Henkka
Registered User
Nikulin is a good candidate.
As from forwards, Damier Brunner looks just ridiculously good. With or without Zetterberg.
As from forwards, Damier Brunner looks just ridiculously good. With or without Zetterberg.
With the return of Radulov to the NHL, who do you believe is his successor as the best player outside of the National Hockey League?
Vehanen or Cervenka.
Cervenka has been incredable these playoffs.
I realize that this thread is largely aimed at Europe, but are there Canadian Hockey League/NCAA/AHL players who'd make this list over the Europeans? I'm not trying to spark a Europe vs. North America battle, I am asking this legitimately.
Not likely. There are ex-NHLers in Europe who could still be in the NHL if the asking price was right. Players in AHL simply aren't good enough to crack an NHL lineup.
For example could you make the argument why Cervenka is better than say Cory Conacher?
Imo, Dallman's a player that benefits from his circumstance (tones of ice/PP time and sometimes he's allowed to be a 4th forward).
Taken out of his element in Barys, I don't think he's well rounded enough to be more than a #2/3 dman and pp specialist on an Ak Bars or somebody.
Someone like Kirill Koltsov could put up similar numbers if put in the same circumstance.
I'd say he's the KHL equivalent of Mike Green.....someone who sees the ice well, can run a PP and rack-up points; but also really questionable in his own zone and takes a nose dive in the playoffs.
14 (playoff) games is not enough to make any kind of sound evaluation plus for better or worse things are going to change next year.
Sure it is, especially when the sample size spans 4 years.
Dallman's put up insane offensive stats.....but he's also very 1 dimensional and always nose dives in the playoffs. That's hardly a recipe for best player; much less 'quite a bit better' than everybody else.
So if I've got this right the only reason he gets so many regular season points is because he plays on a crappy team, yet you are critizing his playoff performance? First of all he only has 14 playoff games in the KHL so you are looking at an extremely small sample size. Secondly the better your teammates are and the weaker your competition is helps you get points, which is the case when you play for a good team, especially in the playoffs where for example Barys has always played a much higher seeded team.
A lot of players on the Red Wings had the poor playoff performer label for years. Then they started winning cups and all was forgotten. 14 games is not enough to make any kind of sound evaluation plus for better or worse things are going to change next year.
Most player's point totals decline in playoffs...big deal. We're discussing playoff performance (you'd know nothing about b/c you don't watch KHL)
Regardless of strength of team, teammates or circumstance, the best players DO NOT individually disappoint in the playoffs year in and year out.
And lots of players from mid-level KHL teams thrive come playoff time. The guys on Riga usually step it up. Last year upper mid level Atlant made it to the finals.
So for those who don't know Dallman joined a better team this year, still had a fantastic regular season and as of right now as a defenceman is 5th in overall scoring in the KHL playoffs. Not bad for a guy who couldn't be more than a #2 or 3 dman and who can't perform in the playoffs. I guess the KHL experts showed me.
This was not answered at the time but to date Huberdeau (a CHL player at the time these comments were made) is leading rookies with 26pts. Conacher (an AHL player last year) is 2nd with 24 pts. Brunner has 22pts, Silfverberg has 16pts, and Granlund has spent a lot of the season in the AHL. If Cervenka qualified as a rookie his 12pts so far would have him in 17th in rookie scoring. Obviously he is not a rookie, nor was he even close to being the best player outside of the NHL last year.
The truth is that the AHL still draws from a much bigger pool of players than any other league beside the NHL. I do feel that Radulov is better than anyone in the AHL right now, but the average talent level in the AHL is higher than any league in Europe.
Very surprised with Dallman this year. I wasn't expecting such a good season.
What you're saying is akin to asking "Who are the best NHLers?", then comparing everybody by their non-NHL performances. You're again skewing the playing field and it's intellectually dishonest. Don't think people can't see through that. At least give the European players proper adjustment time before saying who's better in the N.A. game.
Regardless, Cervenka was one of the (if not the) best players outside NHL last few years.....his play in the NHL doesn't change the fact.
