Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Pinkfloyd]

Petro last year was absolutely not the same guy that won the Cup in 2019 but Vegas had the depth to make up for that

No but he was still a pretty clear #1 and Vegas wasn't winning w/o him.

Sure, but convincing them to come here is like 99% of the battle. I would love to grab two of those guys (or someone like Skjei) but I shudder to think of the overpayment it would take to make them choose us over a legit playoff team.

Besides, like I said before, I don’t really want to do the equivalent of signing Damon Severson and Erik Gusbranson to awful contracts.

Agreed on drafting D next year.

Yeah and I don't expect the Sharks to actually convince anyone of worth to come here and anchor the team in a transitional sense. It wouldn't be worth it for the Sharks to commit to someone what it would take to ask them to turn down likely better take-home pay and better competitive opportunities just for the minutes. That sort of thing is pretty rare for a free agent to do.

Well it’s a hypothetical, Toronto needs cap space couture makes less then Tavares and if healthy would probably be an upgrade at 3c scoring wise worst case scenario he goes on the LTIR for the leafs and they’ve got 12 mill to spend during the dead line

Tavares could slot in as the #1 on the team, Celebreni could slot in as the 3c or play wing with Tavares and get mentored by him

Yeah but Tavares has an NMC. No way he's waiving that for the Sharks. Maybe we can play the role of facilitator but I'm not sure what competitive team has the room or interest in Tavares' last year even if Toronto retains some of it (they won't retain anywhere close to 50% for sure and we can't do that either). The best we could do is hope that Tavares would waive for a team like Edmonton who has cap dumps they'd need a 3rd team to eat where we take on Campbell, move out Blackwood, and possibly move Couture as part of it if someone is for whatever reason willing to gamble on Couture's health for three seasons or think he'll stay on LTIR but we won't even know that until July comes and goes and Couture has either started skating or suffered another setback. It may not happen in time as interest in players of this sort of cost tends to dwindle as the offseason gets further into July.

 

[Sendhelplease]

With regards to Necas I think that players of his caliber tend to be available every year in a trade. I don't think it is the right time to make a move for Necas considering where we are in the rebuild and I have faith that in the next few years another player in the Necas caliber will be available in trade for a similar price to what we would pay now. In the past Meier, Debrincat, and Buchnevic have been acquired via trade, I am sure their future equivalents will also be acquirable when we have a better established core.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

With regards to Necas I think that players of his caliber tend to be available every year in a trade. I don't think it is the right time to make a move for Necas considering where we are in the rebuild and I have faith that in the next few years another player in the Necas caliber will be available in trade for a similar price to what we would pay now. In the past Meier, Debrincat, and Buchnevic have been acquired via trade, I am sure their future equivalents will also be acquirable when we have a better established core.

Wingers are the one position that we can afford to be patient with as it relates to committing to players. We have some that are good enough for where we are, some on the way, and they're pretty readily available through trade or free agency. Post-Celebrini, it's time to focus on defense and making that competitive. We're only going to have so much really available to us so we should take the best long-term bets and stay away from risky propositions there. We don't need to commit to someone who ends up like Vlasic.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

No but he was still a pretty clear #1 and Vegas wasn't winning w/o him.

Yeah and I don't expect the Sharks to actually convince anyone of worth to come here and anchor the team in a transitional sense. It wouldn't be worth it for the Sharks to commit to someone what it would take to ask them to turn down likely better take-home pay and better competitive opportunities just for the minutes. That sort of thing is pretty rare for a free agent to do.

Yeah but Tavares has an NMC. No way he's waiving that for the Sharks. Maybe we can play the role of facilitator but I'm not sure what competitive team has the room or interest in Tavares' last year even if Toronto retains some of it (they won't retain anywhere close to 50% for sure and we can't do that either). The best we could do is hope that Tavares would waive for a team like Edmonton who has cap dumps they'd need a 3rd team to eat where we take on Campbell, move out Blackwood, and possibly move Couture as part of it if someone is for whatever reason willing to gamble on Couture's health for three seasons or think he'll stay on LTIR but we won't even know that until July comes and goes and Couture has either started skating or suffered another setback. It may not happen in time as interest in players of this sort of cost tends to dwindle as the offseason gets further into July.

