Any experience with the HSL - Hockey Super League (minor hockey in AB / BC)?

[krown]

A good friend of mine had his 2009 goalie son play for the Vancouver Golden Panthers in the HSL. He left BWC to go play and regretted it. They played half a season with promises of the moon. The team had a couple of good players, but the rest were apparently average at best. No better than any of the kids at BWC. so the skill level of hockey wasn't as high as my buddy expected. Then, the "owners" of the team went bankrupt and the league had to take over the team. In January, the kid decided to go back to BWC because the team had gone downhill so quickly. Unfortunately, since he had left, he had to play U13 A4 vs playing A1 if he stayed with the club. In summary, it wasn't worth it at all.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I don't wake up every morning giving a crap about the HSL. It always sounds like you are looking for the next idea to help your kid make the next level. There are some principles that are always true.

1. If you are a good player, they will find you. It doesn't matter if you play Club, HSL, Academy....etc
2. The key to success is making a plan based on the player. Off-season, in-season. Rest. Training. Nutrition. Other sports.
3. There is no magic ingredient that creates a successful hockey player. Overbearing parents end up ruining more hockey players then helping them succeed.

Hey dude - remind me not to agree with you again then. Never thought you did gave a crap one way or another about HSL - you were just answering my questions.

Guy in charge of my kids spring team came by today and talked to some of us dads at practice. I don't mind the guy and believe him. He's behind the HSL team my wife got talked into signing my kid into trying out for. He commented that it's all on a non-profit, cost recovery basis. As a lawyer there's a difference at law between a charity and not, but he's probably not making much money from this I think.

But what I'm not hearing is some compelling case why it would be significantly better for my kids development.

And again - I asked my kid today if he was still enjoying hockey. The day he says no is fine with me. He said yes.

I'm just trying to get as much info as I can about a frankly bizarre process that I don't have any experience in.

A good friend of mine had his 2009 goalie son play for the Vancouver Golden Panthers in the HSL. He left BWC to go play and regretted it. They played half a season with promises of the moon. The team had a couple of good players, but the rest were apparently average at best. No better than any of the kids at BWC. so the skill level of hockey wasn't as high as my buddy expected. Then, the "owners" of the team went bankrupt and the league had to take over the team. In January, the kid decided to go back to BWC because the team had gone downhill so quickly. Unfortunately, since he had left, he had to play U13 A4 vs playing A1 if he stayed with the club. In summary, it wasn't worth it at all.

Sounds rough for your friend and his kid. Thanks for the info.

 

[Oil Gauge]

Hey dude - remind me not to agree with you again then. Never thought you did gave a crap one way or another about HSL - you were just answering my questions.

Guy in charge of my kids spring team came by today and talked to some of us dads at practice. I don't mind the guy and believe him. He's behind the HSL team my wife got talked into signing my kid into trying out for. He commented that it's all on a non-profit, cost recovery basis. As a lawyer there's a difference at law between a charity and not, but he's probably not making much money from this I think.

But what I'm not hearing is some compelling case why it would be significantly better for my kids development.

And again - I asked my kid today if he was still enjoying hockey. The day he says no is fine with me. He said yes.

I'm just trying to get as much info as I can about a frankly bizarre process that I don't have any experience in.


Sounds rough for your friend and his kid. Thanks for the info.

Keep in mind that the HSL teams are franchises, so one teams experience can be wildly different than another.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Keep in mind that the HSL teams are franchises, so one teams experience can be wildly different than another.

But - isn't that kind of a knock against it?

Minor hockey tries really hard to give kids a more-or-less equal experience. You're guaranteed a team to play on, efforts are made to make sure teams are balanced, and ultimately all under the guidance of the overall Hockey Canada system.

HSL (and leagues like it) all kind of seem like the wild west. You could make it onto a really awesome team with an amazing coach... or not. Your team could wind up being the league punching-bag, with a real asshole of a coach while having no real means to address the situation.

 

[Oil Gauge]

But - isn't that kind of a knock against it?

Minor hockey tries really hard to give kids a more-or-less equal experience. You're guaranteed a team to play on, efforts are made to make sure teams are balanced, and ultimately all under the guidance of the overall Hockey Canada system.

