Men's League Last Night

[shakes the clown]

Hockey, the beautiful game

you a Caps fan? My old high school defense partner was Todd Reirden about 1000 years ago.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

you a Caps fan? My old high school defense partner was Todd Reirden about 1000 years ago.

Sure am! That’s wild. Todd had a mixed reputation in DC… he was really important in helping them win the Cup but he was put in a tough spot replacing Trotz right after they won the Cup due to the contract dispute and then having to deal with the Covid bubble stuff. Hope he gets another chance somewhere.

 

[DaveG]

He wouldn't make it that obvious. He would wait till he was skating the puck and if the ref was anywhere in front of him he would fire it at him and pretend he was trying to dump and chase or clear the zone if it was in our end.

Your second story reminds me of when my brother was playing in college for Oswego State in New York, they played a exhibition game vs a Canadian team. End of the game my brother is skating by their bench and someone reaches out and punches him from the bench. No call, but coincidently enough 3 seconds later the puck goes right to my brother who is now at center ice. Buzzer is about to blow and he turns to the other team's bench and just blasts a slapper right into their bench. Both benches empty and a massive team on team brawl broke out with half the Canandians trying to get at my brother. Gotta love the 90s when you could still do stuff like that lol.

shit, I probably saw him a few times at Elmira College back in the day, they used to be one of the usual suspects for OOC games.

 

[shakes the clown]

shit, I probably saw him a few times at Elmira College back in the day, they used to be one of the usual suspects for OOC games.

awesome.

here's his hockey db card back in the per-internet days when you were lucky if your stats were recorded
Scott Orzoff Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

played for Oswego 93-97. I think at one point he was among the leaders in all time games played.

I went and visited a couple times. Pretty awesome seeing a game in the old barn packed to the gills. They loved their Suny hockey up there.

 

[tarheelhockey]

To our ref friends:

Yes, it sounds silly when guys bitch about time running off the clock. But end of game scenarios DO matter. Obviously blow off guys who are complaining with 10 minutes left or whatever, but in the final minute of a 1-goal game you should have your eye on the clock every time you blow the whistle. You wouldn't allow a goal a second after the buzzer, so that second should not be allowed to run off the clock for no reason.

I'm not just speaking as a player, but as a former scorekeeper*. You better believe they can AND DO screw teams over with this stuff, sometimes deliberately. A second here and a second there with each whistle, and you're changing the end of game scenario by several seconds, which changes the outcome of a last-second rush or goalmouth scramble.

* As an NCAA basketball clock operator I knew precisely how much home cooking I could do with the shot clock and not get caught. Home team always got one more second than the away team. Nobody really stops to think whether the first second is full second -- whether it ticks down 1 second after the ball is touched -- or whether it ticks down instantly when the ball is touched. Guess which one gets applied to the home team, and nobody ever even notices. How many shots in a given season just barely beat the buzzer? How many game winners?

 

[Slats432]

To our ref friends:

Yes, it sounds silly when guys bitch about time running off the clock. But end of game scenarios DO matter. Obviously blow off guys who are complaining with 10 minutes left or whatever, but in the final minute of a 1-goal game you should have your eye on the clock every time you blow the whistle. You wouldn't allow a goal a second after the buzzer, so that second should not be allowed to run off the clock for no reason.

I'm not just speaking as a player, but as a former scorekeeper*. You better believe they can AND DO screw teams over with this stuff, sometimes deliberately. A second here and a second there with each whistle, and you're changing the end of game scenario by several seconds, which changes the outcome of a last-second rush or goalmouth scramble.

* As an NCAA basketball clock operator I knew precisely how much home cooking I could do with the shot clock and not get caught. Home team always got one more second than the away team. Nobody really stops to think whether the first second is full second -- whether it ticks down 1 second after the ball is touched -- or whether it ticks down instantly when the ball is touched. Guess which one gets applied to the home team, and nobody ever even notices. How many shots in a given season just barely beat the buzzer? How many game winners?

As an aside, I knew a timekeeper that could shave a minute off a clock during play. I was shocked when someone told me he could. (I would have asked him to not do it, but didn't really work with him.)