Edmonton has the same problem Toronto has weak defense and goaltending so there’s no need for that type of trade. A lot of players have NMC’s it wouldnt be the first time they’ve been waived to go somewhere else even if it’s less desirable it’s only for one year and if Tavares is getting top line minutes his numbers will be up and the sharks could probably trade him and get a team to help make it happen. Sj has a lot of cap space may as well to try and use it wisely and not take on something like campbells contract

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Edmonton has the same problem Toronto has weak defense and goaltending so there’s no need for that type of trade. A lot of players have NMC’s it wouldnt be the first time they’ve been waived to go somewhere else even if it’s less desirable it’s only for one year and if Tavares is getting top line minutes his numbers will be up and the sharks could probably trade him and get a team to help make it happen. Sj has a lot of cap space may as well to try and use it wisely and not take on something like campbells contract

I cannot recall a single player that had an NMC that waived it to go from a playoff team to a non-playoff team.

 

[LadyStanley]

Check out this Podcast: Aggressive Trades For The 2024 Offseason Aggressive Trades For The 2024 Offseason
Locked On Sharks podcast
Marner, Necas, Ehlers and/or Chychrun as possible additions

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Check out this Podcast: Aggressive Trades For The 2024 Offseason Aggressive Trades For The 2024 Offseason
Locked On Sharks podcast
Marner, Necas, Ehlers and/or Chychrun as possible additions

Unless those guys can be had for spare parts (unlikely) I’m personally not all that interested. I’d also venture none of those guys are particularly interested in the Sharks.

They’re each fine players in their own way, but are on the market (or speculated to be so) for reasons that make me want to avoid them. Marner for being a consistent playoff non-factor. Necas and Chychrun because they want out of their current situations; seems like they’d want to bail on SJ too if things don’t go their way out the gates. I’m not sure why the Jets would make Ehlers available unless they viewed him as expendable and want to recoup assets prior to him entering UFA.

In all cases the Sharks would have to pay significant assets and then to make that worth it pony up on an expensive long term contract. Seems like a big investment for what seem to be a collection of solid supporting, but non-core players. This would essentially be running the Meier trade in reverse at a time when the org should be stockpiling assets and making moves with an eye on the long term. No need to rush it at this point.

 

[StanleyCup2035]

Kunin, of course, needs to be re-signed to $8M per 8 year deal (with a full NMC)

Other than that obvious move, I'm at a loss. Should the Sharks sign some veterans to teach Celebrini (and may-be Smith) the ropes and play on their wings (ex: Stamkos to a 2 year $20M deal or somthing) and some decent defense (DeMelo, Zadorov) or should we stay near the salary cap minimum to insure maximum suckage?

 

[Hodge]

I hope Grier inquires about Cernak after the McDonagh trade.

 

[Star Platinum]

Kunin, of course, needs to be re-signed to $8M per 8 year deal (with a full NMC)

Other than that obvious move, I'm at a loss. Should the Sharks sign some veterans to teach Celebrini (and may-be Smith) the ropes and play on their wings (ex: Stamkos to a 2 year $20M deal or somthing) and some decent defense (DeMelo, Zadorov) or should we stay near the salary cap minimum to insure maximum suckage?

Personally, I'd try to stay near the floor. Not so much because of the suckage aspect (cause I don't think there's any way around suckage for at least a couple more years), but because having a lot of cap space gives you a chance to make deals for other team's cap dumps and your ability to take on more salary means that you don't have to give up as much talent in exchange to get them. The Sharks aren't going to be attractive free agent destinations for a while and any guys they do get that other teams want, they're gonna have to overpay to get them to come here. I think you can raise the talent level of the Sharks to make them more competitive in games, even if they aren't winning that many more of them, without going nuts in free agency to do it.

