Looking back, how did the 03/04 Avs not win the cup?

[kulenova seka]

That season is still unhealed wound for me :'(

 

[Langdon Alger]

Kunitz-Getzlaf-Selanne
Ryan-Weight-Perry
Marchant-Niedermayer-Bertuzzi
Moen-Pahlsson-Carter

Niedermayer-Pronger
Schneider-O'Donnell
Beauchemin-Huskins

Giguere

2007-2008 Ducks team . Ridiculously stacked and did not win

Bertuzzi and Weight were pretty much done by that pint though right? Selanne was old, and the team won the cup the year before. They were probably gassed.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Kunitz-Getzlaf-Selanne
Ryan-Weight-Perry
Marchant-Niedermayer-Bertuzzi
Moen-Pahlsson-Carter

Niedermayer-Pronger
Schneider-O'Donnell
Beauchemin-Huskins

Giguere

2007-2008 Ducks team . Ridiculously stacked and did not win

That's a rusty Selanne and Niedermayer, strolling into the room halfway after sitting around for half a season.
'sall about the journey, man.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Kunitz-Getzlaf-Selanne
Ryan-Weight-Perry
Marchant-Niedermayer-Bertuzzi
Moen-Pahlsson-Carter

Niedermayer-Pronger
Schneider-O'Donnell
Beauchemin-Huskins

Giguere

2007-2008 Ducks team . Ridiculously stacked and did not win

Turco broke their forecheck. Just straight up broke it. Giguere had some uncharacteristically bad collapses in the third period of Games 2 and 6 too.

 

[sr edler]

The Anaheim guys were injured and didn't fit in very well with the team.

Turco broke their forecheck. Just straight up broke it. Giguere had some uncharacteristically bad collapses in the third period of Games 2 and 6 too.

I get that goalies are very important to a team, but you make it sound like it's the only thing that matters.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I get that goalies are very important to a team, but you make it sound like it's the only thing that matters.

You're saying that in a thread where I came to the defense of the idea that a team can win a Stanley Cup with David Aebischer?




Marty Turco was amazing in his aggressiveness, and Carlyle didn't adjust to it well enough in Game 1 and 2. Dumping the puck into the hands of arguably the best puckhandling goaltender in the league and then backing off pressure just wasn't a winning strategy.

 

[sr edler]

You're saying that in a thread where I came to the defense of the idea that a team can win a Stanley Cup with David Aebischer?

Nah, I'm still a bit hurt over the 1997–98 Canucks thread.

I laid awake last night and couldn't figure out how Tre Kronor with Lidström, Forsberg, Sundin & Alfredsson only scored one goal against Jarmo Myllys, and in the dying seconds of the game, at the 1998 Nagano Olympics, and how Canada only managed to score two goals on non-NHL goalkeeper Ari Sulander in the bronze game!

 

[Hasbro]

Tony Granato.

Teemu took the lockout to improve his knee and came back much better.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

If Vancouver beats Calgary in game 7 in OT, I've always felt there would be a Detroit vs. Tampa final.

Detroit would have played Colorado in round 2. Colorado wouldn't have Roy anymore to stand on his head against Detroit. I don't think their roster was as good as Detroit's at that time. Not sure how San Jose vs. Vancouver would go, but I can't envision either team actually making the Finals with those rosters. The West was turned upside down with Calgary beating Vancouver.

As others have said, Colorado had Aebisher and Kariya and Selanne disappeared. Also, not having Drury and Yelle hurt them. One of the dumbest trades of the decade. Drury was a always clutch for them in the playoffs (as was Yelle) and Morris barely lasted a few seasons in Colorado.

I've thought about starting a thread about how the Drury trade impacted Colorado. Seems to be the beginning of their downward spiral (along with Forsberg's injuries and the salary cap)

Exactly as good as Colorado was that year, Detroit, Toronto and even Philly were more stacked than they were. I remember watching Detroit at the end of that season and seeing all of the talent they had and they added Robert Lang as well, I said no way anyone beats them. Boy was I wrong.

