Value of: Jets 1st, Mesar, Avs 2nd, One of (Harris, Ylonen, Farrell)

[The Great Weal]

That was about a week after Grier got hired and the sharks had a terrible prospect pool.

So it is possible to give up quantity to get into that range which is the complete opposite of what you said. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[dgibb10]

I think you got to name a lot more than 3 players to quantity this conversation



Nah... He's was very good in the AHL last year and I would have him grade A today. Big body, skates well, has a great shot, and is showing maturity/trust in his own end.

Mesar is B+ and Mailloux is grade A.

You can go through yourself if you want. The production comps you'll find to Mesar are guys like Chase Stillman and Jacob Perrault

 

[Habs Halifax]

You can go through yourself if you want. The production comps you'll find to Mesar are guys like Chase Stillman and Jacob Perrault

I am aware. I've looked into it for years.

It's very fair to say Mesar is a grade B+ prospect and on track to be a middle 6F type. Of course there are no guarantees in life but that's how it's tracking.

If I said Mesar was a grade A, you might have a point.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There are many other prospects on almost every team that have similar value. Mailloux has gone from being a reach, to living up to his draft position. Maybe improved slightly. I don't think he's worth a top 15 pick... Not yet at least.

Mailloux was not a reach IMO. He probably goes earlier in the 1st round if not for his "mistake".

Sorry but we are not on the same page. Mailloux is a grade A with me.

 

[CanadienShark]

Mailloux was not a reach IMO. He probably goes earlier in the 1st round if not for his "mistake".

Sorry but we are not on the same page. Mailloux is a grade A with me.

To me a grade A prospect is someone like Leonard, Michkov, Reinbacher... I have Mailloux a level below. Still a great prospect and likely NHLer. I think his upside is Burns-lite, but he's not an A prospect in my opinion.

 

[Habs Halifax]

To me a grade A prospect is someone like Leonard, Michkov, Reinbacher... I have Mailloux a level below. Still a great prospect and likely NHLer. I think his upside is Burns-lite, but he's not an A prospect in my opinion.

Those would be A+ types with me but that remains to be seen. With Mailloux, we have seen 3 seasons since his draft year. With the ones you mentioned, it's only D+1. I find it easier to track guys after they turn pro. Mailloux AHL season last year was not something to brush under the rug. Showing early signs of maturity and that size/skating/shot package bud. These are not easy to find.

If you want to narrow it down further. Mailloux would be a A- and the players you mentioned are A. Mesar would be B or on the cusp of B+. And furthermore, there is a difference with Leonard, Michkov, and Reinbacher. I just prefer to talk about this differences after we get to see more.

You're just lower with Mailloux than I am. It's OK. We are both guessing but Mailloux is indeed NHL ready and I think he's going to surprise you. No way I'm trading this kid before I get to see him for a full NHL season.

 

[The Great Weal]

Most if not all pre-draft rankings I've seen has him as an early to mid 2nd rounder at best. Even in the Habs board, we had complained that he was a reach after he was drafted. Character factors into rankings for ALL prospects. Not sure why you're ignoring that.

Who cares where pre-draft rankings had him and what we thought? Most Habs fans also thought Romanov was a massive reach, they were wrong about that. There are also reports that some teams saw Mailloux as a 1st round talent and some were still going to draft him in the 2nd round. Also, more importantly, he's only improved his stock since being drafted.

 

[Hunter368]

To me a grade A prospect is someone like Leonard, Michkov, Reinbacher... I have Mailloux a level below. Still a great prospect and likely NHLer. I think his upside is Burns-lite, but he's not an A prospect in my opinion.

Grading prospects as fans is very subjective, by some fans definition every team would have 5-6 A+ prospects, by other fans definition there might be 5-6 A+ prospects league wide at any given point. I'm not commenting specifically on any teams prospects/fans, just in general fans can be very liberal on how they label them.

