Value of: Shea Theodore

[ameselare]

Vancouver is maybe a good fit? I've seen that some Vancouver fans think so. They have a lot of guys they want to keep, especially Zadorov and Joshua, and not enough cap to keep all of them and give Hronek a big raise, so maybe this is something they would look at if they end up trading Hronek out. That way, there might be enough money for Theodore, Zadorov and Joshua. Maybe Lindholm too but IDK.

Theodore is an interesting fit for the Canucks considering we already have Hughes and Soucy on the left side. Soucy (and Zadorov) can play on the right but he plays better on the left and Tocchet doesn't like playing guys on their off side. If they want Soucy on the 3rd pairing with Myers (he'll likely get a cheaper hometown deal) then I can see them being interested in Theodore, but then they definitely will not be able to pay Zadorov (and I hope they do not keep him if he wants a crazy number). Doesn't make sense to sign Zadorov + trade for Theodore, would make more sense to trade for Theodore + sign Hronek. I think Skjei, Montour, and Tanev would be better targets for the Canucks but this all depends on how much these guys want. No doubt that Theodore is a great player.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Ask from Montreal with Roy/Kolesar as apart of the deal as well ?

 

[DJN21]

Otherwise I’d be ‘titillated.’ Size can’t be thought, and he certainly fits the Knights’ blueprint in that regard.

All I want to see next opening night is Jonathan Marchessault wearing his 81 in GOLD. Not the biggest fan of losing “Slim Shea-T”, but if picking up a Wallinder-type in that developmental window enables Vegas to hold onto Marchy, it’s a fair trade….a good trade, and worth it.

Shit, even dampens the loss of Edstrom.

I cringed so hard reading this....

 

[Wallet Inspector]

I'd love him on the Sens, tho his injury history is a bit worrying.

 

[biturbo19]

Theodore is an interesting fit for the Canucks considering we already have Hughes and Soucy on the left side. Soucy (and Zadorov) can play on the right but he plays better on the left and Tocchet doesn't like playing guys on their off side. If they want Soucy on the 3rd pairing with Myers (he'll likely get a cheaper hometown deal) then I can see them being interested in Theodore, but then they definitely will not be able to pay Zadorov (and I hope they do not keep him if he wants a crazy number). Doesn't make sense to sign Zadorov + trade for Theodore, would make more sense to trade for Theodore + sign Hronek. I think Skjei, Montour, and Tanev would be better targets for the Canucks but this all depends on how much these guys want. No doubt that Theodore is a great player.

If Tocchet/Foote are going to insist on playing Theodore on his strong side when he's kind of lost there, it would be a non-starter. I don't think they're that pedantic about handedness though. They've let Cole play a decent bit there and heck, they were even double-shifting Hughes there for a bit in the playoffs. When it comes to a guy like Theodore who prefers to play his off side...i think they'd accommodate. He clearly doesn't struggle in moving the puck on his weak side. AV/Bowness were pretty picky about handedness in general, but they embraced Ehrhoff playing his "off" side in earnest. I'm not sure he ever played a minute on his "natural" side with Vancouver.


But to me at least, it really works as a way to actually afford to keep Zadorov. It does basically mean Hronek is out. But that's an upgrade to me. And the trade package is probably more or less just...whatever they can get from someone else for Hronek. Which seems like roughly fair value...in a roundabout way because a straight swap makes no sense for Vegas.


Would obviously have to be done with an understanding that Theodore would sign a roughly Hronek-esque contract with the "hometown" team in Vancouver. But it works in kicking the can a year down the road, with his small, easy to handle $5.2M deal for 2024-25. That lets you spend the $5M or whatever Zadorov is going to cost, to partner up with him.


Leaves you back in the wilderness when it comes to finding a Hughes partner for the time being. At some point in the not too distant future, i think Willander is slated for that job...but not something you can take to the bank, and doesn't fix the near-term. But i think Hughes has proven that he can play good hockey with a lot of "lesser" players if he has to. Including a UFA Christopher Tanev.


