Very much so.
I didn’t say Markov sucked. Really good offensive player. And the Canadiens were an offensively challenged shallow club. And yes, if you took Markov away, the club’s offense would sink. And Subban was only 22 at the time.
And take a look what happens to Markov in 2016. 39 in 67 with Subban. Then PK got hurt. Without Subban his points sink like a stone. 5 in 15 without Subban. Markov benefited a lot more playing with Subban's than the other way around.
And Subban would put up 59 points the very next year in Nashville on an offensively challenged club. He didn’t need Markov to do that.
Sure. But he was able to finish top 3 in Norris voting without him. And in Subban’s Norris season he was played mostly with Josh Georges.
In 2016, Markov was 37 years old. No one is denying PK was an awesome so of course his total would go down.
At 37, Subban would have been retired for 5 years! Puts things into context.
Not sure how anyone can say with a straight face Markov benefited more from playing with Subban than the other way around. Markov made a career of making bottom pair D-man like all star. Sheldon Souray, Mike Komisarek, Josh Gorges. Even Mathieu Schneider at age 40 had a big jump in production in 2009. You can take a guess why.
You are mistaken. And maybe this is where the disconnect is. 64 points in Markov’s time is radically different from getting 60 points in the 2010s.
Again, how did he do va his contemporaries? Offense was way down in the 2010s. 89 points won a scoring championship back then.
Subban fared much better vs his contemporaries than Markov did. That’s why his Norris voting is much higher.
Markov was great but he doesn’t have a case against PK. By every meaningful measure Subban was a better player.
Scoring vs contemporaries: Subban
Norris finishes: Subban
Analytics: Subban
Physical play: Subban
First pass: Markov
Rushing transition: Subban
Playoff/Clutch play: Subban
Highest scoring Habs in 2015 was Patches at 67 pts.
Highest scoring Habs in 2009 was Kovalev at 65 pts.
That 2015 team had more weapons with 4 players above 50 pts.
The 2009 was pretty much Markov and Kovalev. Koivu was the 3rd scorer at 50 pts but that was it.
We'll never agree on this so I will guess we'll agree to disagree. The poll itself is telling for me.