When I ref, I watch the clock. In any close game, I will ask the time keeper to adjust when necessary. Some complaints are certainly legitimate, and some timekeepers are slow on the button.

 

[Yukon Joe]

To our ref friends:

Yes, it sounds silly when guys bitch about time running off the clock. But end of game scenarios DO matter. Obviously blow off guys who are complaining with 10 minutes left or whatever, but in the final minute of a 1-goal game you should have your eye on the clock every time you blow the whistle. You wouldn't allow a goal a second after the buzzer, so that second should not be allowed to run off the clock for no reason.

Can I make the opposite request to our ref friends?

I was playing a playoff game last weekend. Our team is getting trounced. Mid way through the third period tempers boil over. One of our players get ejected.

Our captain asks the refs to just let the clock run. Refs say no because its a playoff game. Our captain asks opposing team's captain if they're okay with letting the clock run - they say sure. Refs still say no, make us play out the game.

FFS - this might be "playoffs", but it's rec hockey. It wasn't a 1 goal game (I think it was 6-2, and the other team really pulled back in the third period). Both teams agreed. So why not let the clock run, instead of risk another incident between the teams?

 

[Slats432]

Can I make the opposite request to our ref friends?

I was playing a playoff game last weekend. Our team is getting trounced. Mid way through the third period tempers boil over. One of our players get ejected.

Our captain asks the refs to just let the clock run. Refs say no because its a playoff game. Our captain asks opposing team's captain if they're okay with letting the clock run - they say sure. Refs still say no, make us play out the game.

FFS - this might be "playoffs", but it's rec hockey. It wasn't a 1 goal game (I think it was 6-2, and the other team really pulled back in the third period). Both teams agreed. So why not let the clock run, instead of risk another incident between the teams?

In the CCRHL if both teams agree to run time, it is a go. It likely isn't a ref rule, it is probably a league rule, so don't try to convince the refs, it isn't their call. Like in the CCRHL, the league rule is we don't skip floods, even if you are playing the last game of the night at 10:30 at Grand Trunk, and it is a blowout and the flood is after 2.

 

[Slats432]

The other night, I was scheduled to ref a triple. On the way to the rink, was notified that game 3 was a forfeit by one of the teams. Get to the rink and ref the first game. No problems.

So we are in between games one and two and a few of one of the teams show up. The goalie indicates they are short guys. League policy is you can't start a game without 6 skaters and a goalie. They have 4 skaters and a goalie.

They have four guys that are supposed to show up but are late. The reason? Caught going 170 km/hr in a 100 km/hr zone on a freeway in Edmonton. Game ended up being a forfeit as well.

 

[Yukon Joe]

The other night, I was scheduled to ref a triple. On the way to the rink, was notified that game 3 was a forfeit by one of the teams. Get to the rink and ref the first game. No problems.

So we are in between games one and two and a few of one of the teams show up. The goalie indicates they are short guys. League policy is you can't start a game without 6 skaters and a goalie. They have 4 skaters and a goalie.

They have four guys that are supposed to show up but are late. The reason? Caught going 170 km/hr in a 100 km/hr zone on a freeway in Edmonton. Game ended up being a forfeit as well.

Lulz. Yeah guys I know you're rushing to make your hockey game, but 70+ over the limit probably means getting your car towed, if not criminal charges.


I gotta say that one of the things I really appreciate about my current team is our roster is both big enough, and our players dedicated enough, that we've never had to get a sub and never had less than 10 skaters.

 

[patnyrnyg]

As an aside, I knew a timekeeper that could shave a minute off a clock during play. I was shocked when someone told me he could. (I would have asked him to not do it, but didn't really work with him.)

When I ref, I watch the clock. In any close game, I will ask the time keeper to adjust when necessary. Some complaints are certainly legitimate, and some timekeepers are slow on the button.