If you can reconfigure the defence as something like:

Hughes-Tanev
Zadorov-Theodore
Soucy-Cheaper Giraffe


...i think that's definitely still moving in an overall positive direction and improving. And is actually more cap-feasible than trying to retain Hronek and Zadorov for next year.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Theodore is an interesting fit for the Canucks considering we already have Hughes and Soucy on the left side. Soucy (and Zadorov) can play on the right but he plays better on the left and Tocchet doesn't like playing guys on their off side. If they want Soucy on the 3rd pairing with Myers (he'll likely get a cheaper hometown deal) then I can see them being interested in Theodore, but then they definitely will not be able to pay Zadorov (and I hope they do not keep him if he wants a crazy number). Doesn't make sense to sign Zadorov + trade for Theodore, would make more sense to trade for Theodore + sign Hronek. I think Skjei, Montour, and Tanev would be better targets for the Canucks but this all depends on how much these guys want. No doubt that Theodore is a great player.

I doubt Vancouver can afford more than 2 of Lindholm, Joshua, Lafferty, Blueger, Zadorov, Myers, Cole. MAYBE 3 but probably 2. Theodore coming in would mean Hronek going out, probably, as I think VAN is definitely signing at least one half-decent UFA defenseman.

Myers = you can't have both Zadorov / a top 4 D and Joshua

Not sure VAN would prioritize Myers...

 

[biturbo19]

I could see Florida wanting to add Theodore, but not having the assets.

Toronto? But it's probably not a smart move IMO. Their GM could disagree with me. Only makes sense if Marner is involved, or Marner returns assets from a third team which are then flipped to Vegas for Theodore. It's maybe too complicated.

I could definitely see Rangers wanting to move Trouba out and replace with Theodore. That would probably involve a third team though, as Vegas is looking to move a D out without bringing another back, and also Trouba can block a bunch of teams based on his NTC.

Dallas could make sense, except for the fact that all 4 of their top 4 D would be left handed. Not ideal at all. Outside of that, Dallas DOES want a high end right-side D, and all of Benn, Faksa, Dadonov, Lindell and Suter come off the books next summer when Theodore would get a raise. It's conceivable that Dallas adds Theodore now but ends up keeping him long-term. Like I said though, do they really want 4 left-handed top 4 D?

St Louis works, but only if they're moving Krug, Parayko, Faulk or Leddy out this summer. Otherwise, no chance in hell IMO.

Edmonton makes a lot of sense in theory, but they don't have the assets. They'd probably only have to dump Ceci somewhere to make it work, which seems very reasonable based on Ceci's cap hit and only 1 year of term.

I could see it being a good fit with the Kings (with no extension, as a 1 year rental), but they aren't a legit contender right now and probably shouldn't be paying assets for one year rentals just yet.

I think Seattle is a good fit, IF they think they can extend Theodore long-term. No reason for them to bring him in as a 1 year rental.

Vancouver is maybe a good fit? I've seen that some Vancouver fans think so. They have a lot of guys they want to keep, especially Zadorov and Joshua, and not enough cap to keep all of them and give Hronek a big raise, so maybe this is something they would look at if they end up trading Hronek out. That way, there might be enough money for Theodore, Zadorov and Joshua. Maybe Lindholm too but IDK.

Pretty good breakdown overall. I don't see the Rangers actually being that interested though, even if they managed to move Trouba. He's their hard minutes guy and Theodore would be an absolutely useless partner for K'Andre Miller. They're way too similar and neither is anything resembling "stay at home".

Toronto is interesting in that Theodore is probably exactly what they need, but i get the impression he's not what Treliving is going to look for.

Blues is tough even if they do move someone like Faulk with that unwieldy contract. They're sort of in limbo right now and i'm not sure a UFA-age defenceman is what they're looking for. Same problem they're facing with Buchnevich.

Kings don't really work as they've already spent all their assets on other things and i'd imagine they want to keep Gavrikov and ideally Roy if they can.

Oilers really need another Ekholm more than they need a Theodore i think, even if they had the assets.



Vancouver is a really interesting one though. Not only a hometown kid...but he'd help a lot with their cap crunch next year, at least kicking the problem another year down the road. But it'd be a hugely complicated endeavour that would involve shipping out Hronek and then flipping whatever that returns to Vegas for Theodore. And also still leaves them back with searching for a partner for Hughes. But personally, i'd be all for it...if you can orchestrate everything and pull the right strings at the right times to have it all work out as basically a Hronek for Theodore...with like eleventy steps in between.

 

[biturbo19]

I doubt Vancouver can afford more than 2 of Lindholm, Joshua, Lafferty, Blueger, Zadorov, Myers, Cole. MAYBE 3 but probably 2. Theodore coming in would mean Hronek going out, probably, as I think VAN is definitely signing at least one half-decent UFA defenseman.

Myers = you can't have both Zadorov / a top 4 D and Joshua

Not sure VAN would prioritize Myers...