His (Evander Kane's) skill set didn't translate very well. He just wasn't very good.
BTW, KHL >>>> AHL
With rising salaries in Europe, the AHL has evolved into a developmental/transition league filled with younger players. Compared to 10-15 years ago, the veteran career AHLer (who regularly would tear up the league) or the veteran NHL/AHL tweener tends to play in Europe now (boatloads of North Americans included).
It's almost universally agreed upon that AHL is behind the top European leagues.
Actually I was commenting on their NHL performances thus far this season. Cervenka may have been one of the best Europeans playing in Europe, but that hardly made him the best player outside of the NHL.
I love this one too. After only 12 games (really only for conditioning) in the KHL you made this assessment of Kane, yet we are 40 games into the NHL season and you are saying it is to early for us to assess the new players from Europe.
KHL salaries are a bit misleading. First of all they aren't published so no one knows exactly what they are. Secondly because of the perceived playing and living conditions in Russia most KHL teams would have to vastly overpay to get North Americans to play over there. Thirdly the goal of most players is to reach the NHL and because of that they will stay in the AHL as long as they think they have a shot.
The vast majority of the players in the European leagues are European, yet Europeans only represent approximately 30% of the world's hockey players. If the leagues in Europe had a similar depth you would expect to see around 70% of the players being from NA, which they are still far from. I'm sorry but there just aren't enough Russians playing the game to give the KHL the same average depth as the AHL, the numbers don't lie.
Here are some gems from a rather heated debate we had around this time last year. Kind of nice to see that time has proved me right.
This was not answered at the time but to date Huberdeau (a CHL player at the time these comments were made) is leading rookies with 26pts. Conacher (an AHL player last year) is 2nd with 24 pts. Brunner has 22pts, Silfverberg has 16pts, and Granlund has spent a lot of the season in the AHL. If Cervenka qualified as a rookie his 12pts so far would have him in 17th in rookie scoring. Obviously he is not a rookie, nor was he even close to being the best player outside of the NHL last year.
The truth is that the AHL still draws from a much bigger pool of players than any other league beside the NHL. I do feel that Radulov is better than anyone in the AHL right now, but the average talent level in the AHL is higher than any league in Europe.
So for those who don't know Dallman joined a better team this year, still had a fantastic regular season and as of right now as a defenceman is 5th in overall scoring in the KHL playoffs. Not bad for a guy who couldn't be more than a #2 or 3 dman and who can't perform in the playoffs. I guess the KHL experts showed me.
I feel that a big mistake has been done here not taking the different rink sizes in as a variable. The game becomes much different and some players cant play on big ice while others not on small. The AHL plays much the same as the NHL, and when a player moves up and down between those leagues he sure is gonna feel the difference in the quality of the opposition.C
Edited: Try this out. It's more precise than counting IIHF registered players. It was done a few years ago though.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/projecting_to_nhl.php
League Difficulty Relative to NHL
Russian Elite League 0.83
Swedish Elite League 0.78
Czech Republic League 0.74
Finland SM-Liiga 0.54
Deutsche Eishockey League 0.52
American Hockey League 0.44
I feel that a big mistake has been done here not taking the different rink sizes in as a variable. The game becomes much different and some players cant play on big ice while others not on small. The AHL plays much the same as the NHL, and when a player moves up and down between those leagues he sure is gonna feel the difference in the quality of the opposition.
Yeah that table is bollocks. I mean DEL in front of AHL?? Probably because tons of all kinds of guys from AHL go to it and 1 or two top talents in the other direction. And in any case maybe it was like that some time ago but not now.
Antti Raanta has been unreal this season in FEL.
Regular season: .943% & 1,85 GAA
Playoffs so far: .955% & 1,38 GAA
Probably plays in NHL next season. If not, KHL for sure.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=17016
Probably KHL or AHL. It's not often a young goalie jumps right into the NHL without playing in a top league before. He'll need to prove he can play at a higher level for at least a few months if he wants to come straight into the NHL.