I was a clock/scorekeeper for a small place with a basketball league. I could shave a minute off while clock was running. Would be "6:02, 6:01, 6:00, 4:59...." It was an old school scoreboard and two of the bulbs on the line that is part of the 6 but not part of the 5 were out. Owner never bothered to replace them. Would do it if I knew game would be a blowout as I knew the teams fairly well. Never once got caught had a complaint. Only 1 other person knew I was doing it.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Can I make the opposite request to our ref friends?

I was playing a playoff game last weekend. Our team is getting trounced. Mid way through the third period tempers boil over. One of our players get ejected.

Our captain asks the refs to just let the clock run. Refs say no because its a playoff game. Our captain asks opposing team's captain if they're okay with letting the clock run - they say sure. Refs still say no, make us play out the game.

FFS - this might be "playoffs", but it's rec hockey. It wasn't a 1 goal game (I think it was 6-2, and the other team really pulled back in the third period). Both teams agreed. So why not let the clock run, instead of risk another incident between the teams?

I used to ref football and umpire baseball. Most of the baseball I did the last 10-15 years was mens league. The league I did had a mercy rule during the regular season both midweek and sunday. But, not for play-off games on Sundays. Got to the point where I just made sure I was unavailable for the first 2 weeks of play-offs as every team made the play-offs. Final straw was when a game was 21-0 after 5 innings. 1st place vs Last place. Mercy was normally 15 after 5 and 12 after 6. Team that was ahead asked if the other team wanted to keep going and they said, "Yeah, there is no mercy today, might as well." Catcher of winning team said, "Ok, if you want to keep playing we will keep scoring." In their defense, they did start swinging at everything, but final score was 34-0. 9 inning game and it took a little over 4 hours.

With football we kept the clock on the field in probably 95% of the games I worked. I remember when I first started doing a mens flag league. Worked with a veteran who taught me how to run the clock and was a true magician. It was two 30-minute halves. Running time except after scores, but clock would start again once the ball was kicked for the kick-off. This was until 2 minute warning and then we would use HS timing. We usually had 4 or 5 games in a day. 1) He would run 25 minute halves, but as teams asked him the time remaining, he would tell them a few extra minutes. So, if his clock said 20, he would say 23. And, the amount he would "add" to his clock would shrink as we went along. His logic was if he ran a 25, and he said 20, they may get suspicous if they only played 5 minutes, but were already 10 minutes gone, but they would not tell the difference between playing 5 and having 7 minutes gone. 2) Teams had 3 to's per half, but if you didnt use the first before the two minute warning you lost it. That was the league rule, not his. But, if they did call timeout he wouldn't stop clock. If they hadn't asked him the time for a while, he would look at clock and tell them a minute less to let it run. 3) then the two minute warning. First he would let it run to 1:45 before actually calling it. Now, they would constantly ask for the time. If the clock stopped on consecutive plays, he knew just how many seconds to add back to what he told them to get away with it. So if they ran a play and it was an incomplete pass that took 7 seconds, he would say "1:51". Second, if we had multiple snaps in a row where the clock did not stop, he would let even more time run off before he actually stopped it. 4) Play clock was 30 seconds after we blew the ready for play whistle. we would yell "10 seconds" when the play clock got down there. This guy would yell 10 seconds for EVERY play. Even if they hadn't used 20 seconds at that point. Sometimes when they broke the huddle, sometimes when they got to the line, sometimes when the QB started his cadence. Used to tell me that made it seem like he was actually enforcing the 30 second clock and it would often make them use more than 1 timeout before the 2 minute warning. Timeouts that werent really timeouts as he didnt stop the clock. Yes, some would say it wasnt right, but the commish would even tell us to do it. Games were scheduled 90 minutes apart and if you kept it completely legit, the game would easily take An hour 45.

When I did HS or youth we would start off keeping it legit and then let the game dictate whether to shave. If it was close, we kept it close to legit. If a blow-out, the losing coach would usually ask us to start running it. When I first started, a veteran gave me a strategy if I was going to run in on my own or at the direction of the ref (white hat). When the asked the time, only give a "round amount" which was X:00, X:45, X:30, X:15, for the 4-minute warning in each half and ONE other time during the game. So, if the clock was supposed to stop but I was going to let it go a little longer, don't stop it AT 5:00, but stop at either 5:02 or 4:54. Said it made it sound more like a legit clock than if every time they asked me the time I said, "7:30..... 6:00, 2:45..." and so forth.