Yeah. This is exactly why i can see Theodore making some sense.

It's looking increasingly unlikely that they can afford both of Zadorov+Hronek extensions. Without absolutely gutting everything else.

There's no way you can realistically add Theodore while keeping Hronek either. But i think you'd have to look at it like a swap of the two. And the way that cheap cap hit for Theodore next year kicks the can a year down the road where hopefully you've got the cap rising and maybe some other cheap young players pushing their way into the lineup.


Myers is basically a case of...if he'll re-sign for cheap, would be happy to keep the stupid Giraffe. But if he wants "market value" he's gone.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Oh definitely not.

But that's why a Theodore trade for a top 6 RW makes sense. There aren't any dumps to make to free up cap. The options to change the roster are basically let Marchie walk and sign a replacement (Stamkos/Reinhart?) or sign Marchie/_____ and trade Theo for a forward.

It's hilarious that you think Vegas has a chance in hell of signing Stammer or Reinhart. They don't have the cap space to keep their own guys but they are gonna sign the top free agents on the market? Please.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

rs is basically a case of...if he'll re-sign for cheap, would be happy to keep the stupid Giraffe. But if he wants "market value" he's gone.

I'm not a capologist but, if you look at who's already signed, then guestimate RFA new cap hits, I can't see all 4 of Hughes, Hronek / Zadorov / whomever, Soucy and Myers fitting under the cap of you're also signing a UFA forward like Lindholm or Joshua. A forward is very needed so I anticipate that happening. I would also think that you only bring Myers back if your plan is for him to be your #4 guy or lower. Therefore... where's the cap?

 

[biturbo19]

I'm not a capologist but, if you look at who's already signed, then guestimate RFA new cap hits, I can't see all 4 of Hughes, Hronek / Zadorov / whomever, Soucy and Myers fitting under the cap of you're also signing a UFA forward like Lindholm or Joshua. A forward is very needed so I anticipate that happening. I would also think that you only bring Myers back if your plan is for him to be your #4 guy or lower. Therefore... where's the cap?

That's the real issue.

That's where i think Theodore at $5.2M would be real helpful for the year at least. Compared to the $7-8M Hronek is wanting.


Without pivoting like that somehow...i just don't see how they can keep Hronek @ $7-8M + Zadorov @ even $5M + Joshy @ probably ~$4M. Much less try to fit Lindholm in or retain even one of Bluegers/Lafferty.


Swapping Hronek out for Theodore would make them better while also shaving a cool $3M+ from next year's balance sheet, which is probably the difference in retaining at least one more of those other guys.

 

[ameselare]

That's the real issue.

That's where i think Theodore at $5.2M would be real helpful for the year at least. Compared to the $7-8M Hronek is wanting.


Without pivoting like that somehow...i just don't see how they can keep Hronek @ $7-8M + Zadorov @ even $5M + Joshy @ probably ~$4M. Much less try to fit Lindholm in or retain even one of Bluegers/Lafferty.


Swapping Hronek out for Theodore would make them better while also shaving a cool $3M+ from next year's balance sheet, which is probably the difference in retaining at least one more of those other guys.

That's a good point re: Theodore being cost-controlled for one more year. I just don't know who would play with Hughes. They cannot trade for Theodore and also sign Zadorov, they'd have way too many LD. They'd need to go out and replenish the right side. They can keep Myers if he takes a cheaper deal but then they need two top four RHD, not an easy feat. Say they go out and get Montour or Skjei - those guys are going to want to get paid, too.

Either way the Canucks cannot be signing Hronek at over $7M and/or Zadorov at over $5M, they do not have nearly enough cap space for that.

 

[biturbo19]

That's a good point re: Theodore being cost-controlled for one more year. I just don't know who would play with Hughes. They cannot trade for Theodore and also sign Zadorov, they'd have way too many LD. They'd need to go out and replenish the right side. They can keep Myers if he takes a cheaper deal but then they need two top four RHD, not an easy feat. Say they go out and get Montour or Skjei - those guys are going to want to get paid, too.

Either way the Canucks cannot be signing Hronek at over $7M and/or Zadorov at over $5M, they do not have nearly enough cap space for that.

Where the heck are the Canucks getting the cap space to even talk about names like Montour and Skjei as UFA ads?


The whole point is...something like Teddy's small $5.2M cap hit is exactly the sort of thing that would let them sign Zadorov.


It means Hronek is gone. That's the only way it works. But that's fine.