 

[CanadienShark]

Who cares where pre-draft rankings had him and what we thought? Most Habs fans also thought Romanov was a massive reach, they were wrong about that. There are also reports that some teams saw Mailloux as a 1st round talent and some were still going to draft him in the 2nd round. Also, more importantly, he's only improved his stock since being drafted.

Who cares? It literally goes back to my comment about reaching. Try to keep up. What has happened since has nothing to do with my comment.

Grading prospects as fans is very subjective, by some fans definition every team would have 5-6 A+ prospects, by other fans definition there might be 5-6 A+ prospects league wide at any given point. I'm not commenting specifically on any teams prospects/fans, just in general fans can be very liberal on how they label them.

Yep, I totally agree.

 

[The Great Weal]

Who cares? It literally goes back to my comment about reaching. Try to keep up. What has happened since has nothing to do with my comment.

Reaching according to you which frankly means absolute f*** all, especially when reports have come out that other teams saw him as a 1st round talent and would have drafted him in the 2nd. You try to keep up. Your comment is strictly based off of speculation, and as mentioned, Habs fans also thought Romanov was a reach which also meant nothing in terms of his actual value.

 

[CanadienShark]

Reaching according to you which frankly means absolute f*** all, especially when reports have come out that other teams saw him as a 1st round talent and would have drafted him in the 2nd. You try to keep up. Your comment is strictly based off of speculation, and as mentioned, Habs fans also thought Romanov was a reach which also meant nothing in terms of his actual value.

Reaching according to everyone, including our fellow Habs fans. It's not speculation at all. Feel free to look up pre-draft rankings. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning Romanov and his POST-DRAFT play. You're missing the point and getting pissy about it. Relax dude.

I like the player, I'm not sure why you're arguing something not relevant.

 

[The Great Weal]

Reaching according to everyone, including our fellow Habs fans.

Again, it doesn't matter what you or I thought at the time. I'll keep repeating it since you always ignore it, Romanov was also a reach according to our fellow Habs fans. Did his value not improve when he and some mid round picks landed us the 13th OA?

It's not speculation at all. Feel free to look up pre-draft rankings.

I'm quite familiar with the reports that said that some teams saw Mailloux as a 1st round talent and would have drafted him in the 2nd which by definition doesn't make him a reach. Everyone's pre-draft rankings will be different but the only one that actually matters is the actual NHL management teams.

I'm not sure why you keep mentioning Romanov and his POST-DRAFT play.

Because he was seen as a reach according to pre-draft rankings and Habs fans and both were wrong which further proves how it literally means nothing. Mailloux has increased his value since being drafted at the end of the 1st round.

 

[CanadienShark]

Again, it doesn't matter what you or I thought at the time. I'll keep repeating it since you always ignore it, Romanov was also a reach according to our fellow Habs fans. Did his value not improve when he and some mid round picks landed us the 13th OA?

I'm quite familiar with the reports that said that some teams saw Mailloux as a 1st round talent and would have drafted him in the 2nd which by definition doesn't make him a reach. Everyone's pre-draft rankings will be different but the only one that actually matters is the actual NHL management teams.

Because he was seen as a reach according to pre-draft rankings and Habs fans and both were wrong which further proves how it literally means nothing. Mailloux has increased his value since being drafted at the end of the 1st round.

Why do you continue to bring up Romanov? He has nothing at all to do with the point I made. Yes his value improved after the draft, but that doesn't mean he wasn't considered a reach at the time.

Can you cite some reputable sources? I'll wait.

Yes, no shit he has improved since then. I keep on saying so. You again seem to be missing the point and are upset for no reason. Relax.

 

[The Great Weal]

Why do you continue to bring up Romanov? He has nothing at all to do with the point I made.

He absolutely does. You're saying Mailloux is a reach because of pre-draft rankings and what fellow Habs fans which is the exact same thing as what happened with Romanov. It's proof that it means nothing.

