Player Discussion Auston Matthews Discussion

[fahad203]

This debate is tiresome.

Just because you are not the best doesn't mean you are not good. And it certainly doesn't mean you don't want it.

The Leafs have failed as a team for a variety of reasons. One of them is Matthews hasn't produced as he does in the regular season.

The core didn't work together in the playoffs. Plain and simple.

Matthews has a higher GPG and PPG than Stamkos incthe playoffs and even with him being not great is top 60 alltime in both. In tje history of the league.

He needs to be more consistent for sure, but he hasn't been awful

I never said he was awful, but he has never been the best player in any of those series

For someone who has been the highest paid player in every one of those series for last 5 years that's very underwhelming

Look at Barkov against the Bruins. He's making MacCovy his little B****. He has owned the Bruins so far.

That's my argument. Anyways. We have beaten this to death.

Always appreciate the responses.

 

[Jojalu]

I never said he was awful, but he has never been the best player in any of those series

For someone who has been the highest paid player in every one of those series for last 5 years that's very underwhelming

Look at Barkov against the Bruins. He's making MacCovy his little B****. He has owned the Bruins so far.

That's my argument. Anyways. We have beaten this to death.

Always appreciate the responses.

It feels like you are neglecting everything Matthews does outside of raw points.


Being an elite defender, while being good on faceoffs, while being in the top of hits, blocks, takeaways all the time can't be looked past.

Matthews has done a lot. Just not enough yet. But like all the others on the list, outside McDavid and to an extent Mack, all it takes on one big run and he would be top 20 alltime

 

[rielledup]

What are you talking about? He was second on the team in hits for forwards and would have easily run away had he not missed two games.

He hit while forechecking.. he hit in his own zone.

You can go on about his lack of scoring, but he hits people all the time

It's crazy how people can be watching the same thing and observe something that's the complete opposite of each other. Like how do you miss Matthews hitting people?

 

[WillNy29]

Are there stats to justify this ?

Matthews vs McDavid

How successful did either player make Hyman ?

No contest

lol if i put the stats here youre going to ignore them for your feelings anyways

 

[MSZ]

So Matthews suffered a head injury in game 4 and came back for game 7... cool.

Everything considered I don't think he played that bad in game 7, but obviously it wasn't enough.

 

[Boxscore]

It feels like you are neglecting everything Matthews does outside of raw points.


Being an elite defender, while being good on faceoffs, while being in the top of hits, blocks, takeaways all the time can't be looked past.

Matthews has done a lot. Just not enough yet. But like all the others on the list, outside McDavid and to an extent Mack, all it takes on one big run and he would be top 20 alltime

Matthews isn't being paid a league max contract to finish 3rd in Selke voting. He's being paid top dollar to score a ton of goals when it matters most and carry the Leafs on his back offensively in the playoffs. Let's not pretend otherwise.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

this guy gets hurt alot.

 

[Boxscore]

this guy gets hurt alot.

Hurt, and comes up short a lot. And when it matters most. I'm going to say the same thing I've said the past two offseasons... "next year's playoffs are going to be crucial for Matthews." New no-nonsense coach in Berube, another full year of Tree, and a (hopefully) possible shakeup of the soft core. The excuses are running out. 69 goals during the regular season is wonderful... but getting bounced in the 1st round again is 100% unacceptable. 8 years and this dude has one 1st round win to show for it. Absolutely ludicrous for a player who demands top dollar and shows up during the regular season.

 

[Stephen]

I agree with that, but I'm going to take the point in a different direction.

I don't care if he hits or not and would rather have him be even more selective bout the hits/contact.

Now, I don't want him to turtle and run away from contact. I don't want every time he get touched by someone else for him to run to the refs and complain. That's not what I'm talking about here. But, with him you have a generational goal scorer. I want nothing, zero, to get in the way of that. Last year we all think he was playing through a wrist injury, and what happened? For his standards, he had a pretty bad year (compared to this year and 2 years ago). Now, every time there is extra contact, there is a slight additional risk of him tweaking something. Yeah, I know players play through those things all the time, but when I have the BEST goal scorer in the league, I don't want HIM playing through that.

