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Cyclones Rock

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Jun 12, 2008
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I have decided that firing the front office is insufficient.

I want to see Laine and Chinakhov as well as a few randomly picked CBJ fans shoot pucks at Mike Priest, Jarmo, and JD for a couple of minutes.
McConnell deserves a few well-aimed snipes as well, imo.
 

Nanabijou

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Dec 22, 2009
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Who are the candidates? I've been a Jarmo supporter but clearly the results this season so far, starting with the Babcock cluster****, make it impossible to see Jarmo being here next year. But, I'm not interested in hiring someone else that continues the cycle. I want to hear names - there has to be young bright minds out there ready to take the next step. And it's not Nash or Flynn.
 
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tunnelvision

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Jul 31, 2021
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Edit: Also, feel free to name GM candidates if you have any in mind.
Just throw the money bag at Eric Tulsky and name him President/GM like Dubas. Timing doesnt matter to me if you get him. He'll then decide what to do with coaching
Carolina's, Dallas's or Anaheim's scouting and analytics department would probably be one of my first places to search for replacements, just by judging their team construction and draft records in the past few years.

I don't know if for example Ducks assistant GM and director of amateur scouting Martin Madden would make a great GM, but I really like how they've drafted in '19, '21, '22 and '23.


Zegras, Lacombe, McTavish, Zellweger, Hinds, Mintyukov, Gaucher, Warren, Luneau, Carlsson, Sidorov and Dionicio (who I wanted Jackets to take this summer in later rounds) all look like great value picks.
 

koteka

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Carolina's, Dallas's or Anaheim's scouting and analytics department would probably be one of my first places to search for replacements, just by judging their team construction and draft records in the past few years.


I have liked the way Dallas and Carolina have constructed their teams as well. Anaheim looks to be on a good path. Boston has had sustained success. Those are teams I would look at.
 

JacketsDavid

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Jan 11, 2013
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Direction.
Hire a coach that fits the team you are building instead of asking players to mold to the coach's systems.
Dont neglect the importance of balance between skill/grit.
Dont consistently have a super young team trying to figure out how to win.
Dont make rush/panic moves.
Dont back RFAs that are your future into a corner and then overpay vets simply because they are vets

I dont expect results overnight but I do expect visible growth and improvement in pretty short order
But here's the thing (and I am agreeing with you) - you can hire coach's like that but if the front office is opportunstic rather than strategic it doesn't work.
For year's we've been gritty, heavy, hard to play against. That is likely who the CBJ are.
But if the front office is just trying to win trades and adding guys who are not gritty, heavy and hard to play against then it doesn't work.
If the front office knows we are defensive first but doesn't address goal tending then it doesn't work.

I fault ownership as much as management. Always looking for a quick patch. Now I get it our franchise is filled with young talent, but I have ZERO faith in the organ-I-zations ability to do anything with it.
 

EspenK

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Sep 25, 2011
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But here's the thing (and I am agreeing with you) - you can hire coach's like that but if the front office is opportunstic rather than strategic it doesn't work.
For year's we've been gritty, heavy, hard to play against. That is likely who the CBJ are.
But if the front office is just trying to win trades and adding guys who are not gritty, heavy and hard to play against then it doesn't work.
If the front office knows we are defensive first but doesn't address goal tending then it doesn't work.

I fault ownership as much as management. Always looking for a quick patch. Now I get it our franchise is filled with young talent, but I have ZERO faith in the organ-I-zations ability to do anything with it.
Being gritty, heavy and hard to play against was only true for a couple or three seasons. Other than that CBJ were just heavy and gritty.

Ownership (McConnell) has abdicated any interest (or so it appears) and relies on Priest to keep the finances in order. While a meddling owner is not good a completely divorced owner is likewise bad.

A new GM and President will have their hands full in fixing the Jackets.

First and foremost a very competent President should be hired followed by him hiring a like minded GM.. They need to define what kind of a team they want and then draft to fit that image. Trades and roster restructuring must be done with that vision in mind. And an honest assessment of the current roster and prospects must be done to determine who fits and who doesn't before any more "oh,look a shiny penny" (Gaudreau, Laine, etc ) show up on the availability meter.
 
