GDT: 2020 NHL Entry Draft - it took 84 years, but it's finally over

[violaswallet]

Our drafts were junk from 2010-2017. I don’t give Tallon the benefit of the doubt for those 2 years.

How do you think through Tallon hitting big on Barky and Huby when they weren’t the obvious guys? I struggle with it: we got three stars from our four top 3 picks which is pretty okay, but he was atrocious elsewhere

 

[FrolikFan67]

How do you think through Tallon hitting big on Barky and Huby when they weren’t the obvious guys? I struggle with it: we got three stars from our four top 3 picks which is pretty okay, but he was atrocious elsewhere

I thought Huberdeau was pretty much the consensus 3rd pick? Barkov at 2 was definitely a shock at the time and it paid off. Granted, Jones was the expected pick, so it would’ve worked out either way. I know larsson was 4th and was a consideration but I thought he was always more likely to go 4th

 

[vendetta]

Our drafts were junk from 2010-2017. I don’t give Tallon the benefit of the doubt for those 2 years.

Of
Course you wouldn’t. Won’t give credit when due but place all the blame otherwise. Classic bias

 

[violaswallet]

I thought Huberdeau was pretty much the consensus 3rd pick? Barkov at 2 was definitely a shock at the time and it paid off. Granted, Jones was the expected pick, so it would’ve worked out either way. I know larsson was 4th and was a consideration but I thought he was always more likely to go 4th

I wasn’t a Panthers fan back then (Winnipeg stole my team) but I remember Huberdeau rising quickly... but I never thought he was the consensus third... could be wrong though In early 2011 I thought Atlanta would get him with our pick

 

[letsgrowcactus]

Heineman says "a lot of fun... a dream come true" like he's speaking at a funeral... hope that's a "tired because Europe time-difference" effect or even "generally expressionless guy" effect and not "the Panthers, why, WHY???" effect. Still annoyed we lost Mascherin for nothing (although at this point he hasn't done anything for Dallas so not a huge loss...)

 

[Dread Clawz]

Heineman says "a lot of fun... a dream come true" like he's speaking at a funeral... hope that's a "tired because Europe time-difference" effect or even "generally expressionless guy" effect and not "the Panthers, why, WHY???" effect. Still annoyed we lost Mascherin for nothing (although at this point he hasn't done anything for Dallas so not a huge loss...)

I think Heineman is just a generally expressionless, serious guy.

Btw, check out that wrist shot on Smilanic. I told you guys he has a terrific wrister. that thing packs some heat.

 

[Dread Clawz]

How do you think through Tallon hitting big on Barky and Huby when they weren’t the obvious guys? I struggle with it: we got three stars from our four top 3 picks which is pretty okay, but he was atrocious elsewhere

That's not true, outside of the 1st:

Hyman
Donskoi
Petrovic(he turned to crap but had a few decent years with us)
Trocheck
Grimaldi
Brown
Weegar
Lammikko
Hawryluk
Stillman

From 2017 on, too early to judge.

That's not great, but it was respectable. Tallon was great at trades, decent at drafting, terrible with free agency. All in all average, but drafting is not what held us back.

 

[Pigge]

Heineman says "a lot of fun... a dream come true" like he's speaking at a funeral... hope that's a "tired because Europe time-difference" effect or even "generally expressionless guy" effect and not "the Panthers, why, WHY???" effect. Still annoyed we lost Mascherin for nothing (although at this point he hasn't done anything for Dallas so not a huge loss...)

Could be a little overwhelming for a smalltown kid to be interviewed by international media. He doesn't have a bunch of experience playing for the national team, so he is probably not at all used to that kind of attention. It does highlight the risk that he may have trouble adapting to life as a pro in America.

 

[pantherbot]

Heineman says "a lot of fun... a dream come true" like he's speaking at a funeral... hope that's a "tired because Europe time-difference" effect or even "generally expressionless guy" effect and not "the Panthers, why, WHY???" effect. Still annoyed we lost Mascherin for nothing (although at this point he hasn't done anything for Dallas so not a huge loss...)

lol probably some of it is the language, having to concentrate on saying the right words makes people look more expressionless.

Smilanic was funny, saying he wanted to learn more about our history...maybe it's better he didn't and just think of us as a clean slate!