There have been other great players in the NHL that had size that didn't play much of a physical game. Tim Kerr, Dave Andreychuck, even Rick Vaive to a certain extent (he was much less physical later in his career and his career ended early BECAUSE of the beating he took). They used that size to be able to take a beating to be near the front of the net, to put themselves in position to score even more goals when a lesser/smaller guy might have been knocked out of the way. I want just about 100% of the contact Matthews endures to be while he is doing that. Play positionally. Use your size to be in areas that others can't. As far as the rest of his game, he's physical enough.

If we want to criticize him not showing up enough in big games fine. If we want to say he doesn't produce enough in the playoffs, especially compared to guys like MacKinnon, McDavid, Draisaitl, fine. I think Matthews needs to be better. But playing more of a physical game by throwing more hits, I think that is going in the wrong direction.

Your conclusion is completely off. A highly skilled big power forward body that shies away from dishing out pain and trouble for the opposition becomes a target and a focus for the opposition, which is traditionally what happens to AM34.

Matthews shouldn’t be absorbing punishment like letting McAvoy wrestle him onto the ice and potentially giving him a concussion. He shouldn’t be taking a shoulder separating cross check from Jacob Trouba to make a play.

Matthews should be weaponizing his body so the opposition can’t engage in neutralizing him without paying a very heavy price themselves. And that is achieved by tone setting physicality, an occasional errant elbow, and defensive high stick and just be nasty. Even Mats Sundin was so effective popping out the hip and dropping the shoulder and just driving into traffic with physicality even though he wasn’t out to run over anyone.

Gentle giant hockey will never pay off for Matthews if he wants to win a cup. If he’s a passive recipient of physical play, this league will hobble him.

 

[Niagara Bill]

I often get the sense that AM and Mitchy play at 85% speed in the playoffs.
AM plays hard but rarely scares the opposition dmen with speed or strength. With McD dmen run, with McKinnon, dmen run, with AM dmen close, pinch him.

 

[mjd1001]

Your conclusion is completely off. A highly skilled big power forward body that shies away from dishing out pain and trouble for the opposition becomes a target and a focus for the opposition, which is traditionally what happens to AM34.

Matthews shouldn’t be absorbing punishment like letting McAvoy wrestle him onto the ice and potentially giving him a concussion. He shouldn’t be taking a shoulder separating cross check from Jacob Trouba to make a play.

Matthews should be weaponizing his body so the opposition can’t engage in neutralizing him without paying a very heavy price themselves. And that is achieved by tone setting physicality, an occasional errant elbow, and defensive high stick and just be nasty. Even Mats Sundin was so effective popping out the hip and dropping the shoulder and just driving into traffic with physicality even though he wasn’t out to run over anyone.

Gentle giant hockey will never pay off for Matthews if he wants to win a cup. If he’s a passive recipient of physical play, this league will hobble him.

Ok, I understand your point, i just totally disagree.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Matthews 48 points in 55 playoff games, Draisaitl 100 in 60 games. Matthews is a fraud. Only racks up points when it's "easy" on a Tuesday night in November.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Matthews 48 points in 55 playoff games, Draisaitl 100 in 60 games. Matthews is a fraud. Only racks up points when it's "easy" on a Tuesday night in November.

But..but faceoffs…and defence

Give me a 1 dimensional as f*** player like draisaitl over Matthews 10/10 times

being good defensively does nothing for us, when you score 1 goal total

 

[Gabriel426]

I really can't remember a series where he outplayed his competition. If anything, the opposing C always end up making a name for himself after a series against AM.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

I really can't remember a series where he outplayed his competition. If anything, the opposing C always end up making a name for himself after a series against AM.

It’s not that it hasn’t happened

It’s that it barely happens

Matthews vs Bergeron, we had to shelter Matthews away from him

Matthews vs Krejci he won in 2019

Matthews vs Dubois…Dubois got paid because people still think he can be that player

Matthews vs Danault… pizza man spanked matthews

Matthews vs Point x2 he won in 2022 and 2023

Matthews vs Barkov….Matthews didn’t score a goal.

Matthews vs Coyle he “won” by coyle not scoring but he wasn’t better because of his own abilities. He played 1 game out of the 5 he dressed in through a 7 game series.

It’s just not good enough

 

[Boxscore]

But..but faceoffs…and defence

And don't forget... "but... hits and blocks!!"

All of this is code for: "Matthews can't produce at a high level in the playoffs so let's stuff everything we can in a package and hope it makes him look like Mark Messier."