HSL (and leagues like it) all kind of seem like the wild west. You could make it onto a really awesome team with an amazing coach... or not. Your team could wind up being the league punching-bag, with a real asshole of a coach while having no real means to address the situation.

It could be. I don't think they give out franchises to anyone though. I think they have to show that they will be able to provide a good program.

The players get to choose if they play for an organization, it's not like they sign up and then are put on a random team. You should know what you are getting into before the season.

 

[Yukon Joe]

It could be. I don't think they give out franchises to anyone though. I think they have to show that they will be able to provide a good program.

The players get to choose if they play for an organization, it's not like they sign up and then are put on a random team. You should know what you are getting into before the season.

But that's the thing - how do you know what you're getting into? You can be sold a pretty good story by the team "owner", but I don't know how to evaluate how truthful that is.

Heck that's why I started this thread in the first place.

 

[Oil Gauge]

But that's the thing - how do you know what you're getting into? You can be sold a pretty good story by the team "owner", but I don't know how to evaluate how truthful that is.

Heck that's why I started this thread in the first place.

Talk to some of the players/parents on the team.

 

[Goingintothe3rd]

This is a bit of a long shot but I'll throw it out there - does anyone have any experience with the HSL (Hockey Super League) in Alberta or BC?

It's not recognized or supported by Hockey Canada. It's supposedly an "elite" development option for kids. Kids play "showcase"-style games where they play 4 games over a weekend once per month with practices the rest of the time. Sounds like lots of travel is involved.

I ask because my kid has gotten invites from a couple of different teams to come and try out. I know it's grown a lot, but because we've always been in Hockey Canada accredited programs I don't have any first hand experience with it. I'm 95% sure we'll stick with what we know, but curious if anyone did have first-hand experience.

HSL - Hockey Super League : Website by RAMP InterActive

Website by RAMPInterActive.com

hockeysuperleague.ca

Hey Joe,
Great question. Does your son need more than he gets through current program? This will send you either to seek it or not. Wouldn’t be concerned about what the leagues are called. Be focused on coaching and development.

 

[Yukon Joe]

So yesterday was the WHL bantam draft. Now my kid playing in the WHL has never been the point of him playing minor hockey, but I took a look at it just as a rough proxy to try and compare where "the best" kids are coming from.

So for starters it's clear the hockey academies are where it is at these days. Just looking at kids from the Edmonton area as that's what I know NAX and OHA cleaned up. But that costs like $30-$40k, and we're not doing that.

But I wanted to compare HSL kids versus the Hockey Canada affiliated clubs. Two kids were drafted out of the same AA club - SSAC (which happens to be our local club). Four kids were drafted out of local HSL - but all out of the same team (Saints).

Meh - pretty much a toss-up I think.

 

[Goingintothe3rd]

Whatever you decide my advice is this. Never bypass the skills to chase a team or parent group. Find a program with a great coach and stick with them. It is the difference maker.

 

[Oil Gauge]

So yesterday was the WHL bantam draft. Now my kid playing in the WHL has never been the point of him playing minor hockey, but I took a look at it just as a rough proxy to try and compare where "the best" kids are coming from.

So for starters it's clear the hockey academies are where it is at these days. Just looking at kids from the Edmonton area as that's what I know NAX and OHA cleaned up. But that costs like $30-$40k, and we're not doing that.

But I wanted to compare HSL kids versus the Hockey Canada affiliated clubs. Two kids were drafted out of the same AA club - SSAC (which happens to be our local club). Four kids were drafted out of local HSL - but all out of the same team (Saints).

Meh - pretty much a toss-up I think.

The HSL has an article up on their website. They had 6 current players drafted all from their 2 SPHA teams. 3 of which went to the Seattle Thunderbirds. The Thunderbirds, HSL, and SPHA are all owned by Silent Ice, so take that at what its worth.

HSL - Hockey Super League : Website by RAMP InterActive

Website by RAMPInterActive.com

hockeysuperleague.ca

They also had 11 players drafted that played in their league in 20-21. I think some kids go back to minor hockey or an academy for their draft year. 5 of the 11 also came from the west coast wild, whom didn't have a 2007 team in the HSL this year.

 

[BadgerBruce]

The HSL has an article up on their website. They had 6 current players drafted all from their 2 SPHA teams. 3 of which went to the Seattle Thunderbirds. The Thunderbirds, HSL, and SPHA are all owned by Silent Ice, so take that at what its worth.

