
 
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SoundAndFury

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On paper Poland is considerably worse than GB, Italy and Hungary. They're here because they played the tournament of their lives to earn promotion last year.
Why? What backs up this blanket statement?

In the last 10 Italy - Poland games Italy won 5 and Poland won 5. Hungary has actually lost all 5 of their last 5 against Poland although those were all friendlies but still. Same with GB, while they have an edge in the past results, on paper GB is only considerably better if you think EIHL is considerably better than the Polish league. Which it isn't.

So it's interesting what method of evaluation was there to come up with such a conclusion. Because it's a peculiar take to say Poland had to play the tournament of their lives to beat the teams they do beat routinely.
 

aonb

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Why? What backs up this blanket statement?

In the last 10 Italy - Poland games Italy won 5 and Poland won 5. Hungary has actually lost all 5 of their last 5 against Poland although those were all friendlies but still. Same with GB, while they have an edge in the past results, on paper GB is only considerably better if you think EIHL is considerably better than the Polish league. Which it isn't.

So it's interesting what method of evaluation was there to come up with such a conclusion. Because it's a peculiar take to say Poland had to play the tournament of their lives to beat the teams they do beat routinely.
yeah, while i am the foremost critic of polish hockey (or rather the complete lack of a plan for the development of this sport discipline), saying that we played the tournament of our lives to advance is a slight exaggeration. we simply won an important 50/50 match against Italy, won matches against teams we almost always beat, and that's it
 

legionista

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On paper Poland is considerably worse than GB, Italy and Hungary. They're here because they played the tournament of their lives to earn promotion last year.

I don't expect 15-1 blowouts. Opponents will let up, or just not show their best.
I envision something similar to Korea's performance in 2018.
Don't agree with that at all and I think most people won't. Like SoundandFury said, recent results support they are more or less on the same level with all four teams having slightly different strengths and weaknesses from each other.
 
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BigBadBoar

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He was injured for most of the season, came back towards the end but didn't play much.
I think the real reason why he's out is being kept as a bit of a secret, some think he's still not in form after injury, others think it's more nefarious (coach-player relations).
As I said, Czech Extraliga fans know about his qualities as a player, but of course the relations between the players (and the coaching staff) are always a very important factor.
 
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aonb

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Why is it unlikely that Sweden could do double digits? Sweden won over USA with 5-2.
do you have some kind of split personality? one day you say that Poland is on the same level as Sweden and the match will be 50/50, and now you're saying that Sweden is capable of scoring 10 goals. take your medication or something because its kinda weird
 
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Eye of Ra

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do you have some kind of split personality? one day you say that Poland is on the same level as Sweden and the match will be 50/50, and now you're saying that Sweden is capable of winning by at least 10 goals. take your medication or something because its kinda weird
becuse i was unsure before. but the game vs USA showed how good we are.
 
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