And IMO, the Sharks need at least two more drafts where they're near the top of the lottery to really build out their prospect pool if they want to compete for Cups and not just be a regular playoff team.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Kunin, of course, needs to be re-signed to $8M per 8 year deal (with a full NMC)

Other than that obvious move, I'm at a loss. Should the Sharks sign some veterans to teach Celebrini (and may-be Smith) the ropes and play on their wings (ex: Stamkos to a 2 year $20M deal or somthing) and some decent defense (DeMelo, Zadorov) or should we stay near the salary cap minimum to insure maximum suckage?

Kunin, of course, needs to be re-signed to $8M per 8 year deal (with a full NMC)

Other than that obvious move, I'm at a loss. Should the Sharks sign some veterans to teach Celebrini (and may-be Smith) the ropes and play on their wings (ex: Stamkos to a 2 year $20M deal or somthing) and some decent defense (DeMelo, Zadorov) or should we stay near the salary cap minimum to insure maximum suckage?

I have ideas for other roster moves, but yeah, I’d love to throw a 2 year $23-24M contract at Stamkos. We could maximally front load the first year and pay in all signing bonuses to mitigate California taxes. Something like: $14.375M + $8.625

I also like DeMelo to help solidify the right side, and Wennberg as a middle six mentor and hedge for Couture.

I also think Bordeleau is not a good fit for Grier’s vision for the team and would look for an opportunity to swap for a RD prospect in a similar situation. Justin Barron from Montreal, who was 13 picks ahead of Bordeleau, and maybe be expendable for them, seems like a sensible target.

 

[sharks_dynasty]

Why do we need a Stamkos for the next 2 years? Seems like a huge overpayment considering the team is not going to be competitive and it doesn’t solve our hole in Defense. I get that he would be a good influence for the kids, but why can’t we get players that are likely to be part of our longer term strategy and also more affordable?

 

[Juxtaposer]

Why do we need a Stamkos for the next 2 years? Seems like a huge overpayment considering the team is not going to be competitive and it doesn’t solve our hole in Defense. I get that he would be a good influence for the kids, but why can’t we get players that are likely to be part of our longer term strategy and also more affordable?

Sure. Like who?

 

[landshark]

Sure. Like who?

Luke f'ing Kunin...

 

[sharks_dynasty]

Sure. Like who?

Like Jiricek, Duclair, Anders Lee, Pageau, Rasmus Anderson, Peeke, and Lauzon.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Like Jiricek, Duclair, Anders Lee, Pageau, Rasmus Anderson, Peeke, and Lauzon.

Just my opinion, but I don’t really see how most of those names both improve our defense and could grow with our team. Jiricek would cost Smith and Andersson would cost #14++. So everyone is either 1) a mediocre player who wouldn’t actually make a real difference on our team, 2) would cost significant future assets to acquire (Jiricek/Andersson), or 3) isn’t available (Lee, IMO).

I’d be in favor of Andersson, but that doesn’t preclude spending money on Stamkos as well. We have plenty of it.

 

[ThePlanet]

Why do we need a Stamkos for the next 2 years? Seems like a huge overpayment considering the team is not going to be competitive and it doesn’t solve our hole in Defense. I get that he would be a good influence for the kids, but why can’t we get players that are likely to be part of our longer term strategy and also more affordable?

I think a big thing to consider is also the marketing aspect. Yes, we just won first overall pick which will create excitement around the team, but Stamkos is an established star with a track record of winning. If we could bring him in at the same time as the future cornerstone of the franchise, it would be huge for ticket sales.

Beyond all of that, he has trained under (might still, but I haven't looked that up) and been mentored by Gary Roberts. That man is a fitness freak on the level of Brind'Amour, and is the main reason I want Stamkos on this team The sort of impact that he could have on the development of the youth would be priceless.

 

[Barrie22]

Stamkos would also be a good mentor to someone that might come straight into the NHL and dominate. Yes lots of Stamkos issues in his rookie season wasn't really issues with the game but his coach being one of the worst in NHL history. But he would still know how to deal with that extra pressure and any mental struggles that Celebrini and even Smith might go through in a rookie season.