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Crede777

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Dec 16, 2009
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As a reminder - Rick Nash (the perceived heir apparent to the GM role) was a major proponent of hiring Mike Babcock in the summer. Going back he's been a proponent of a few guys who haven't worked out. Anyone remember Aaron Johnson or Nash traveling to New Jersey to try to convince Jeff Carter to report?

If you want a GM who is less into the old boys' club and more into executing a scheme / vision... be prepared to be disappointed.
 

Indy18

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Aug 17, 2023
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As a reminder - Rick Nash (the perceived heir apparent to the GM role) was a major proponent of hiring Mike Babcock in the summer. Going back he's been a proponent of a few guys who haven't worked out. Anyone remember Aaron Johnson or Nash traveling to New Jersey to try to convince Jeff Carter to report?

If you want a GM who is less into the old boys' club and more into executing a scheme / vision... be prepared to be disappointed.
Pretty sure Nash isn't gonna be the GM because if he was it would had already been done.
 
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Michigan Magic

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Nov 3, 2023
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Wholesale changes are in order and it's going to be a process to turn this into a winning culture. This is why I was never much of a Cincinnati sports fan besides the Cyclones. It's sad to see it happening again. When I started watching hockey again. I never expected this team to be so garbage. Yet here we are. I feel bad for the day one fans if there are any left.
 

Cheddarcheese

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Oct 24, 2023
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would like to see them Hire Steve Ott or Patrick Roy as the coach. i know they didnt have many options with the firing at the start of the season but sad to hear PR was the runner up against babs
 

5th Line Fanatic

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Oct 2, 2020
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Ownership (McConnell) has abdicated any interest (or so it appears) and relies on Priest to keep the finances in order. While a meddling owner is not good a completely divorced owner is likewise bad.
I agree with the bulk of your post. I don't agree with this part. McConnell is exactly what I want out of an owner. He's shown willingness to spend what it takes. He has unwavering loyalty to the City and lets his hockey people run the hockey.

At the end of the 2021 season he made the decision to extend Jarmo and JD. They sold McConnell on a plan to be in the playoffs by 2024 and contending by 2025. He's basically written the checks and stayed out of their way. I appreciate that.

Now he's about to have another decision to make. I expect him to make it and then get out of the way again.
 
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Indy18

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I agree with the bulk of your post. I don't agree with this part. McConnell is exactly what I want out of an owner. He's shown willingness to spend what it takes. He has unwavering loyalty to the City and lets his hockey people run the hockey.

At the end of the 2021 season he made the decision to extend Jarmo and JD. They sold McConnell on a plan to be in the playoffs by 2024 and contending by 2025. He's basically written the checks and stayed out of their way. I appreciate that.

Now he's about to have another decision to make. I expect him to make it and then get out of the way again.
Now I have plenty of issues with Priest but with everyone out there wanting to get their pound of flesh to feel better saying fire all the coaches, front office, owners and move the team to KC I don't think people realize having a hands off owner is good. Do you wanna be the Browns and commit to a damaged QB with ungodly guaranteed money spite it not being in your organization's best interest because they said so? How would you like it if we had a Jerry Jones or Mark Cuban owner?
 
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JacketFanInFL

Brick by Brick
Mar 27, 2006
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Hiring the best and brightest at every position in the organization and not former fighters who want to learn on the job at the game's highest level.
 
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5th Line Fanatic

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I've been thinking about the original question posed in this thread for a couple of days. I can't answer it at the moment because I need more information.

The biggest question I have is how is JD evaluated by McConnell. With Jarmo it's pretty easy to look at signings, drafts, trades, etc. and come up with a system for evaluation. With the President position, I assume this is more difficult to quantify. I have no idea what kind of relationship JD and McConnell have or how McConnell views JD's performance. I assume McConnell feels it's necessary to have a knowledgeable elder statesman in this role, but I don't know that for sure.

