MMA General Discussion and Fight Announcements 11

[m9]

That really sucks.

That injury is a bad one too, Jones will be out awhile.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Not going to lie... if you take the history away from Jones and Stipe I kinda would rather watch Pavlovich/Aspinall.

 

[I am not exposed]

Not going to lie... if you take the history away from Jones and Stipe I kinda would rather watch Pavlovich/Aspinall.

Yeah I'm actually happy. Far more interested in the interim heavyweight title fight. Pavlovich should have been fighting Jones to begin with.

Stipe is done, and Jones would have made really quick work with him.

This is a blessing in disguise for Stipe imo.

 

[m9]

Damn. That sucks.

At least Pav-Aspinall is a banger of a fight with 2 deserving guys. It's just not as big of a name or legacy fight.

What does this mean for Stipe? Did he just not want Pav or Apsinall on short notice? Will they have the winner defend the interim belt against Stipe? Would they have Jon come back and not unify the belts right away? Is Stipe going to sit out another year to maybe get a title shot then?

Yeah, I would guess Miocic just didn't want the Pavlovich matchup. I don't think the winner defends against him either, because why wouldn't Miocic just take that fight now if he's interested in that?

It does kind of annoy me that Miocic isn't still fighting here, though. Would have loved to see him v Pav and then do Aspinall v Gane or someone in a #1 contender fight and then have the winners fight next year. Then Jones potentially back next year. But the future for both Jones and Miocic is really interesting coming out of this. That's a bad injury for Jones if reports are true and a long recovery. Also is a killer for strength training and we know Jones has taken forever bulking up to HW. I think there's a chance we've seen the last of Jon Jones. And honestly, same for Miocic. If he's not willing to fight the young guys I don't know what you do with him.

Just as an aside, the UFC did a really weak job loading up UFC295. They have some loaded cards in December and UFC295 needed one more big fight. Maybe losing Miocic/Jones is enough for them to do something and add another fight onto the main card.

 

[I am not exposed]

Yeah, I would guess Miocic just didn't want the Pavlovich matchup. I don't think the winner defends against him either, because why wouldn't Miocic just take that fight now if he's interested in that?

It does kind of annoy me that Miocic isn't still fighting here, though. Would have loved to see him v Pav and then do Aspinall v Gane or someone in a #1 contender fight and then have the winners fight next year. Then Jones potentially back next year. But the future for both Jones and Miocic is really interesting coming out of this. That's a bad injury for Jones if reports are true and a long recovery. Also is a killer for strength training and we know Jones has taken forever bulking up to HW. I think there's a chance we've seen the last of Jon Jones. And honestly, same for Miocic. If he's not willing to fight the young guys I don't know what you do with him.

Just as an aside, the UFC did a really weak job loading up UFC295. They have some loaded cards in December and UFC295 needed one more big fight. Maybe losing Miocic/Jones is enough for them to do something and add another fight onto the main card.

He should fight Stefan Struve and avenge his loss.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Just as an aside, the UFC did a really weak job loading up UFC295. They have some loaded cards in December and UFC295 needed one more big fight. Maybe losing Miocic/Jones is enough for them to do something and add another fight onto the main card.

Agreed 100000%... I've been waiting for them to add that one big name non title fight to the main card and it just never came. Frevola vs St Denis is a fun fight and frevola is local ok that makes sense. I guess you can justify Dern vs Andrade but does anyone really think Diego Lopes vs sabatini is a legitimate main card ppv fight?

 

[m9]

Agreed 100000%... I've been waiting for them to add that one big name non title fight to the main card and it just never came. Frevola vs St Denis is a fun fight and frevola is local ok that makes sense. I guess you can justify Dern vs Andrade but does anyone really think Diego Lopes vs sabatini is a legitimate main card ppv fight?

They need a big 3rd fight and Lopes/Sabatini is an okay (but not even great) prelim headliner.

Last year at MSG the 3rd fight was Poirier/Chandler.

The prelims?

Moicano/Riddell
Spann/Reyes
Blanchfield/McCann

They have tons of big fights lined up for December - there's no excuse here. If it's a tax issue, then just pony up some extra money.

 

[pistolpete11]

Yeah, I would guess Miocic just didn't want the Pavlovich matchup. I don't think the winner defends against him either, because why wouldn't Miocic just take that fight now if he's interested in that?

It does kind of annoy me that Miocic isn't still fighting here, though. Would have loved to see him v Pav and then do Aspinall v Gane or someone in a #1 contender fight and then have the winners fight next year. Then Jones potentially back next year. But the future for both Jones and Miocic is really interesting coming out of this. That's a bad injury for Jones if reports are true and a long recovery. Also is a killer for strength training and we know Jones has taken forever bulking up to HW. I think there's a chance we've seen the last of Jon Jones. And honestly, same for Miocic. If he's not willing to fight the young guys I don't know what you do with him.