HSL - Hockey Super League : Website by RAMP InterActive

Website by RAMPInterActive.com

hockeysuperleague.ca

They also had 11 players drafted that played in their league in 20-21. I think some kids go back to minor hockey or an academy for their draft year. 5 of the 11 also came from the west coast wild, whom didn't have a 2007 team in the HSL this year.

This is interesting. The Western Hockey League obviously has different rules than the Ontario Hockey League, which prohibits drafting players from non-Hockey Canada sanctioned programs.

 

[Yukon Joe]

So I was talking with a ton of other parents during last weekends tournament about this topic. Perhaps predictably most are content with what their kid is currently doing.

Parents whose kids made AA last year are pretty content to stay in AA, and tended to bad mouth HSL. Parents whose kids didn't make it to AA are content to try out for AA again. Parents who aren't interested in AA still aren't interested. I don't think any of these kids played HSL last year anyways.

I got an interesting perspective on the JPHL which was mentioned from some of our AA parents. Apparently the JPHL *is* Hockey Canada affiliated. They're taking the Hockey Academy model (for Edmonton, OHA and NAX) and stripping out the academic part to reduce cost. So it costs $12,500 instead of $30k, but you're responsible for getting your kid to and from school and hockey. The JPHL teams are owned by the same groups than own some HSL teams, which is why it's all HSL kids moving over. The advantage for them is that by being Hockey Canada affiliated that makes you eligible for some Team Alberta-type teams.

My wife on the other hand was talking with a guy who does various skating camps (and my son has attended a few). He was very bullish on HSL saying it's more directed towards development. Of course I wonder if he doesn't get more business from those teams though (although he does get some from community and club hockey). He apparently said how political club and community hockey is.

Which is true - the blessing and curse for club and community hockey is it's a true non-profit. It has a board of directors, elections, and a whole bureaucratic procedure that can sometimes be maddening. But it also gives you a route to have your voice heard. On my middle kid we used the "Parent liaison" when we thought a team manager was stepping out of line and we were satisfied with that process.

Private clubs are owned by one guy, or a small group of guys. If you don't like what they're doing you can vote with your feet the following year, but that's about your only recourse.


Anyways, sorry for the mini-essay. A handful of you had opinions on these topics so I thought I'd post it. Interested in any thoughts pro or con.

There's still a bit of time. I think the traditional AA club hockey is the best path forward, and going down to community isn't a terrible option if he doesn't make it. When asked that's the path my kid wants to go - try out for our AA club. My wife though isn't sure, and who knows might convince my kid otherwise.


Edit: Got an email saying my kid made the HSL team (never doubted that). Fees are $3400, which is comparable to AA. The guy my wife was talking to - it's his company that does hockey development for this team so of course he'd talk it up.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Okay, I'll stop replying to myself after one last post.

I finally got the best advice I have on this question. Reached out to a parent/coach I know who knows my son. This guy played U-Sports hockey, and as I found out does some scouting for an AJHL team, so he watches HSL and AA games. He certainly wasn't negative on HSL. For my sons age he likes that they start to introduce hitting next year (it would be one year later in affiliated hockey). There's some good teams and programs in HSL. He did like that their coaches are comparatively well paid. He did comment that some HSL teams are owned by the same groups that own some junior teams (both WHL and Junior A) and that from those teams it can be a bit of a pipeline. He didn't spend as much time on AA/club hockey, but had nothing bad to say about them either.

For this guy though the big factor though was that the team we've been working with is a brand new team. It mind wind up being a fantastic team and organization, or it might not.

This coach felt my son had an excellent chance at making his AA team, and that would be the better development path for him. I think he might have said that regardless, but being a new team made it an easier decision.