 

[PK Cronin]

I used to ref football and umpire baseball. Most of the baseball I did the last 10-15 years was mens league. The league I did had a mercy rule during the regular season both midweek and sunday. But, not for play-off games on Sundays. Got to the point where I just made sure I was unavailable for the first 2 weeks of play-offs as every team made the play-offs. Final straw was when a game was 21-0 after 5 innings. 1st place vs Last place. Mercy was normally 15 after 5 and 12 after 6. Team that was ahead asked if the other team wanted to keep going and they said, "Yeah, there is no mercy today, might as well." Catcher of winning team said, "Ok, if you want to keep playing we will keep scoring." In their defense, they did start swinging at everything, but final score was 34-0. 9 inning game and it took a little over 4 hours.

With football we kept the clock on the field in probably 95% of the games I worked. I remember when I first started doing a mens flag league. Worked with a veteran who taught me how to run the clock and was a true magician. It was two 30-minute halves. Running time except after scores, but clock would start again once the ball was kicked for the kick-off. This was until 2 minute warning and then we would use HS timing. We usually had 4 or 5 games in a day. 1) He would run 25 minute halves, but as teams asked him the time remaining, he would tell them a few extra minutes. So, if his clock said 20, he would say 23. And, the amount he would "add" to his clock would shrink as we went along. His logic was if he ran a 25, and he said 20, they may get suspicous if they only played 5 minutes, but were already 10 minutes gone, but they would not tell the difference between playing 5 and having 7 minutes gone. 2) Teams had 3 to's per half, but if you didnt use the first before the two minute warning you lost it. That was the league rule, not his. But, if they did call timeout he wouldn't stop clock. If they hadn't asked him the time for a while, he would look at clock and tell them a minute less to let it run. 3) then the two minute warning. First he would let it run to 1:45 before actually calling it. Now, they would constantly ask for the time. If the clock stopped on consecutive plays, he knew just how many seconds to add back to what he told them to get away with it. So if they ran a play and it was an incomplete pass that took 7 seconds, he would say "1:51". Second, if we had multiple snaps in a row where the clock did not stop, he would let even more time run off before he actually stopped it. 4) Play clock was 30 seconds after we blew the ready for play whistle. we would yell "10 seconds" when the play clock got down there. This guy would yell 10 seconds for EVERY play. Even if they hadn't used 20 seconds at that point. Sometimes when they broke the huddle, sometimes when they got to the line, sometimes when the QB started his cadence. Used to tell me that made it seem like he was actually enforcing the 30 second clock and it would often make them use more than 1 timeout before the 2 minute warning. Timeouts that werent really timeouts as he didnt stop the clock. Yes, some would say it wasnt right, but the commish would even tell us to do it. Games were scheduled 90 minutes apart and if you kept it completely legit, the game would easily take An hour 45.

When I did HS or youth we would start off keeping it legit and then let the game dictate whether to shave. If it was close, we kept it close to legit. If a blow-out, the losing coach would usually ask us to start running it. When I first started, a veteran gave me a strategy if I was going to run in on my own or at the direction of the ref (white hat). When the asked the time, only give a "round amount" which was X:00, X:45, X:30, X:15, for the 4-minute warning in each half and ONE other time during the game. So, if the clock was supposed to stop but I was going to let it go a little longer, don't stop it AT 5:00, but stop at either 5:02 or 4:54. Said it made it sound more like a legit clock than if every time they asked me the time I said, "7:30..... 6:00, 2:45..." and so forth.

If people are paying for leagues and the league starts shaving time off that's incredibly scummy. It isn't the fault of the players that the league hasn't figured out how to schedule or run things on time.