If I'm McConnell I'd start by using every relationship I've made in the last 15 years in the NHL to get honest assessments of the past and present, before I start making decisions about the future. I'd want to know if JD is part of the problem or part of the solution. If he's part of the problem, I'd want to know who I am going to count on to give me good advice before I ever consider firing/hiring a new GM.
 

CBJx614

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would like to see them Hire Steve Ott or Patrick Roy as the coach. i know they didnt have many options with the firing at the start of the season but sad to hear PR was the runner up against babs
Honestly Roy would've been my first call after the Babcock situation, unless Roy had already said no.
 

cbjthrowaway

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Jul 4, 2020
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Seattle is playing like Carolina, it's a every-man-skate-hard system with a lot of dump and chase, soft skill guys really don't fit in that. It's the kind of system guys like Tex do well in. Some of our guys would be lost in it just as they are in Pazzy's grunt work style. I like where Vincent is going with it, I'm just saying Seattle isn't the example you're reaching for.

Again, early Vegas? They were playing more or less like the 2016-17 Jackets under Torts. A very heavy forecheck. Torts was all about D and F switching too, it's just a media construct where he is a dinosaur and whatever Vegas was doing was "modern".
the distinction here is between 'new school' systems/coaching and 'new school' roster building/management. that's not to say the jarmo-era jackets haven't embraced modern trends when it comes to drafting – because they have – but there's more to a front office than just that.

the jackets roster building has been modern at times, but has fallen victim to outdated thought process by way of being:
- overly broad (bring in a lot of young players, let the chips fall where they may),
- reactionary (we lacked X trait, better go get a guy who has it)
- overly-positional (defense was weak, go get more defensemen)
- overly fixated on building through the draft

successful modern front offices, on the other hand:
- are more strategic
- are more targeted
- build from the top down
- are bold to the point of almost being harsh
- focus on getting the best 'bite from the apple' with their assets
- don't care nearly as much about the draft

the last point there may be controversial but i believe that over-reliance on the draft has significantly hamstrung this organization, even if i like the way they draft overall.

teams like vegas and florida have historically eschewed the draft but still build value by either fixing depreciated assets + giving them ample opportunity or by filling the fringes of the lineup with limited but role-appropriate players, while also taking huge swings to add long-term core pieces (i.e. eichel + tkachuk trades).

florida in particular has moved a ton of picks/prospects (i.e. tippett, levi, etc) whose hypothetical value outweighed their on-ice value, only to backfill with unheralded or struggling players who then provided both immediate and future value (verhaeghe, forsling, montour, bennett, reinhart).

in practice, florida identifying carter verhaeghe and putting him in a position to succeed with ample opportunity made owen tippett expendable, which netted them giroux. but verhaeghe was also cheaper than tippett, more developed and significantly better.

as a process, this is both faster and, weirdly enough, safer than the draft because you are making more strategic decisions based on more data. you don't need to gamble and wait on players to develop, you embrace the meat market and find assets you can improve at a reduced cost.

why wait on a guy like chinakhov or sillinger to pop off when you can get similar/better value, sooner, at a lower price by finding a depreciated asset, and double dip by moving those two guys to bolster your roster/asset cache?
 
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Indy18

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Aug 17, 2023
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teams like vegas and florida have historically eschewed the draft but still build value by either fixing depreciated assets + giving them ample opportunity or by filling the fringes of the lineup with limited but role-appropriate players, while also taking huge swings to add long-term core pieces (i.e. eichel + tkachuk trades).
There's something that your not taking into consideration. Why do some teams, pretty much always an original 6, NY Rangers, Vegas, ect can skip this step? Well its because of their premium location. Its alot harder to sell Columbus when you have Florida as a potential landing spot. Columbus though has the luck of being a low tax burden state but I wouldn't be shocked if most players have NTCs to Canadian teams due to location, tax burden and media, California teams (Tax Burden) and Arizona (No comment needed). Columbus isn't that bad outside location but this team needs a "sell" to get players to come here without overpayment.
 