 

[iamjdg]

My son has experience with HSL. We are metro Vancouver BC based family. Relative to our minor hockey association U15 rep division I think our HSL academy team offers superior development and competition as the best kids leave minor hockey here after U13 for CSSHL academy and zone teams. My son has not been able to make our zone team, this would have been our first choice over rep minor hockey. I believe my son could make a varsity CSSHL team but we don’t want to pay that much money and make him change high schools. My son says he still wants to play high level hockey, go for a junior B team at some point. So I thought private academy was the best chance and I was willing to pay more than we do in minor hockey rep. I have seen my sons development over a year of HSL private academy vs minor rep hockey, and he advanced more. I think paying more money can get you better development but you have to spend it at the right places. Case in point BWC and NSWC in our region are winter clubs that play against minor hockey and they are way more expensive. But over the years I have seen how much better their teams are. I’ve seen winter club teams my sons minor hockey rep team beat soundly in the beginning of the year and then we play them later in the year and they have closed the gap. If I could go back in time I would have enrolled my son in a winter club for the better development. We spend a lot of money on hockey because my son is keen and we are in the fortunate position to do so. I don’t expect a return on my investment. But I can understand families not wanting or being able to spend this much money on hockey. High level hockey is locked out for lower income families except those with exceptional players. I didn’t know the history of CSSHL and BC Hockey/Hockey Canada, but I think is terrible for BC Hockey/Hockey Canada to endorse the very expensive, rip your kid out of high school CSSHL, but they consider leagues like HSL rogue, that are more affordable than CSSHL and don’t make you change high schools.

 

[iamjdg]

A good friend of mine had his 2009 goalie son play for the Vancouver Golden Panthers in the HSL. He left BWC to go play and regretted it. They played half a season with promises of the moon. The team had a couple of good players, but the rest were apparently average at best. No better than any of the kids at BWC. so the skill level of hockey wasn't as high as my buddy expected. Then, the "owners" of the team went bankrupt and the league had to take over the team. In January, the kid decided to go back to BWC because the team had gone downhill so quickly. Unfortunately, since he had left, he had to play U13 A4 vs playing A1 if he stayed with the club. In summary, it wasn't worth it at all.

That’s unfortunate. But it’s more reflective of the panthers organization than all of HSL. But that is a real risk, new teams starting up to join HSL.

 

[Yukon Joe]

My son has experience with HSL. We are metro Vancouver BC based family.

Hey thanks @iamjdg for the feedback. I'm glad you're happy with the HSL.

We notified the owner(?) of the HSL team we were dealing with that my 2010 kid would not be joining the team. He didn't reply directly, but did send a group email about all the benefits of the HSL model. It included parts about how diluted minor hockey teams are these days due to HSL.

I mean I guess this is just life - but I hate how confusing this all is. I have a kid who loves hockey, and who I think is very good (but probably not elite). I make a good salary so I'm willing to spend some money (but not without limit). I wish it was more obvious what route my kid should take.

 

[Slats432]

Hey thanks @iamjdg for the feedback. I'm glad you're happy with the HSL.

We notified the owner(?) of the HSL team we were dealing with that my 2010 kid would not be joining the team. He didn't reply directly, but did send a group email about all the benefits of the HSL model. It included parts about how diluted minor hockey teams are these days due to HSL.

I mean I guess this is just life - but I hate how confusing this all is. I have a kid who loves hockey, and who I think is very good (but probably not elite). I make a good salary so I'm willing to spend some money (but not without limit). I wish it was more obvious what route my kid should take.

You over think it.

 

[Yukon Joe]

You over think it.

Entirely possible.

 

[Slats432]

Find a team/club/HSL team to try out for. Well within your budget. If he has buddies he played with last year trying for club, Then go club. If all his buddies are going to HSL, go there.

You will not be able to pick a perfect path to for a player to achieve their goals. It is not a straight line. Some coaches like big players, small players, fast players, physical players, chatty players, quiet players.

I coached U18AA last year and I liked all my players, but some based on skill, injury, talent, effort, attitude, received different levels of opportunity throughout the year. You just have to try your best at all times and the rest takes care of itself.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Find a team/club/HSL team to try out for. Well within your budget. If he has buddies he played with last year trying for club, Then go club. If all his buddies are going to HSL, go there.

You will not be able to pick a perfect path to for a player to achieve their goals. It is not a straight line. Some coaches like big players, small players, fast players, physical players, chatty players, quiet players.

I coached U18AA last year and I liked all my players, but some based on skill, injury, talent, effort, attitude, received different levels of opportunity throughout the year. You just have to try your best at all times and the rest takes care of itself.

End of the day he's going to try out for club AA again. That was my kid's call.