Impressed with Uens in that short clip, he used a word with more than three syllables, "gratifying", which you don't see from many teenagers.

 

[pantherbot]

That's not true, outside of the 1st:

Hyman
Donskoi
Petrovic(he turned to crap but had a few decent years with us)
Trocheck
Grimaldi
Brown
Weegar
Lammikko
Hawryluk
Stillman

From 2017 on, too early to judge.

That's not great, but it was respectable. Tallon was great at trades, decent at drafting, terrible with free agency. All in all average, but drafting is not what held us back.

yep agreed, I've gone through the history in detail before. Our hit rate is about league average even if we don't keep all the players. A lot of the problems I think stem from development as well. But hey...some people just like to keep the Tallon bashing going. Nowadays it's popular to keep blaming the last guy for everything if you didn't like him.

 

[drktmplr12]

Could be a little overwhelming for a smalltown kid to be interviewed by international media. He doesn't have a bunch of experience playing for the national team, so he is probably not at all used to that kind of attention. It does highlight the risk that he may have trouble adapting to life as a pro in America.

he'll fit in Florida just fine

just get him some jorts, a tank top and flip flops.

 

[violaswallet]

That's not true, outside of the 1st:

Hyman
Donskoi
Petrovic(he turned to crap but had a few decent years with us)
Trocheck
Grimaldi
Brown
Weegar
Lammikko
Hawryluk
Stillman

From 2017 on, too early to judge.

That's not great, but it was respectable. Tallon was great at trades, decent at drafting, terrible with free agency. All in all average, but drafting is not what held us back.

compare against average record in league and number of draft picks: we got two top-6 or top-4 D in that Period while having an above average number of 2nd and third picks. That’s not good.

Stillman could be the third guy but we don’t know yet. For reference look at teams like Tampa or even Detroit

 

[Sticksandsun]

Of
Course you wouldn’t. Won’t give credit when due but place all the blame otherwise. Classic bias

Any good pick Joyce and any bad pick Tallon obviously

 

[batting1k]

Of
Course you wouldn’t. Won’t give credit when due but place all the blame otherwise. Classic bias

i don’t know if 2018 and 2019 are junk yet. Do you? Are you posting from the future?

 

[pantherbot]

compare against average record in league and number of draft picks: we got two top-6 or top-4 D in that Period while having an above average number of 2nd and third picks. That’s not good.

Stillman could be the third guy but we don’t know yet. For reference look at teams like Tampa or even Detroit

I don't think Tampa or Detriot would be considered average...?

 

[violaswallet]

I don't think Tampa or Detriot would be considered average...?

Over past ten years? Yes for Detroit, no to Tampa.

 

[violaswallet]

Over past ten years? Yes for Detroit, no to Tampa.

The major thing we need to do is consider the above average hits: most studies just count games but that’s not saying much: we want value above replacement


We are great with getting 4th lines and third pairing defensemen but often at bad value. It’s part of the reason Zito was brought in to develop from within


Edit: I checked the current rosters. Only Buffalo or Toronto have as weak output for the 2nd round and beyond in the Atlantic this season...both of which are generally considered not good with development. Toronto has the excuse that it’s often trading 2nd and 3rd pick though

 

[batting1k]

That's not true, outside of the 1st:

Hyman
Donskoi
Petrovic(he turned to crap but had a few decent years with us)
Trocheck
Grimaldi
Brown
Weegar
Lammikko
Hawryluk
Stillman

From 2017 on, too early to judge.

That's not great, but it was respectable. Tallon was great at trades, decent at drafting, terrible with free agency. All in all average, but drafting is not what held us back.

Lol c’mon. 57 picks from 2010-2016 and you’re picking out 10 guys, 5 of which are borderline replacement level / AHLers / in Europe.

Weegar was Paul Gallagher (Tallon admitted as much) who we fired, Donskoi was Kekalainen. Hyman also a good pick but can’t fault him for not wanting to be here.

Fact of the matter is, 2010 and 2011... 23 total picks. Should’ve set the team up for a decade.

Gudbranson was a god awful 3rd overal pick and never step foot in the AHL (which he probably should’ve), Durocher/Gallacher/Boyd/Brittain all retired some years later, Brickley, McFarland, Basaraba and Howden are somewhere in Europe because they’re not good enough for North American leagues, Petrovic in the AHL where he belongs.