 

[Terry Yake]

Kunitz-Getzlaf-Selanne
Ryan-Weight-Perry
Marchant-Niedermayer-Bertuzzi
Moen-Pahlsson-Carter

Niedermayer-Pronger
Schneider-O'Donnell
Beauchemin-Huskins

Giguere

2007-2008 Ducks team . Ridiculously stacked and did not win

stacked? maybe on paper

selanne and niedermayer missed almost half the season while "pondering retirement" and it took them a while to shake off the rust

bertuzzi never clicked and neither did doug "dead" weight who was absolutely awful during his time with the ducks. trading mcdonald for weight was one of the worst move the ducks have ever made, and it took them 7 years to recover from it and land another legit 2C

that stars team was just an all around better team that year

as for the 03-04 avs. selanne was playing on one leg and hadn't quite been himself for a few years leading up to that point. kariya also battled injuries all season long. the avs D wasn't all that great either and going from roy to aebischer i would think played a part as well. not to mention that they probably could've used a better HC to coach all those big names too

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

to be totally honest, i was totally surprised that the '02 red wings worked. i don't know, something about those stacked super teams always struck me as a ship waiting to sink. maybe it was because one of my formative hockey watching experiences growing up was watching the '93 pens lose to the islanders.

that said, the '04 avs were the one time when i saw a team's roster at the beginning of the year and said "this contest is over, give that man the $10,000." even with no roy or bourque, with fedorov leaving detroit and stevens battling concussion issues and unsure whether he'd come back, i just didn't see anyone in colorado's way. i do, however, remember expecting roy to come back at some point, hasek-style.

...

totally unrelated, but did anyone else always read terry yake's name and pronounce it "teriyaki" in their head?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Bertuzzi and Weight were pretty much done by that pint though right?

bertuzzi never clicked

i can't believe we're talking about the '04 avs and this is the only discussion of bertuzzi.

 

[AvsGuy]

By the time Colorado lost in 6 to the Shark in round 2, I wasn't surprised - the season hadn't gone the way it was hyped up to. Forsberg struggled with injuries (39 games), Paul Kariya struggled with injuries (51 games), Teemu Selanne was injured and putrid (18 goals and 36 points Teemu? Cripes.), none of their trades worked out (Derek Morris and Keith Ballard to Phoenix for Chris Gratton and Ossi Vaananen, acquiring Matthew Barnaby, Tommy Salo, etc.)... hell, you know when Travis Brigley gets in 36 games, you're not icing an optimal lineup. The whole season was a disappointment, and San Jose came to play a lot harder in the second round than the Avs did, plain and simple.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Pretty much all been summed up here, but the biggest reasons for me were Selanne not clicking with the team, Kariya getting injured signing his own contract, Forsberg being hurt and no depth. While Aebischer was in over his head as a starter, the defense the Avs had could cover for him some. To me there just wasn't enough offense with Foppa and Kariya hurt all the time and Selanne not doing well...hell, I even remember Selanne being on the 4th line quite a bit, which actually points me to having an incompetent head coach in Granato being another issue (how he ended up getting a 2nd chance as head coach still baffles me to this day).

 

[VanIslander]

Didn't we establish that the Avalanche didn't lose their series in 2004 but the San Jose Sharks won that series?

 

[Tmu84]

03/04 is a typical example how injuries can dismantle a talented squad. Forsberg, Kariya, Selanne injured or not playing at their full health. Selanne with a need of major knee surgery and the following lockout saved his career as we all know. Anyway I have no doubt a healthy Colorado team would not have all but steamrolled over then San Jose that year. Even with someone as unqualified coach as Tony Granato. And I mean No disrespect for the San Jose team, they were great that year. But yes, sometimes injuries are part of the game...

 

[Ceremony]

Alternatively:

- Kariya and Selanne were garbage
- Forsberg was injured for most of it
- Aebischer was crap, no matter what anyone says
- Tony Granato was out of his depth
- Todd Bertuzzi

Looking at some of the posts in this thread, there's one about the trades made during this season. In a sort of encapsulation of my points, there's a segment of that documentary showing clips of games from what would be some point after the trade deadline as it covers the Avs' faltering performances at that point. You hear a line of commentary that says "the Avalanche now with a line of Barnaby, Gratton and Kariya." There might have been external reasons for Kariya/Selanne/Forsberg (in particular) for failing to play to the levels that might have been expected of them, but the guy in charge of them was not capable of coaching an NHL team.

Despite various faults with the regular season it was still a good result by the end of it. To me, at the time and vaguely remembering what I can about it, the Bertuzzi/Moore incident just felt too demoralising for the team to rally from. Something that was so savage and so shocking, so unprecedented even, it was like the shock of it just destroyed whatever team spirit might have existed at that point. That's not going to tell you the specific details of why the Avalanche failed to win in the playoffs, but it stands among the worst possible preparations for it.

 

[Hennessy]

That season is painful to think about. Entirely for the promise it failed to deliver. I mean, first game of the season, Avs get a PP. Out come Sakic, Forsberg, Selanne, Kariya and Blake. Holy jumping. Sadly, that may have been the highlight of the year.