He has a bunch of buddies from hockey, some of whom he has played with for years. For the most part I don't think any of them are making AA (and I only give my kid 50/50 odds). But absolutely if the worst thing that happens to him is he doesn't make AA and gets to play with all his buddies for another year that's hardly a bad thing.

But even though I agreed with you when you said I was overthinking things... I don't know that I am. Or at least not unusually so. I've participated in, or overheard, lots of conversations with hockey parents wondering about the same things.

 

[iamjdg]

End of the day he's going to try out for club AA again. That was my kid's call.

He has a bunch of buddies from hockey, some of whom he has played with for years. For the most part I don't think any of them are making AA (and I only give my kid 50/50 odds). But absolutely if the worst thing that happens to him is he doesn't make AA and gets to play with all his buddies for another year that's hardly a bad thing.

But even though I agreed with you when you said I was overthinking things... I don't know that I am. Or at least not unusually so. I've participated in, or overheard, lots of conversations with hockey parents wondering about the same things.

Youth hockey has become an arms race between parents trying to to ensure their kid has every possible advantage over other kids. And I am guilty of participating. I remember when my oldest son was the last player to make an atom A2 team his first year in atom. I was in awe of the skills of all his teammates. 1/3 into the season I discovered they were all doing extra development outside of rep practice. That’s when it stated for us. Power skating, spring hockey, etc. And you could really tell the difference at rep tryouts between the kids who did extra development and those that did not and it was quite difficult to crack the top team without doing it. I remember a blog comment about hockey in BC once that really stuck with me. That if we only allowed the BC hockey zone/elite program to exist (rep of rep) then all the best players would be playing each other for a lot less money and rep minor hockey would be very competitive even through juvenile. But it’s human nature to always try to one up each other and not like to be controlled and that’s why we have CSSHL, HSL, JPHL, HPL in BC for younger kids, etc. The smartest and strongest willed parents refuse to participate, I wish I was one of them.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Youth hockey has become an arms race between parents trying to to ensure their kid has every possible advantage over other kids. And I am guilty of participating. I remember when my oldest son was the last player to make an atom A2 team his first year in atom. I was in awe of the skills of all his teammates. 1/3 into the season I discovered they were all doing extra development outside of rep practice. That’s when it stated for us. Power skating, spring hockey, etc. And you could really tell the difference at rep tryouts between the kids who did extra development and those that did not and it was quite difficult to crack the top team without doing it. I remember a blog comment about hockey in BC once that really stuck with me. That if we only allowed the BC hockey zone/elite program to exist (rep of rep) then all the best players would be playing each other for a lot less money and rep minor hockey would be very competitive even through juvenile. But it’s human nature to always try to one up each other and not like to be controlled and that’s why we have CSSHL, HSL, JPHL, HPL in BC for younger kids, etc. The smartest and strongest willed parents refuse to participate, I wish I was one of them.

Hey I get it man.

We just finished up spring hockey. My kid has been getting up extra early for a once per week 6:45am extra practice all winter and now spring. Throw in once per week dryland. All over and above what his team has been doing. And then August has become "hockey camp month".

The thing is - I'm not forcing him. The day he says he wants to quit, or do less, he can (and my youngest has quit hockey). And the extras DO help him develop. He's gotten very good at hockey.

So we do draw the line at points. There are things for hockey we won't do. Maybe we should draw the line somewhere else. I don't know. Just trying to figure it out as we go.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

End of the day he's going to try out for club AA again. That was my kid's call.

He has a bunch of buddies from hockey, some of whom he has played with for years. For the most part I don't think any of them are making AA (and I only give my kid 50/50 odds). But absolutely if the worst thing that happens to him is he doesn't make AA and gets to play with all his buddies for another year that's hardly a bad thing.

But even though I agreed with you when you said I was overthinking things... I don't know that I am. Or at least not unusually so. I've participated in, or overheard, lots of conversations with hockey parents wondering about the same things.

They were overthinking it too.

But of course you don't really know it until you've been through it, by which time... well, it's too late. Although with an older kid you can at least not overthink it again with the younger ones. Hopefully.

 

[krown]

Can anyone tell me about the PHL in Alberta? My son will be moving up to U15 next season, and looking at different options for him. One of them is the BCPHL which is affiliated with the PHL in Alberta. I'm wondering how viable this league is.