Hyman and Donskoi the only useful players out of those 13 picks.

In 2011, congrats, we drafted Huberdeau 3rd overall. We drafted Grimaldi and Rau but somehow completely misindentifed the small guy that was actually going to be good (Gaudreau). Pakarinen, Shaw, Kosov, Wittchow, Bengtsson are all off in who knows what league playing meaningless hockey.

Huberdeau and Trocheck the only useful picks here. Maybe Grimaldi too but obviously the development curve was way longer than you’d hope.

2012 is a total failure. 2013 got Barkov (Kekalainen again) and Weegar (Paul Gallagher). The other 6 picks were busts.

Easy pick Ekblad in 2014. Hawryluk and Lammikko are replacement level guys. Other 3 picks busts.

My point isn’t necessarily that Dale himself sucked at drafting. I’m talking about the entire scouting staff as a whole. Aside from maybe 2 or 3 instances over the last 10 years, we’ve never found talent outside of the 1st round when other teams consistently have. Beyond that, we never find amateur talent outside of the draft to try to supplement these picks. That’s also key to building your team.

AHL development hasn’t been great but these picks have just been so bad. We’ve had to turn over the AHL team year after year because we don’t even draft guys good enough to play in the AHL lol.

Look at the teams that are consistently good year after year... Pittsburgh, Boston, Washington, Tampa, Columbus lately, Carolina lately, Detroit before the last couple years, islanders lately. They’ve all drafted well and have the better AHL teams, and most of them are made up of their own draft picks.

In game 6, Tampa had 12 guys in lineup that played for their AHL team. 8 of their own draft picks in the lineup, 2 were undrafted signings. And that’s not including Stamkos, Stephens, volkov, Joseph who were out of the lineup that night... 4 more draft picks, 3 played for their AHL team.

On top of that, they had guys like verhaeghe, cernak. They identified them as prospects early on with other teams, acquired them, and developed them in the AHL. That’s how you have to do it, and we just haven’t done it.

This isn’t totally up to date but look at this quick count I did back in February:

 

[violaswallet]

Lol c’mon. 57 picks from 2010-2016 and you’re picking out 10 guys, 5 of which are borderline replacement level / AHLers / in Europe.

Weegar was Paul Gallagher (Tallon admitted as much) who we fired, Donskoi was Kekalainen. Hyman also a good pick but can’t fault him for not wanting to be here.

Fact of the matter is, 2010 and 2011... 23 total picks. Should’ve set the team up for a decade.

Gudbranson was a god awful 3rd overal pick and never step foot in the AHL (which he probably should’ve), Durocher/Gallacher/Boyd/Brittain all retired some years later, Brickley, McFarland, Basaraba and Howden are somewhere in Europe because they’re not good enough for North American leagues, Petrovic in the AHL where he belongs.

Hyman and Donskoi the only useful players out of those 13 picks.

In 2011, congrats, we drafted Huberdeau 3rd overall. We drafted Grimaldi and Rau but somehow completely misindentifed the small guy that was actually going to be good (Gaudreau). Pakarinen, Shaw, Kosov, Wittchow, Bengtsson are all off in who knows what league playing meaningless hockey.

Huberdeau and Trocheck the only useful picks here. Maybe Grimaldi too but obviously the development curve was way longer than you’d hope.

2012 is a total failure. 2013 got Barkov (Kekalainen again) and Weegar (Paul Gallagher). The other 6 picks were busts.

Easy pick Ekblad in 2014. Hawryluk and Lammikko are replacement level guys. Other 3 picks busts.

My point isn’t necessarily that Dale himself sucked at drafting. I’m talking about the entire scouting staff as a whole. Aside from maybe 2 or 3 instances over the last 10 years, we’ve never found talent outside of the 1st round when other teams consistently have. Beyond that, we never find amateur talent outside of the draft to try to supplement these picks. That’s also key to building your team.

AHL development hasn’t been great but these picks have just been so bad. We’ve had to turn over the AHL team year after year because we don’t even draft guys good enough to play in the AHL lol. Look at the teams that are consistently good year after year... Pittsburgh, Boston, Washington, Tampa, Columbus lately, Detroit before the last couple years, islanders lately. They’ve all drafted well and have the better AHL teams, and most of them are made up of their own draft picks.