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

Edmonton has the same problem Toronto has weak defense and goaltending so there’s no need for that type of trade. A lot of players have NMC’s it wouldnt be the first time they’ve been waived to go somewhere else even if it’s less desirable it’s only for one year and if Tavares is getting top line minutes his numbers will be up and the sharks could probably trade him and get a team to help make it happen. Sj has a lot of cap space may as well to try and use it wisely and not take on something like campbells contract

i cannot recall a captain of his hometown team, who specifically signed with them and which team ran an entire media campaign on him sleeping in the team pyjamas, waiving his NMC.

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

Why do we need a Stamkos for the next 2 years? Seems like a huge overpayment considering the team is not going to be competitive and it doesn’t solve our hole in Defense. I get that he would be a good influence for the kids, but why can’t we get players that are likely to be part of our longer term strategy and also more affordable?

wtf we talking about overpayment during 2 years of cheap Smith/Celebrini. We HAVE to hit the cap floor. WE HAVE 26 MILLION IN CAP SPACE and a full roster of players.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Just my opinion, but I don’t really see how most of those names both improve our defense and could grow with our team. Jiricek would cost Smith and Andersson would cost #14++. So everyone is either 1) a mediocre player who wouldn’t actually make a real difference on our team, 2) would cost significant future assets to acquire (Jiricek/Andersson), or 3) isn’t available (Lee, IMO).

I’d be in favor of Andersson, but that doesn’t preclude spending money on Stamkos as well. We have plenty of it.

What about someone like Filip Hronek? Sounds like he's trying to get 8 mil out of Vancouver. I don't think I'd want to pay that to him over a long term but if we're limiting term to four years and he's open to 4 years, 32 mil and the trade cost was say one of Benning, Burroughs, or Rutta plus #44 plus either Bordeleau or Gushchin, how far off is it?

wtf we talking about overpayment during 2 years of cheap Smith/Celebrini. We HAVE to hit the cap floor. WE HAVE 26 MILLION IN CAP SPACE and a full roster of players.

We have to spend a minimum of 15 mil to reach the floor. We can overpay guys we want. We can take horrible cap dumps if we want. The only big name free agent I care for is Stamkos for Celebrini's sake but I'm not expecting that to actually happen.

 

[Hodge]

wtf we talking about overpayment during 2 years of cheap Smith/Celebrini. We HAVE to hit the cap floor. WE HAVE 26 MILLION IN CAP SPACE and a full roster of players.

We could spend that money on actual good players instead of bringing in the kind of washed up shell of his former self veteran we just spent two years purging from the team.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

i cannot recall a captain of his hometown team, who specifically signed with them and which team ran an entire media campaign on him sleeping in the team pyjamas, waiving his NMC.

The end of the day it’s a business, marketing sells a cute story, cute stories don’t win championships

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

We have to spend a minimum of 15 mil to reach the floor. We can overpay guys we want. We can take horrible cap dumps if we want. The only big name free agent I care for is Stamkos for Celebrini's sake but I'm not expecting that to actually happen.

and were also out of retention slots, so we cant even take cap on by facilitating trades between cap strapped teams.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

What about someone like Filip Hronek? Sounds like he's trying to get 8 mil out of Vancouver. I don't think I'd want to pay that to him over a long term but if we're limiting term to four years and he's open to 4 years, 32 mil and the trade cost was say one of Benning, Burroughs, or Rutta plus #44 plus either Bordeleau or Gushchin, how far off is it?


We have to spend a minimum of 15 mil to reach the floor. We can overpay guys we want. We can take horrible cap dumps if we want. The only big name free agent I care for is Stamkos for Celebrini's sake but I'm not expecting that to actually happen.

Given Griers track record with UFA’s he’ll use all available cap space to sign all available UFA 3/4 line forwards and 6/7 dmen to absurd deals