 

[The Panther]

That was an awesome video (above).

As Lacroix said, it seemed to summarize their season when Kariya was injured (again) in his final shift of the final game of the season.

I actually think Kariya was fairly good that year, it's just that he was in and out of the line-up and it's hard to establish a team identity and rhythm that way.

Selanne is harder to understand. I know he and Granato supposedly didn't get on, but he's an elite scorer playing on a highly talented team. I think at one point in the season he went 19 games without a goal...?

 

[Sticks and Pucks]

Injuries definitely played a factor. The Avs weren't able to lock down their division and as a result, did not even have home ice advantage against the Sharks. In fact, they were leading their division until the final week and sort of stumbled into the playoffs. The Avs weren't even seen as huge Stanley Cup contenders going into the playoffs. Back then, we were coming off years where Jose Theodore singlehandedly took his team to the playoffs and Giguere singlehandedly took his team to the Cup Finals. Goaltending had never been more important during that era. I don't think anyone really thought Aebischer would get the job done. In fact, many people predicted Marty Turco and the Stars would dismantle the Avs in the first round.

I don't even remember the Avs being the favourites in the preseason due to their questionable goaltending. The year before, there were many upsets in the playoffs due to great goaltending (see, Anaheim over Detroit and Dallas, New Jersey over Ottawa). I remember everyone thinking Detroit was the preseason favourites because they had Hasek and were deeper than Colorado on the back end.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

re selanne and granato, from a previous thread:

Yeah. That's what I meant. I just didn't write it correctly. Selanne said in his book that during that time, his other leg was 3 inches thinner in thigh. His knee was shot. Well, actually both of them were shot. One was just worse than the other.

Still, I don't think Grenato had him in the doghouse solely because of bad performance level. Everyone in that team who have come forward has said that Grenato just didn't like Selanne. For some weird reason.

they were briefly teammates in SJ. i wonder if there was a beef?

end of 2001: sharks trade for selanne (RW). 2002: granato (RW) no longer in NHL. hmm..?

I don´t know. Selänne wasn´t happy when he wasn´t used the way he liked. He didn´t like the Sharks system and there were Stories/ about not having very good relationship with Sutter. We Finns know that Selänne wasn´t always that happy in NT. He never liked Jukka Jalonens coaching and rumours are that he didn´t get along with Summanen either.

Not saying that Granato was great coach, but I would be hesitant to put all the blame on Granato.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Has a team ever had a better top 6?

Tanguay Sakic Hejduk
Kariya Forsberg Selanne

Konowalchuk was an awesome 3rd liner who could play with some -grit and chip in.

They had a legit no.1 dman - Rob Blake (46 pts)
Depth on D with Foote (solid top 4 stay at home), Liles (puck moving dman)

Their goalie Aebischer was putting up career numbers...

Looking back at some of the best teams (on paper) ..they stand out... what happened?

96-97 Wings would have to be close to that top 6.

Russian Five forwards (Kozlov, Fedorov, Larionov)
Yzerman line (Shanny, Yzerman, Lapointe)

 

[Iceman]

Kunitz-Getzlaf-Selanne
Ryan-Weight-Perry
Marchant-Niedermayer-Bertuzzi
Moen-Pahlsson-Carter

Niedermayer-Pronger
Schneider-O'Donnell
Beauchemin-Huskins

Giguere

2007-2008 Ducks team . Ridiculously stacked and did not win

It's the other way around, Detroit should've won in 2007.

 

[Andon]

Selanne is harder to understand. I know he and Granato supposedly didn't get on, but he's an elite scorer playing on a highly talented team. I think at one point in the season he went 19 games without a goal...?

Selanne would have been pretty much done in the NHL if he hadn't taken the 2004-05 lockout to get knee surgery. Which rejuvenated his career and he played nine more seasons Anyway, the Colorado season was the hardest time of his career, by his own admission.

 

[shadow1]

Injuries. Colorado sat 29-11-11 at the end of January.

- Forsberg was scoring at a 100 point pace, but only played 39 games (55 pts)
- Kariya missed a third of the season due to injury, and only played 1 playoff game
- Selanne was playing on one knee, which explains his 32 points in 78 games. He was a healthy scratch during one of the Avalanche's playoff games. He said in a later interview that the lockout saved his career because it afforded him the opportunity to fix said knee.

Fun fact #1: trading Derek Morris for Chris Gratton at the deadline was very stupid
Fun fact #2: Colorado originally traded Chris Drury for Derek Morris