In game 6, Tampa had 12 guys in lineup that played for their AHL team. 8 of their own draft picks in the lineup, 2 were undrafted signings. And that’s not including Stamkos, Stephens, volkov, Joseph who were out of the lineup that night... 4 more draft picks, 3 played for their AHL team.

This isn’t totally up to date but look at this quick count I did back in February:

I only disagree with 2013: we got three NHL regulars and potentially part of ours top pairing for five years and arguably the most important player in franchise history

 

[batting1k]

I only disagree with 2013: we got three NHL regulars and potentially part of ours top pairing for five years and arguably the most important player in franchise history

Yeah, but you aren’t paid to make those top picks. The real work is done outside the first round, primarily.

 

[violaswallet]

Yeah, but you aren’t paid to make those top picks. The real work is done outside the first round, primarily.

And we got two guys? Weegar is a big win: a top 3 D in the bottom rounds is big

Partially disagree on first round: making the right choice isn’t easy and Barkov was definitely a surprise. Need to give Keko/Tallon credit there

 

[ProjectPanthers]

Lol c’mon. 57 picks from 2010-2016 and you’re picking out 10 guys, 5 of which are borderline replacement level / AHLers / in Europe.

Weegar was Paul Gallagher (Tallon admitted as much) who we fired, Donskoi was Kekalainen. Hyman also a good pick but can’t fault him for not wanting to be here.

Fact of the matter is, 2010 and 2011... 23 total picks. Should’ve set the team up for a decade.

Gudbranson was a god awful 3rd overal pick and never step foot in the AHL (which he probably should’ve), Durocher/Gallacher/Boyd/Brittain all retired some years later, Brickley, McFarland, Basaraba and Howden are somewhere in Europe because they’re not good enough for North American leagues, Petrovic in the AHL where he belongs.

Hyman and Donskoi the only useful players out of those 13 picks.

In 2011, congrats, we drafted Huberdeau 3rd overall. We drafted Grimaldi and Rau but somehow completely misindentifed the small guy that was actually going to be good (Gaudreau). Pakarinen, Shaw, Kosov, Wittchow, Bengtsson are all off in who knows what league playing meaningless hockey.

Huberdeau and Trocheck the only useful picks here. Maybe Grimaldi too but obviously the development curve was way longer than you’d hope.

2012 is a total failure. 2013 got Barkov (Kekalainen again) and Weegar (Paul Gallagher). The other 6 picks were busts.

Easy pick Ekblad in 2014. Hawryluk and Lammikko are replacement level guys. Other 3 picks busts.

My point isn’t necessarily that Dale himself sucked at drafting. I’m talking about the entire scouting staff as a whole. Aside from maybe 2 or 3 instances over the last 10 years, we’ve never found talent outside of the 1st round when other teams consistently have. Beyond that, we never find amateur talent outside of the draft to try to supplement these picks. That’s also key to building your team.

AHL development hasn’t been great but these picks have just been so bad. We’ve had to turn over the AHL team year after year because we don’t even draft guys good enough to play in the AHL lol.

Look at the teams that are consistently good year after year... Pittsburgh, Boston, Washington, Tampa, Columbus lately, Carolina lately, Detroit before the last couple years, islanders lately. They’ve all drafted well and have the better AHL teams, and most of them are made up of their own draft picks.

In game 6, Tampa had 12 guys in lineup that played for their AHL team. 8 of their own draft picks in the lineup, 2 were undrafted signings. And that’s not including Stamkos, Stephens, volkov, Joseph who were out of the lineup that night... 4 more draft picks, 3 played for their AHL team.

On top of that, they had guys like verhaeghe, cernak. They identified them as prospects early on with other teams, acquired them, and developed them in the AHL. That’s how you have to do it, and we just haven’t done it.

This isn’t totally up to date but look at this quick count I did back in February:

Great post, really outlines all the issues we've had with drafting over the last decade.

You see the trickle down effect of poor drafting in two ways.

First, with having no surprises come from the later rounds, so we are constantly on the lookout for more high-end talent because we just haven't been able to draft it outside of the 1st round. This puts a strain on our top end guys and limits our scoring ability to a very small core.

Secondly, the revolving door of 4th line plugs that have come and gone is insane. Almost all of them have failed to be anything meaningful at the NHL level so once again, our depth suffers and we scramble to pick up pieces in free agency or through other means.

