Speculation: 2023-24 Free Agency/Trade Thread II

[tomd]

I’d love Brady.

Would do:

Ducks: 3rd overall, zegras, zelleweger
Ott: 7th overall, tkachuk

Don’t know if that gets it done. All the maid board Zegras trade threads have me confused on whether he is a blue chip trade piece or hot garbage.

Ducks would do that but Ottawa probably wouldn’t IMO

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I mean, this is true, but Brady is really good in his own right. A 40+ goal guy easily the next 5-10 years and a premier power forward. Still more room to improve as he’s only 24.

I do wonder if Verbeek would consider like McTavish+ for him. Have to remember that Verbeek didn’t draft Mac as much as we all like him. I agree that Carlsson won’t be available

Gauthier-Carlsson-Killorn
Tkachuk-Zegras-Marchessault
Vatrano-Strome-Terry

Would be a pretty awesome team

Would be an interesting idea…. I think Brady is essentially what wed hope mctavish could become if he hits his ceiling, but Brady has a lot more of a traditional power forward style, and a lot more sand paper than mctavish.


Biggest issue would be our faceoffs being awful

 

[duxfan1101]

Would be an interesting idea…. I think Brady is essentially what wed hope mctavish could become if he hits his ceiling, but Brady has a lot more of a traditional power forward style, and a lot more sand paper than mctavish.


Biggest issue would be our faceoffs being awful

Believe it or not, Tkachuk takes a lot of faceoffs and his percentage is better than McT’s.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Believe it or not, Tkachuk takes a lot of faceoffs and his percentage is better than McT’s.

True, wasn’t aware of how many he takes but I knew he did take some(I think on his strong side)

The faceoff comment was more directed at carlsson and zegras not being very good in the dot

 

[ScarTroy]

True, wasn’t aware of how many he takes but I knew he did take some(I think on his strong side)

The faceoff comment was more directed at carlsson and zegras not being very good in the dot

Zegras we may have to accept it, but Carlsson should get much better. He’s 19.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Zegras we may have to accept it, but Carlsson should get much better. He’s 19.

I actually think zegras faceoffs can improve a lot in the dot…. hopefully it’s something pv and coaching staff push on him

 

[HanSolo]

Pretty sure Carlsson is gonna pass up Zegras in terms of production eventually in a year or two.
The team seems to view him as having a much higher ceiling/floor, He went straight to the NHL while Z needed a year in College and thats coming from a GM Verbeen who thinks prospects need more time to marinate.

Well it's not like another year in the SHL would've been a waste of time for Leo. Pat just made a judgment call that Leo could handle the NHL and development in the best league in the world would be the best option for him. Zegras wasn't as physically built to handle the NHL out of the draft. But I agree that Leo has the higher floor and he should be better than Z when his game settles to what it can be.

God damn, when did Zadorov become such a funny personality… I’d love to overpay to add him to our team. Him and Gudas would be such an amazing duel and good for our young defensemen.

Given what Zadorov has historically been in the NHL only to be something different on a well coached and talented team I think overpaying to add him to Anaheim would be a mistake.

I’d love Brady.

Would do:

Ducks: 3rd overall, zegras, zelleweger
Ott: 7th overall, tkachuk

Don’t know if that gets it done. All the maid board Zegras trade threads have me confused on whether he is a blue chip trade piece or hot garbage.

Huge pass. The intangibles Tkachuk has in his game are valuable but not enough to move away that package. I get that the positional difference between 3rd overall and 7th overall is not immense but the package of Z and Zell going out just to add a guy who (assuming Zegras gets to his offensive potential) might only be a marginal upgrade to Z in raw offensive numbers, I don't think Zell needs to be or should be the piece going back to add Tkachuk's physical/power forward elements, even if we lack that element currently. Add in that you're swapping away a favorable draft pick that lets Anaheim have their pick of the after Celebrini guys not picked by Chicago to a pick that is more of what consolation prize do you get after the top 6 picks and the whole thing seems lopsided to me.

 

[HanSolo]

I actually think zegras faceoffs can improve a lot in the dot…. hopefully it’s something pv and coaching staff push on him

Why can't Leo's faceoff numbers improve too?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Why can't Leo's faceoff numbers improve too?

Sorry that was just specifically directed toward accepting zegras face off numbers…. Wasn’t really talking about carlsson as he’s 19 in a new league it should obviously go up

 

[HanSolo]

Sorry that was just specifically directed toward accepting zegras face off numbers…. Wasn’t really talking about carlsson as he’s 19 in a new league it should obviously go up

I had a feeling just wanted to see if that was the implication you were making.

In any case, I think the Ducks could definitely use a guy like Brady and I know you have to give to get premier assets but I feel like that above package is underselling Zellweger a lot (or appreciating Zellweger's potential while overselling the need to move someone like that to get Tkachuk). I have more faith in him making a dynamic impact in the NHL as an OFD than I did with Jamie. I'd rather give up Luneau and a couple middling prospects and picks in a bigger package to get Brady.