Just as an aside, the UFC did a really weak job loading up UFC295. They have some loaded cards in December and UFC295 needed one more big fight. Maybe losing Miocic/Jones is enough for them to do something and add another fight onto the main card.

Of course Stipe would rather fight Jones for obvious reasons, but I think fighting for the belt is the bigger sticking point for him. I wouldn't be surprised if he was willing to fight Pav or Apsinall if it's for the belt. But doing it on 2 weeks notice is a different story. Particularly if he was anticipating Jones to wrestle a lot, switching to a predominant striker like Pav or Aspinall is a big change.

Dana said 8 months in that clip for Jones, but maybe if USADA going away, he can come back a little faster . Who knows, though? There was a chance UFC 295 was the last we were going to see Jones and/or Stipe. For them to go out like this would be a real shame.

I think UFC 295 was a pretty good card. I mean, 2 very high profile title fights, Dern-Andrade are 2 pretty popular WMMA fighters and a good matchup IMO, and Frevola-BSD is guaranteed action. It's true Poirier-Chandler was the third fight last year for MSG, but I think that was more to make up for Weili-Esparza being one of the title fights. Prelims definitely aren't as good this year, though.

 

[m9]

Of course Stipe would rather fight Jones for obvious reasons, but I think fighting for the belt is the bigger sticking point for him. I wouldn't be surprised if he was willing to fight Pav or Apsinall if it's for the belt. But doing it on 2 weeks notice is a different story. Particularly if he was anticipating Jones to wrestle a lot, switching to a predominant striker like Pav or Aspinall is a big change.

True, the real belt probably played a big factor as well.

Dana said 8 months in that clip for Jones, but maybe if USADA going away, he can come back a little faster . Who knows, though? There was a chance UFC 295 was the last we were going to see Jones and/or Stipe. For them to go out like this would be a real shame.

Dana just kind of throws stuff out there in terms of injuries so who knows on the length. Torn pec is more common in the NFL and if it's "fully torn off the bone" then it will be a long one. But it could be something like we saw with TJ Watt a couple of years ago where it's torn but it's more like a 2-3 month thing.

That's when the conspiracy angle would come out for me - we need a main event for UFC300 and we're using up the only one we have in November? Miocic v Jones for UFC300 would make some sense..

*Note not conspiracy on the actual injury, more just why Miocic isn't involved

I think UFC 295 was a pretty good card. I mean, 2 very high profile title fights, Dern-Andrade are 2 pretty popular WMMA fighters and a good matchup IMO, and Frevola-BSD is guaranteed action. It's true Poirier-Chandler was the third fight last year for MSG, but I think that was more to make up for Weili-Esparza being one of the title fights. Prelims definitely aren't as good this year, though.

Great top two fights, and the other two main card fights are acceptable. Just needs a 3rd fight. Obviously Poirier/Chandler is an insanely high bar and I wouldn't expect that as the 3rd fight usually.. but you can throw something better in there. There are tons of fights on those deep December cards that would have been great fits.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I saw Dana said last night they didn't offer Stipe the interim fight. I could see it cause they don't want to risk him losing to one of these guys and then the eventual jones/Stipe fight is over. They make this the interim fight and then do Stipe/jones when both healthy and it's the best of both worlds.

 

[m9]

I saw Dana said last night they didn't offer Stipe the interim fight. I could see it cause they don't want to risk him losing to one of these guys and then the eventual jones/Stipe fight is over. They make this the interim fight and then do Stipe/jones when both healthy and it's the best of both worlds.

That makes sense to me.. though it could also be Dana not wanting to make Miocic look bad knowing he's going to need him on board next year.

Aspinall had some interesting comments that I saw re-posted. Basically said that Miocic only wanted to fight Jones and that the UFC thought both Jones/Miocic were going to retire after the fight so they were saving Pavlovich/Aspinall as the new title fight for next year. Obviously not sure how true any of it is.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Sucks about jones hope he heals up and actually looks like a fit heavyweight if/whenever he fights next.

I'll still watch 295 and hopefully Pavlovich hammers aspinall out of the ring.

 

[pistolpete11]

It makes sense that they don't want to risk Stipe losing, but how does it makes sense to have Jones-Stipe for the undisputed HW Championship when there is a different Interim HW Champion?

I don't mind interim titles, but I'm struggling to see how this one plays out.

 

[m9]

It makes sense that they don't want to risk Stipe losing, but how does it makes sense to have Jones-Stipe for the undisputed HW Championship when there is a different Interim HW Champion?

I don't mind interim titles, but I'm struggling to see how this one plays out.

My guess:
-Interim title fight at ufc295
-winner defends interim title sometime early 2024
-miocic/jones happens mid/late 2024
-winner retires, interim belt holder becomes real champ

 

[I am not exposed]

My guess:
-Interim title fight at ufc295
-winner defends interim title sometime early 2024
-miocic/jones happens mid/late 2024
-winner retires, interim belt holder becomes real champ

Just seems bizarre if you win the interim title you don't get the actual title shot.