cbjthrowaway

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Jul 4, 2020
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There's something that your not taking into consideration. Why do some teams, pretty much always an original 6, NY Rangers, Vegas, ect can skip this step? Well its because of their premium location. Its alot harder to sell Columbus when you have Florida as a potential landing spot. Columbus though has the luck of being a low tax burden state but I wouldn't be shocked if most players have NTCs to Canadian teams due to location, tax burden and media, California teams (Tax Burden) and Arizona (No comment needed).
vegas built their original team on depreciated assets, though: theodore, karlsson, marchessault etc were all deemed expendable enough by their old teams to be traded – not just exposed – for draft consideration.

the important part of that step isn't talent identification, it's about setting that talent up to succeed in a major role. for example, the jackets rightly identified anthony duclair as a potential contributor, but didn't set him up to succeed like florida did.

big market teams can still embrace this – montreal definitely does. sean monahan and mike matheson are great examples of turning around reclamation candidates to create surplus value.
 

5th Line Fanatic

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Oct 2, 2020
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the distinction here is between 'new school' systems/coaching and 'new school' roster building/management. that's not to say the jarmo-era jackets haven't embraced modern trends when it comes to drafting – because they have – but there's more to a front office than just that.

the jackets roster building has been modern at times, but has fallen victim to outdated thought process by way of being:
- overly broad (bring in a lot of young players, let the chips fall where they may),
- reactionary (we lacked X trait, better go get a guy who has it)
- overly-positional (defense was weak, go get more defensemen)
- overly fixated on building through the draft

successful modern front offices, on the other hand:
- are more strategic
- are more targeted
- build from the top down
- are bold to the point of almost being harsh
- focus on getting the best 'bite from the apple' with their assets
- don't care nearly as much about the draft

the last point there may be controversial but i believe that over-reliance on the draft has significantly hamstrung this organization, even if i like the way they draft overall.

teams like vegas and florida have historically eschewed the draft but still build value by either fixing depreciated assets + giving them ample opportunity or by filling the fringes of the lineup with limited but role-appropriate players, while also taking huge swings to add long-term core pieces (i.e. eichel + tkachuk trades).

florida in particular has moved a ton of picks/prospects (i.e. tippett, levi, etc) whose hypothetical value outweighed their on-ice value, only to backfill with unheralded or struggling players who then provided both immediate and future value (verhaeghe, forsling, montour, bennett, reinhart).

in practice, florida identifying carter verhaeghe and putting him in a position to succeed with ample opportunity made owen tippett expendable, which netted them giroux. but verhaeghe was also cheaper than tippett, more developed and significantly better.

as a process, this is both faster and, weirdly enough, safer than the draft because you are making more strategic decisions based on more data. you don't need to gamble and wait on players to develop, you embrace the meat market and find assets you can improve at a reduced cost.

why wait on a guy like chinakhov or sillinger to pop off when you can get similar/better value, sooner, at a lower price by finding a depreciated asset, and double dip by moving those two guys to bolster your roster/asset cache?
Maximize Assets.
 

cbjthrowaway

Registered User
Jul 4, 2020
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Maximize Assets.
in a sense, yes. in practice, it's a bit more holistic than that.

gonna keep going back to florida as an example, but another one of their 'found' players was mason marchment. they traded denis malgin – who was seen as more valuable at the time – in a one-for-one deal.

not every individual move has to be "this guy is worth a 3rd rounder right now, better move him for that" – value can come from getting one asset off the books to clear up the right role/opportunity for a different asset.

a young skilled guy may be more 'valuable' than a physical veteran, but if the veteran may be a bigger contributor if they're more suited for the role.
 

Cyclones Rock

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Jun 12, 2008
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If I'm McConnell I'd start by using every relationship I've made in the last 15 years in the NHL to get honest assessments of the past and present, before I start making decisions about the future. I'd want to know if JD is part of the problem or part of the solution. If he's part of the problem, I'd want to know who I am going to count on to give me good advice before I ever consider firing/hiring a new GM.
Spot on.

I'd find it almost impossible to believe that JD would get a positive assessment from an unbiased observer.

For whatever reasons, McConnell has not made good decisions regarding his top managerial team with the CBJ. As your post stated, he's got to use his allies in the NHL to help him. He simply can't rely on internal sources at this point.
 
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