 

[CanadienShark]

He absolutely does. You're saying Mailloux is a reach because of pre-draft rankings and what fellow Habs fans which is the exact same thing as what happened with Romanov. It's proof that it means nothing.

He was a reach at the time according to... Everyone. That has no bearing on the future, much like draft position has no bearing on how a player develops. What is so difficult to understand? I like Mailloux. I think he's valuable. He's improved as a player and a person since the draft.

Once again, why do you continue to mention Romanov? You're arguing a complete different point here.

 

[The Great Weal]

He was a reach at the time according to... Everyone.

You mean according to people who aren't part of an NHL team's scouting management. You also said reports you've seen him ranked as an early to mid 2nd rounder at best. So how is the 2nd last pick of the 1st round compared to an early 2nd round pick considered a reach?

For the billionth time, you're acting like what fellow Habs fans thought and what pre-draft rankings ranked Mailloux has any value whatsoever, it was the exact same thing with Romanov.

 

[CanadienShark]

You mean according to people who aren't part of an NHL team's scouting management. You also said reports you've seen him ranked as an early to mid 2nd rounder at best. So how is the 2nd last pick of the 1st round compared to an early 2nd round pick considered a reach?

For the billionth time, you're acting like what fellow Habs fans thought and what pre-draft rankings ranked Mailloux has any value whatsoever, it was the exact same thing with Romanov.

At best. Is that hard to understand? Meaning even the most generous rankings did not have him as a 1st round pick. Romanov... Again? Why do you mention his name over and over and over? This is one of the dumbest "arguments" I've seen in a long time on these boards, and I've obviously been around a little while.

No need to take his pre-draft rankings as an insult. It DOES NOT MATTER. It does not affect his current value. Breathe, relax, and let's leave it alone now.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Grading prospects as fans is very subjective, by some fans definition every team would have 5-6 A+ prospects, by other fans definition there might be 5-6 A+ prospects league wide at any given point. I'm not commenting specifically on any teams prospects/fans, just in general fans can be very liberal on how they label them.

The other trend I noticed is fans with deep pools are more fair and fans with shallow pools pump up to much. I've seen this over and over again.

Also, Grading can be different with fans too. I have Generational, Blue Chip, Grade A+, A, A-, and so on.

Mailloux to me is A or A-. He certainly has top 4RD potential and it's D+3 last year. Much easier to evaluate after you see what they do when they turn pro.

5-6 A+ each season in the entire league? That depends on how you grade them and what a A means.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You mean according to people who aren't part of an NHL team's scouting management. You also said reports you've seen him ranked as an early to mid 2nd rounder at best. So how is the 2nd last pick of the 1st round compared to an early 2nd round pick considered a reach?

For the billionth time, you're acting like what fellow Habs fans thought and what pre-draft rankings ranked Mailloux has any value whatsoever, it was the exact same thing with Romanov.

Agreed. He was certainly not a reach in terms of his on ice numbers. In a redraft, Mailloux goes much, much earlier. Probably 10-15 range (not 100% sure). If not for his mistake, he probably is not on the board when the Habs picked that year. Goes 20-30 range. Why wouldn't he be targeted? Got size, great skating, and a very good shot. Rare RD.

Other fans can laugh or nit pick all they want. He's a grade A for me. NHL ready and I do think he reaches top 4D. Maybe needs one or two NHL seasons.

One of the better rookies in the AHL last year.

 

[Garbageyuk]

OP could throw in Slackoffsky and I still wouldn't accept that trash offer.

Tf is this? lmao

 

[Xirik]

Going through the 2021 Draft I would say he'd sit 25th easily and compared to some players could be argued down another 5 spots to 20th.

If you don't count goalies then 18th.


Personally any A tier prospect has to have only small holes in their game and has enough talent in other area's to cover said holes.