Building from within is the key to success in this league and it's been proven time and time again. Until we turn this around we'll just keep treading water. Let's hope this years draft was a step in the right direction.

 

[vendetta]

Lol c’mon. 57 picks from 2010-2016 and you’re picking out 10 guys, 5 of which are borderline replacement level / AHLers / in Europe.

Weegar was Paul Gallagher (Tallon admitted as much) who we fired, Donskoi was Kekalainen. Hyman also a good pick but can’t fault him for not wanting to be here.

Fact of the matter is, 2010 and 2011... 23 total picks. Should’ve set the team up for a decade.

Gudbranson was a god awful 3rd overal pick and never step foot in the AHL (which he probably should’ve), Durocher/Gallacher/Boyd/Brittain all retired some years later, Brickley, McFarland, Basaraba and Howden are somewhere in Europe because they’re not good enough for North American leagues, Petrovic in the AHL where he belongs.

Hyman and Donskoi the only useful players out of those 13 picks.

In 2011, congrats, we drafted Huberdeau 3rd overall. We drafted Grimaldi and Rau but somehow completely misindentifed the small guy that was actually going to be good (Gaudreau). Pakarinen, Shaw, Kosov, Wittchow, Bengtsson are all off in who knows what league playing meaningless hockey.

Huberdeau and Trocheck the only useful picks here. Maybe Grimaldi too but obviously the development curve was way longer than you’d hope.

2012 is a total failure. 2013 got Barkov (Kekalainen again) and Weegar (Paul Gallagher). The other 6 picks were busts.

Easy pick Ekblad in 2014. Hawryluk and Lammikko are replacement level guys. Other 3 picks busts.

My point isn’t necessarily that Dale himself sucked at drafting. I’m talking about the entire scouting staff as a whole. Aside from maybe 2 or 3 instances over the last 10 years, we’ve never found talent outside of the 1st round when other teams consistently have. Beyond that, we never find amateur talent outside of the draft to try to supplement these picks. That’s also key to building your team.

AHL development hasn’t been great but these picks have just been so bad. We’ve had to turn over the AHL team year after year because we don’t even draft guys good enough to play in the AHL lol.

Look at the teams that are consistently good year after year... Pittsburgh, Boston, Washington, Tampa, Columbus lately, Carolina lately, Detroit before the last couple years, islanders lately. They’ve all drafted well and have the better AHL teams, and most of them are made up of their own draft picks.

In game 6, Tampa had 12 guys in lineup that played for their AHL team. 8 of their own draft picks in the lineup, 2 were undrafted signings. And that’s not including Stamkos, Stephens, volkov, Joseph who were out of the lineup that night... 4 more draft picks, 3 played for their AHL team.

On top of that, they had guys like verhaeghe, cernak. They identified them as prospects early on with other teams, acquired them, and developed them in the AHL. That’s how you have to do it, and we just haven’t done it.

This isn’t totally up to date but look at this quick count I did back in February:

Yup just as I thought. Totally dismiss tallon for the top picks and give credit to the scouts while blaming him for later rounds. Which is completely opposite of how it should be. I guess the final decision wasn’t made by tallon for Barkov and weegar. Also I highly doubt panthers are throwing the resources around their development like other more efficient teams.

 

[batting1k]

Yup just as I thought. Totally dismiss tallon for the top picks and give credit to the scouts while blaming him for later rounds. Which is completely opposite of how it should be. I guess the final decision wasn’t made by tallon for Barkov and weegar. Also I highly doubt panthers are throwing the resources around their development like other more efficient teams.

Sorry, I don’t give a GM credit for hitting on a consensus top 3 guy lol. Tallon himself gave credit to Gallagher for doing the work on Weegar.



But again, as I said in my post that you probably just skimmed, the issue is the scouting staff as a whole, not just Tallon. And then the amateur scouting and talent identification beyond the draft.

 

[Crossbar]

Never understood why teams passed over Weegs until the 7th round, the guy was amazing in winning the "Q" championship and Memorial Cup. It's not like he was hidden away somewhere in Siberia, it was one of the biggest stages in North American hockey. Yeah his Junior team was stacked with MacK, Drouin and Ehlers, but really to me it was a obvious low-risk/high-reward pick for the later rounds.