 

[DavidBL]

Getzlaf was below 50% at faceoffs for years. There is nothing but the players themselves that limit their ability to improve. Not saying Z can be Bergeron but I have no problem seeing him get over 50 if he works for it.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Well it's not like another year in the SHL would've been a waste of time for Leo. Pat just made a judgment call that Leo could handle the NHL and development in the best league in the world would be the best option for him. Zegras wasn't as physically built to handle the NHL out of the draft. But I agree that Leo has the higher floor and he should be better than Z when his game settles to what it can be.

Given what Zadorov has historically been in the NHL only to be something different on a well coached and talented team I think overpaying to add him to Anaheim would be a mistake.
Huge pass. The intangibles Tkachuk has in his game are valuable but not enough to move away that package. I get that the positional difference between 3rd overall and 7th overall is not immense but the package of Z and Zell going out just to add a guy who (assuming Zegras gets to his offensive potential) might only be a marginal upgrade to Z in raw offensive numbers, I don't think Zell needs to be or should be the piece going back to add Tkachuk's physical/power forward elements, even if we lack that element currently. Add in that you're swapping away a favorable draft pick that lets Anaheim have their pick of the after Celebrini guys not picked by Chicago to a pick that is more of what consolation prize do you get after the top 6 picks and the whole thing seems lopsided to me.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think guys like Brady are exponentially more likely to lead to cups than guys like Zegras. Again, this sounds like I’m a zegras hater, and I am absolutely not, he is magic and a wonderful complementary piece. I just feel that guys who are elite scorers and can also drag their team into the flight (like Getz and Perry did), are invaluable. You get them if you have the chance.

 

[nbducksfan19]

I had a feeling just wanted to see if that was the implication you were making.

In any case, I think the Ducks could definitely use a guy like Brady and I know you have to give to get premier assets but I feel like that above package is underselling Zellweger a lot (or appreciating Zellweger's potential while overselling the need to move someone like that to get Tkachuk). I have more faith in him making a dynamic impact in the NHL as an OFD than I did with Jamie. I'd rather give up Luneau and a couple middling prospects and picks in a bigger package to get Brady.

In what world is Luneau and middling prospects getting Brady?

I would sub out Luneau for zellewger in my offer. I personally regard Luneau higher, but nearly a wash.

 

[Dirk316]

Thank god you’re not GM.

There are less then 10 players in the league I would trade him for, and he isn’t even the best Tkachuk brother.

And the idea that he would make the Ducks, a worse roster then the one he is on now, a contender when his current team can’t even make the playoffs is hilarious.

Ask Ottawa fans they would say no one for one. Please explain what makes this outrageous? In what way?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Ask Ottawa fans they would say no one for one. Please explain what makes this outrageous? In what way?

Ottawa prob says no

but anaheim isnt in a position to be moving Carlsson either

 

[HanSolo]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think guys like Brady are exponentially more likely to lead to cups than guys like Zegras. Again, this sounds like I’m a zegras hater, and I am absolutely not, he is magic and a wonderful complementary piece. I just feel that guys who are elite scorers and can also drag their team into the flight (like Getz and Perry did), are invaluable. You get them if you have the chance.

As of now there is no proof that he has that intangible ability to perform at a high level in the playoffs. It's sheer assumption. I believe a guy like him can and should fetch a premium. I just don't think this team should write a blank check and I'd rather see what we have with Zell or at least find a way to make him the main piece without giving away Zegras too. Like I said. He may be worth it in a bubble but for what Anaheim is getting versus what they're potentially giving up, it feels lopsided to me.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Well it's not like another year in the SHL would've been a waste of time for Leo. Pat just made a judgment call that Leo could handle the NHL and development in the best league in the world would be the best option for him. Zegras wasn't as physically built to handle the NHL out of the draft. But I agree that Leo has the higher floor and he should be better than Z when his game settles to what it can be.

Given what Zadorov has historically been in the NHL only to be something different on a well coached and talented team I think overpaying to add him to Anaheim would be a mistake.
Huge pass. The intangibles Tkachuk has in his game are valuable but not enough to move away that package. I get that the positional difference between 3rd overall and 7th overall is not immense but the package of Z and Zell going out just to add a guy who (assuming Zegras gets to his offensive potential) might only be a marginal upgrade to Z in raw offensive numbers, I don't think Zell needs to be or should be the piece going back to add Tkachuk's physical/power forward elements, even if we lack that element currently. Add in that you're swapping away a favorable draft pick that lets Anaheim have their pick of the after Celebrini guys not picked by Chicago to a pick that is more of what consolation prize do you get after the top 6 picks and the whole thing seems lopsided to me.

Yeah and he would have gone 1st overall if not for a near or at Crosby level prospect in Bedard.
If a player of Leo's pedigree and prospect rating doesn't become Anaheim's best forward then something went wrong or another player exceeded their ceiling. He had a good straight to NHL rookie season at age 18 that was better than 3 former 1st overalls rookie seasons in Hughes, Laf and, Slaf who really struggled to score. Then there was Owen Power who returned to College after the draft and made a short NHL debut later in the year.