 

[m9]

Just seems bizarre if you win the interim title you don't get the actual title shot.

The closest example I would consider is what happened with Renan Barao. Won an interim title, then defended it twice and after the second defense it was changed to the actual title. Not exactly the same scenario but closest there has probably been.

I think it also gives them some options. If they need to strip Jones that's easy enough, if they need to move on from Miocic that's easy enough as well. Fluid situation.. but ya, the above is my guess in terms of a plausible scenario.

 

[The Devil In I]

Just seems bizarre if you win the interim title you don't get the actual title shot.

Yea doesn't happen often. It's actually how Whittaker became champ. Won the interim, they did Bisping vs GSP in the money fight and then GSP retired after winning, and the interim became champ.

 

[pistolpete11]

My guess:
-Interim title fight at ufc295
-winner defends interim title sometime early 2024
-miocic/jones happens mid/late 2024
-winner retires, interim belt holder becomes real champ

I don't have a problem with defending the interim belt and I don't have a problem with the interim champ being promoted to the full champ if the champ retires or is out too long.

But it doesn't make sense to have 2 belts being defended within like ~6 months of each other. If they're both healthy enough to defend their belt, they should be fighting each other.

Yea doesn't happen often. It's actually how Whittaker became champ. Won the interim, they did Bisping vs GSP in the money fight and then GSP retired after winning, and the interim became champ.

Whittaker got hurt in the fight against Romero where he won the interim belt. f***ed up his knee.

 

[16Skippy]

I saw Dana said last night they didn't offer Stipe the interim fight. I could see it cause they don't want to risk him losing to one of these guys and then the eventual jones/Stipe fight is over. They make this the interim fight and then do Stipe/jones when both healthy and it's the best of both worlds.

This is sort of what Slack thinks too. Jones-Miocic is the biggest money fight out of the 4 dudes, and Miocic will probably get wrecked by either Aspinall/Pav at this point so can't make the Jones fight after. And they really want to market it as the HW GOAT vs p4p GOAT

 

[End of Line]

If anything I expect to see a huge resell market to hit the MSG card. Sucks because I love my Ohio brethren Stipe.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Stipe at 41 years old is someone where all the stars are going to need to align for him to fight again meaning he's going to need both the belt on the line and a full camp with the knowledge of who he's fighting against the whole time. If you take either one of those things away he's just going to pass everytime. The guy is basically the opposite of Volkanovski right now. He has a legitimate whole other career. He's not sitting around waiting for Dana's name to pop up in his phone. If everything is perfect he'll do it, if it's not then he's perfectly fine walking away and never being heard from again.

 

[pistolpete11]

Stipe at 41 years old is someone where all the stars are going to need to align for him to fight again meaning he's going to need both the belt on the line and a full camp with the knowledge of who he's fighting against the whole time. If you take either one of those things away he's just going to pass everytime. The guy is basically the opposite of Volkanovski right now. He has a legitimate whole other career. He's not sitting around waiting for Dana's name to pop up in his phone. If everything is perfect he'll do it, if it's not then he's perfectly fine walking away and never being heard from again.

I wonder if Stipe would be willing to fight Pav or Apsinall with a full camp for the interim belt. Dana saying it would be disrespectful to offer Stipe an interim title fight suggests to me a) they know the answer is no and/or b) they know that Jones is only willing to come back for Stipe and they don't want to risk Stipe losing. I think b is part of it, not sure about a, but probably.

As a big Stipe fan and someone who likes a little structure, that would be best case scenario. Have Stipe come back beat Pav/Aspinall to setup the unification fight with Jones. Eliminates all the talk about why Jones isn't fighting the interim champ AND all the talk about why Stipe is getting the title shot at 41 coming off a loss 3 years ago. Of course, at this point in their careers, Stipe beating Pav or Apsinall is a tall task, though.

 

[I am not exposed]

This is sort of what Slack thinks too. Jones-Miocic is the biggest money fight out of the 4 dudes, and Miocic will probably get wrecked by either Aspinall/Pav at this point so can't make the Jones fight after. And they really want to market it as the HW GOAT vs p4p GOAT

Which would have made sense a few years ago but I get what you're saying. I would favour everyone from Blaydes up to deal with Stipe. Stipe was great but I think his time has passed.

 

[pistolpete11]

Which would have made sense a few years ago but I get what you're saying. I would favour everyone from Blaydes up to deal with Stipe. Stipe was great but I think his time has passed.

I'd pick Pav and Aspinall over Stipe.

Blaydes, I'm not so sure. If Blaydes fights like he thinks he's a kickboxer like he's done the last couple of times out, I take even a 41 year old Stipe to beat him. If he wrestled, maybe, might depend on if it was a 3 or 5 round fight. Still got questions about Blaydes cardio.

I'd straight up pick Stipe to beat Gane.

 

[pistolpete11]

Jones in a video said it will be him and Stipe at a later date.

Of course it's not binding or anything, but the UFC is most likely to just say "f*** it, we can do what we want."