I don't really understand the math you're doing here. The way i see it...

Hronek + Zadorov = ~$13M.

Theodore + Zadorov = ~$10.2M.


That's the whole point. Plus Theodore being a better player than Hronek.



For 2025-26...well...that's a problem for later.

 

[ameselare]

Where the heck are the Canucks getting the cap space to even talk about names like Montour and Skjei as UFA ads?


The whole point is...something like Teddy's small $5.2M cap hit is exactly the sort of thing that would let them sign Zadorov.


It means Hronek is gone. That's the only way it works. But that's fine.

I don't really understand the math you're doing here. The way i see it...

Hronek + Zadorov = ~$13M.

Theodore + Zadorov = ~$10.2M.


That's the whole point. Plus Theodore being a better player than Hronek.



For 2025-26...well...that's a problem for later.

They don't, I'm just saying I'd rather them pay for an upgrade on the right side than overpay guys like Zadorov and Hronek, or give up too much for Theodore. If Theodore is serviceable on the right side, they should absolutely go out and get him. Run, don't walk.

I just don't think the Canucks are winning any sort of bidding war for Zadorov, someone will overpay for him and I don't want that team to be the Canucks, they can't afford it.

 

[biturbo19]

They don't, I'm just saying I'd rather them pay for an upgrade on the right side than overpay guys like Zadorov and Hronek, or give up too much for Theodore. If Theodore is serviceable on the right side, they should absolutely go out and get him. Run, don't walk.

I just don't think the Canucks are winning any sort of bidding war for Zadorov, someone will overpay for him and I don't want that team to be the Canucks, they can't afford it.

And Theodore is exactly what an upgrade on the right side looks like. And likely to cost a little less than half of what Hronek does for next year. And probably about the same beyond that...So...

 

[ameselare]

And Theodore is exactly what an upgrade on the right side looks like. And likely to cost a little less than half of what Hronek does for next year. And probably about the same beyond that...So...

Listen, if they can go out and get Theodore and he can play well with Hughes, I will be absolutely thrilled. I just don't want them to overpay for anyone else (e.g. Zadorov) just because they'll have extra money from Theodore's cheaper contract in 24-25. Would rather them think bigger picture than that.

 

[biturbo19]

Listen, if they can go out and get Theodore and he can play well with Hughes, I will be absolutely thrilled. I just don't want them to overpay for anyone else (e.g. Zadorov) just because they'll have extra money from Theodore's cheaper contract in 24-25. Would rather them think bigger than that.

I don't think there's any reason to believe Theodore would play well with Hughes. That's kind of stupid.

But i don't understand why that's critical in the first place. Hughes has shown he can play with absolute nobodies. And there are plenty of other options out there to bring in a somebody to play with him as well.


Hronek ---> Theodore would be about rebalancing the pairings, more than anything. To create twice as many ice-tilting pairings. And Zadorov is a pretty much prototypical partner for what Theodore has thrived with. He's a much better, more mobile McNabb.

 

[ameselare]

I don't think there's any reason to believe Theodore would play well with Hughes. That's kind of stupid.

But i don't understand why that's critical in the first place. Hughes has shown he can play with absolute nobodies. And there are plenty of other options out there to bring in a somebody to play with him as well.


Hronek ---> Theodore would be about rebalancing the pairings, more than anything. To create twice as many ice-tilting pairings. And Zadorov is a pretty much prototypical partner for what Theodore has thrived with. He's a much better, more mobile McNabb.

Hughes can play with nobodies, but that doesn't mean he should. Again, I just do not want to overpay for Zadorov. I'm not sold on him being a top 4 D moving forward but if the coaching + management staff is then fine, they know better than me anyway.

 

[biturbo19]

Hughes can play with nobodies, but that doesn't mean he should. Again, I just do not want to overpay for Zadorov. I'm not sold on him being a top 4 D moving forward but if the coaching + management staff is then fine, they know better than me anyway.

I mean...it's not ideal to have Hughes stuck back with filler guys. But the cap situation means that something's gotta give.

If you give Hronek his $7-8M...that means you're losing Zadorov. And you're losing more than that too most likely...because you still need to find a couple at least competent Top-4D to play for you and you're not finding those for less than $4M a piece. So if you do it that way...you're essentially bringing back more or less the same roster...but worse.


Right now...the Canucks playoff Top-4D are...Hughes...and an RFA seeking a huge raise, a UFA and another UFA. And the 5 guy is also a UFA.