I think Barzal is what I hope Zegras becomes (70 to 80 points per year). With Carlsson I think we can expect many 90+ point seasons while becoming betterr/stronger defensively at Center using his size, speed and reach. McTavish I think we hope he becomes a 60 to 70 point guy at some point.

 

[Rybread86]

Dirk type dream team:
Landeskog/Getzlaf/Wilson
Tkachuk/Cutter/Tkachuk
Moen/Kesler/Perry
Deslauriers/Gaucher/Parros

Pronger/Chara
Beauchemin/Weber
Bieksa/Phaneuf

Binnington
Gibson

Sign me up

 

[nbducksfan19]

U

As of now there is no proof that he has that intangible ability to perform at a high level in the playoffs. It's sheer assumption. I believe a guy like him can and should fetch a premium. I just don't think this team should write a blank check and I'd rather see what we have with Zell or at least find a way to make him the main piece without giving away Zegras too. Like I said. He may be worth it in a bubble but for what Anaheim is getting versus what they're potentially giving up, it feels lopsided to me.

Not saying you are wrong, and it would certainly be a gamble. I just think tkachuck is exactly the type of player we need and I have confidence in our scouts to backfill the loss of zelleweger as every year they add solid D prospects through the draft.

 

[HanSolo]

U


Not saying you are wrong, and it would certainly be a gamble. I just think tkachuck is exactly the type of player we need and I have confidence in our scouts to backfill the loss of zelleweger as every year they add solid D prospects through the draft.

Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather the Ducks grab Brady than Marner. It's just I've seen people here and there imply that you do whatever it takes to get a guy like that when available and I just don't agree that there's no limit to what you offer (especially in Marner's case). In a bubble, 3rd overall this year, Zegras, and Zellweger might not be enough for Ottawa (for 7th overall too) as it is. I just find that package to be too big a gamble on a guy that, yeah he would add some size and intensity to the top 6.

But even if we're being modest about what the Zs can be, let's say Zegras is an annual 70-75 point guy, Zellweger is a 40-45 point guy. The third overall downgrade to 7th overall could be the difference between a number 2 defenseman or top line winger (assuming everything goes well with Demidov or Lindstrom's development) and a second line, second pair guy. For me, I don't think the added intangibles (lets call them the benefits you get from a modern power-forward type) offsets what we (potentially) lose. Sure, power-forwards are so rare these days, you can't bank on developing your own in-house. But by the same token, I don't really feel like a Tkachuk is exactly what a team needs to win in today's NHL. Would he be great to have? Of course. Is he so essential that we should burn the farm and hope our scouts find good replacements? Not in my book, but it's just the way I see it.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather the Ducks grab Brady than Marner. It's just I've seen people here and there imply that you do whatever it takes to get a guy like that when available and I just don't agree that there's no limit to what you offer (especially in Marner's case). In a bubble, 3rd overall this year, Zegras, and Zellweger might not be enough for Ottawa (for 7th overall too) as it is. I just find that package to be too big a gamble on a guy that, yeah he would add some size and intensity to the top 6.

But even if we're being modest about what the Zs can be, let's say Zegras is an annual 70-75 point guy, Zellweger is a 40-45 point guy. The third overall downgrade to 7th overall could be the difference between a number 2 defenseman or top line winger (assuming everything goes well with Demidov or Lindstrom's development) and a second line, second pair guy. For me, I don't think the added intangibles (lets call them the benefits you get from a modern power-forward type) offsets what we (potentially) lose. Sure, power-forwards are so rare these days, you can't bank on developing your own in-house. But by the same token, I don't really feel like a Tkachuk is exactly what a team needs to win in today's NHL. Would he be great to have? Of course. Is he so essential that we should burn the farm and hope our scouts find good replacements? Not in my book, but it's just the way I see it.

I guess that I don’t see it as “burning the farm”. perhaps I’m lower on zelleweger than you and don’t feel there is a particular big gap between picks 3-7 in this draft.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Brady is a stupid penalty magnet. Can you imagine how much time he’d see in the box in Anaheim?

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Brady is a stupid penalty magnet. Can you imagine how much time he’d see in the box in Anaheim?

He'd see quite alot of penalty minutes in Anaheim. The Ducks could put together a roster of Fowler clones and they'd still be top5 in penalty minutes and 99% of the those penalty minutes would be accidental interference and holding. If ur gonna take a 2 minute penalty, i'd rather it be for delivering a hit (which hopefully wears down the other team).

On the flipside, Detroit could have a roster full of Tom Wilsons and still be in the bottom half of penalty minutes it seems. l remember the 07 and 2013 playoffs where it seemed like the Red Wings were gifted a PP every few 5 minutes and whenever one of the RedWings did something it was ignored by the refs.

 

[AngelDuck]

Brady is a stupid penalty magnet. Can you imagine how much time he’d see in the box in Anaheim?

Wouldn’t be any different than Perry/Kesler/Pronger and countless others we’ve had. Although, it is a different era now so I’ll give you that.

Still, if you can get him for the 3rd overall + Luneau or McTavish+Luneau, I think you do it personally. And I’m a big fan of all of those pieces