I travel a really long distance to play hockey with a team of friends (it's also the closest place to me). In fact, I'm in the car longer than the game takes. If I was paying money to play once or twice a week and the league started to shave time off of games I'd be pissed. Even in blowouts, it's time I paid for and deserve to use it.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If people are paying for leagues and the league starts shaving time off that's incredibly scummy. It isn't the fault of the players that the league hasn't figured out how to schedule or run things on time.

I travel a really long distance to play hockey with a team of friends (it's also the closest place to me). In fact, I'm in the car longer than the game takes. If I was paying money to play once or twice a week and the league started to shave time off of games I'd be pissed. Even in blowouts, it's time I paid for and deserve to use it.

I agree with this, giving the players less ice time than they pay for is not OK. Even in a blowout, for most people on the ice this is their only opportunity to skate for the week.

None of us would be cool with that if we were on the receiving end.

 

[Golden_Jet]

If people are paying for leagues and the league starts shaving time off that's incredibly scummy. It isn't the fault of the players that the league hasn't figured out how to schedule or run things on time.

I travel a really long distance to play hockey with a team of friends (it's also the closest place to me). In fact, I'm in the car longer than the game takes. If I was paying money to play once or twice a week and the league started to shave time off of games I'd be pissed. Even in blowouts, it's time I paid for and deserve to use it.

Agree, paid for the ice, paid for the refs as well.

 

[patnyrnyg]

If people are paying for leagues and the league starts shaving time off that's incredibly scummy. It isn't the fault of the players that the league hasn't figured out how to schedule or run things on time.

I travel a really long distance to play hockey with a team of friends (it's also the closest place to me). In fact, I'm in the car longer than the game takes. If I was paying money to play once or twice a week and the league started to shave time off of games I'd be pissed. Even in blowouts, it's time I paid for and deserve to use it.

Looking back on it now, it definitely was scummy. If you ever saw the flag football league to which I was referring, you would understand. It was blood money for the refs.

 

[Slats432]

I agree with this, giving the players less ice time than they pay for is not OK. Even in a blowout, for most people on the ice this is their only opportunity to skate for the week.

None of us would be cool with that if we were on the receiving end.

Exactly. Every ref knows (And the players too) which refs are waving icings and mailing it in on a late game. If you are there to do a job, do the job.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Exactly. Every ref knows (And the players too) which refs are waving icings and mailing it in on a late game. If you are there to do a job, do the job.

Hell, even do a shitty job if needed. Experienced players can read and react to that. But don’t cut the game short, that’s outright cheating the players.

 

[JianYang]

I just turned 40 and my body feels broken on the left side from my shoulder, elbow, hip, knee, and achilees.

Props to you at 52.

 

[shakes the clown]

Can I make the opposite request to our ref friends?

I was playing a playoff game last weekend. Our team is getting trounced. Mid way through the third period tempers boil over. One of our players get ejected.

Our captain asks the refs to just let the clock run. Refs say no because its a playoff game. Our captain asks opposing team's captain if they're okay with letting the clock run - they say sure. Refs still say no, make us play out the game.

FFS - this might be "playoffs", but it's rec hockey. It wasn't a 1 goal game (I think it was 6-2, and the other team really pulled back in the third period). Both teams agreed. So why not let the clock run, instead of risk another incident between the teams?

I absolutely despised running time when I played. I was out there first and foremost for a cardio workout and to lose/maintain my weight. I don't care if I'm winning or losing by 20, I want the full amount of time available so I can get as many strides in as possible.

Also you pay a lot to be in these leagues and most of that cost is for ice time. It costs a lot, why voluntarily give away some of that ice time??

 

[shakes the clown]

League policy is you can't start a game without 6 skaters and a goalie.

.

That's a terrible policy. I can recall at least a few times I've played entire games with 5 skaters and a goalie. Don't think I ever won any of them, but I remember one was a crazy 12-11 game we lost where I had 11 goals and never once ventured inside my own red line.

We had a great strategy for those games. Divide the rink up into segments and just stay in your segment to avoid getting too gassed. D would stay back and play D. I would stay up by teh far blue line cherry picking and waiting for outlet passes. Worked like a charm till we inevitiably ran out of gas late.

But, it sure beats forfeiting.