 

[CanadienShark]

Going through the 2021 Draft I would say he'd sit 25th easily and compared to some players could be argued down another 5 spots to 20th.

If you don't count goalies then 18th.


Personally any A tier prospect has to have only small holes in their game and has enough talent in other area's to cover said holes.

In a re-draft? Yeah, that seems about right.

 

[AmeriHab]

Halak won over 200 games after leaving Montreal, with a SV % over .910 in 9 of his 14 seasons thereafter.

Ryder had a 27 & 35 goal season ( & 3x18g seasons) to go with a 17pt/25 game run to the cup with the Bruins.

The Halak, Ryder, 2nd trade proposal was, at the time, and doubly so in hindsight, a perfect example of how blind biased disdain for all things Montreal leads to idiotic takes.

This pick & prospect group would be lucky to surpass the actual value Halak & Ryder created for the teams they went after leaving Montreal.

Try again lol

I probably wasn't clear, I was simply inferring that this will be the quick answer to halal Ryder and a 2nd that everyone posted but it never amounted to an actual value. Wasn't to be taken so seriously

 

[Petes2424]

Any team drafting in the 10-15 range interested in this? Has a chance to back fire on the Habs but we would like a 2nd dart in the top 15.

* Jets 1st (24-27 range)

* Mesar. A late 1st in the 22 draft. Great skater with very good vision/play making. Had a very good D+2 with a good playoffs. International numbers with the Slovaks are solid. Hate to trade him but you got to give to get.

* Avs 2nd

* Young NHL depth pieces. One of Harris, Ylonen, Farrell.

Great example of putting too much stock in rankings and public mock drafts. There’s now 9-10 teams who don’t even use Central Scouting at all. Dallas, Detroit, St Louis, Edmonton, Anaheim, Tampa, Carolina, NYR, and a couple of others, have been moving to become fully in-house with scouting. Central Scouting has become more for the media and fans than the teams.

How many times in the last few years, do we see people on this site think someone was picked too high, and it turns out the player probably should’ve been drafted even higher?

It happens more today than ever before. Yet every year there’s people screaming “omg they reached” as the draft doesn’t go how public ranking said it should.

In this draft, the Canadians WILL have a completely different 11-32 than other teams. Detroit will likely have players like Ryder Ritchie ranked 15th and Canadians have him 25th. Or Montreal has Letourneau rated 15th and Detroit has him 35th.

Teams don’t just go down the public lists and pick that way. If they like Ryder Ritchie at 15th better than Eiserman, but had Connelly, Hage and Boisvert ahead of them both, but they’re off the board already, they’re taking Ritchie… and Eiserman will continue to fall. Even though the 3 teams at 12, 13 and 14 had Eiserman over Ritchie.

Look how many people mocked Detroit for taking Seider over Broberg?? Thinking somehow Yzerman was the only one who had him that high. Edmonton would’ve taken him at 8OA. Imagine that, if Detroit took Zegras or Couzens btw. Edmonton would be in a great place right now.

Anyway. There’s literally a 50% chance the player they want at 15, will be there at 24. Or at least a player they had at 16 or 17 maybe. St Louis would’ve taken Danielson at 10OA last year if Detroit took Dvorvsky at 9OA instead. Danielson was never going 17-20th overall, like we seen in most public drafts. As it stands, he looks like a steal at 9th overall.

It’s so wide open anymore, especially in a draft like this one. Where every forward has a legit concern. Some teams value certain concerns less than others, because they think they can fix those concerns.

So you draft the best you can, and then you develop your draft picks. You don’t turn around and trade Mesar 2 years later, just to trade up. You picked him because you have confidence in your development staff to develop him.

 

[TBF1972]

I am aware. I've looked into it for years.

It's very fair to say Mesar is a grade B+ prospect and on track to be a middle 6F type. Of course there are no guarantees in life but that's how it's tracking.

If I said Mesar was a grade A, you might have a point.

stillman is a b+ prospect.