We have played games without a goalie as well and just add an extra skater. Never won any of those, but at least I got to burn 1000 calories which is the whole point.

 

[Slats432]

That's a terrible policy. I can recall at least a few times I've played entire games with 5 skaters and a goalie. Don't think I ever won any of them, but I remember one was a crazy 12-11 game we lost where I had 11 goals and never once ventured inside my own red line.

We had a great strategy for those games. Divide the rink up into segments and just stay in your segment to avoid getting too gassed. D would stay back and play D. I would stay up by teh far blue line cherry picking and waiting for outlet passes. Worked like a charm till we inevitiably ran out of gas late.

But, it sure beats forfeiting.

We have played games without a goalie as well and just add an extra skater. Never won any of those, but at least I got to burn 1000 calories which is the whole point.

The league is very organized. You oblige people to get players that are committed. Two refs guaranteed for each slot, with timekeeper. Stats for all games, updated in real time.

If you don't want to be in a league that doesn't have commitment, then there is lots of shinny and random ice slots to play in. In the near 3000 games I have reffed, this has happened no more than a dozen times.

 

[shakes the clown]

The league is very organized. You oblige people to get players that are committed. Two refs guaranteed for each slot, with timekeeper. Stats for all games, updated in real time.

If you don't want to be in a league that doesn't have commitment, then there is lots of shinny and random ice slots to play in. In the near 3000 games I have reffed, this has happened no more than a dozen times.

why can't you play with 6 skaters????? What's the policy reason behind that nonsense?

I've played with 6 skaters more times than I can count and if it was the right 6 we won more often than not.

 

[Slats432]

why can't you play with 6 skaters????? What's the policy reason behind that nonsense?

I've played with 6 skaters more times than I can count and if it was the right 6 we won more often than not.

Yep, you can play with 6 skaters and a goalie. And if a league decided to allow 5 and a goalie, at the first coincidental penalty the team wouldn't be able to ice a normal roster. You play in whatever league you enjoy. If you don't want to play in a league that has structure, and it isn't for you, then cool. The league has a 33 page rule book and is designed to allow for people to enjoy competing in hockey with people of similar calibre.

There is a reason it is the largest league in Edmonton with over 200 teams in the winter and over 100 teams in the summer. People seem to like the structure. (And at $12K per team in the winter x 200, I think the players have spoken that the league is pretty good)

 

[shakes the clown]

Yep, you can play with 6 skaters and a goalie. And if a league decided to allow 5 and a goalie, at the first coincidental penalty the team wouldn't be able to ice a normal roster. You play in whatever league you enjoy. If you don't want to play in a league that has structure, and it isn't for you, then cool. The league has a 33 page rule book and is designed to allow for people to enjoy competing in hockey with people of similar calibre.

There is a reason it is the largest league in Edmonton with over 200 teams in the winter and over 100 teams in the summer. People seem to like the structure. (And at $12K per team in the winter x 200, I think the players have spoken that the league is pretty good)

my bad, I read that as you couldn't play with 6 skaters.

Sounds like a great league. Structure is great, not always possible here in Chicago. And I don't know about Edmonton, but here 98% of the men's league games start after 9:00. Lots of them start after 11:00. Not always easy getting enough guys to show up for some of those.


One thing I noticed is that the better the player, the less he wants to be part of a league with structure. I played in a very structured league with like 6 or 7 divisions all based on talent. Each team had exactly 10 players and you had to confirm online in advance that you would attend. If you couldn't attend the league would go into the sub system (other players from the league) and bring guys from there so the team had 10 skaters.

It was such a perfect system. You were always guaranteed to have no less and no more than 10 skaters which is the perfect number for men's league. Game times weren't even that bad. Despite all that, the level of play in the highest division wasn't even C level.

Despite the terrible level of play I enjoyed the league solely for the benefit of being guaranteed no more than 5 on the bench. And I loved the sub system. i would pick up extra games every week.


most of our leagues here are th opposite with no structure. Get to the playoffs and you might see some ringers you haven't seen all season. that type of stuff.