Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v13 | **WILDCARD SERIES GAME 2** Wed, Oct 4 | @ Min | 4:30pm ET/1:30pm PT | Berrios vs Gray

[Suntouchable13]

So i don't really think much of susbtance was said by Shapiro. He's obviously a much better speaker than Atkins. But Atkins will return, and aside from "Ross needs to do better" and "communicate better with players & staff", nothing was said about the failure to acquire better hitters thruout the season once it was clearly evident that this team wasn't performing.

Someone asked him about "Ross' failures thruout the season" and he just deflected into something like everyone isnt perfect or something like that.

He didnt take much accountability either.

To be fair, not much was out there in terms of bats.

 

[Bjindaho]

So i don't really think much of susbtance was said by Shapiro. He's obviously a much better speaker than Atkins. But Atkins will return, and aside from "Ross needs to do better" and "communicate better with players & staff", nothing was said about the failure to acquire better hitters thruout the season once it was clearly evident that this team wasn't performing.

Someone asked him about "Ross' failures thruout the season" and he just deflected into something like everyone isnt perfect or something like that.

He didnt take much accountability either.

The sad truth is that this team misses the playoffs without the contributions of Horwitz, Clement, and Schneider down the stretch.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Not surprising Atkins is returning. They're tied to the hip. Chances are Atkins' time with the Jays will be up once Shapiro's is (which likely won't be any time soon).

 

[trellaine201]

Once everything is completed at the stadium it’s probably understood he will move on etc IMO

 

[GoonieFace]

Not surprising Atkins is returning. They're tied to the hip. Chances are Atkins' time with the Jays will be up once Shapiro's is (which likely won't be any time soon).

Although he may speak in riddles, Atkins has done a good job for the most part. He thought they would turn it around offensively with the group they had, and they didn’t deliver. He deserves the chance to make improvements for next year

 

[tmlms13]

It always should have been Kirk that was moved. I still like Varsho, but I would have preferred moving Kirk for the best return possible for him. I would have taken Moreno+Kirk trade return over Kirk+Varsho.

Also before someone responds with what I know you're thinking, no the DBacks DID NOT want Kirk. I wish they did, could have had Moreno and Varsho.

Atkins should have recognized Moreno + Jansen is better than Kirk + Jansen in October 2022, you don't have to wait for Moreno to develop for 4 years to surpass Kirk he's better now.

Trade Kirk for a bag of sunflower seeds for all I care.

Dbacks might have done Kirk, LG Jr plus plus for Varsho, we'll never know. But Moreno should have been untouchable.

Last time we traded a prospect rated as high as Moreno at least we got David Price, a proven commodity.

 

[GoonieFace]

Atkins should have recognized Moreno + Jansen is better than Kirk + Jansen in October 2022, you don't have to wait for Moreno to develop for 4 years to surpass Kirk he's better now.

Trade Kirk for a bag of sunflower seeds for all I care.

Dbacks might have done Kirk, LG Jr plus plus for Varsho, we'll never know. But Moreno should have been untouchable.

Last time we traded a prospect rated as high as Moreno at least we got David Price, a proven commodity.

Your undervaluing of Kirk speaks volumes. So you are comparing 11 starts from Price to possible 4 years of Varsho? Good stuff

 

[tmlms13]

Your undervaluing of Kirk speaks volumes. So you are comparing 11 starts from Price to possible 4 years of Varsho? Good stuff

What'd you rather have after 2022 playoffs?

Kirk or Moreno?

I'd take Moreno. Heck, trade Jansen for a piece of bubble gum and roll with Kirk + Moreno. Catchers are like goalies now, you need a tandem.

 

[Puckstuff]

 

[MK78]

Although he may speak in riddles, Atkins has done a good job for the most part. He thought they would turn it around offensively with the group they had, and they didn’t deliver. He deserves the chance to make improvements for next year

There were 3 months before the deadline to see that they weren't hitting. They got a guy that had 2 hits in 13 games. HUGE miss.

Signs were there last year that Kirk was declining in production, so was Vladdy.

They should have sent Kirk somewhere else if Dbacks didnt want him. Moreno's upside was too high to keep over Kirk.

Kirk was a flash in the pan offensively for half a season.

The sad truth is that this team misses the playoffs without the contributions of Horwitz, Clement, and Schneider down the stretch.

Yup. and probably by 4-5 games out.

 

[GoonieFace]

There were 3 months before the deadline to see that they weren't hitting. They got a guy that had 2 hits in 13 games. HUGE miss.

Signs were there last year that Kirk was declining in production, so was Vladdy.

They should have sent Kirk somewhere else if Dbacks didnt want him. Moreno's upside was too high to keep over Kirk.

Kirk was a flash in the pan offensively for half a season.


Yup. and probably by 4-5 games out.

Kirk had a down offensive year, but I wouldn’t write him off yet. Also it’s a little early to anoint Moreno as the next great thing. Like any trade, it’s still too early to evaluate.

 

[MK78]

Kirk had a down offensive year, but I wouldn’t write him off yet. Also it’s a little early to anoint Moreno as the next great thing. Like any trade, it’s still too early to evaluate.

Kirk will start having knee issues in a year or two. I don't foresee him being a catcher for long, because of his short stocky body size and his weight obviously. He already catches on one knee a lot.

 

[MK78]

Braves are done, Phillies win NLDS.

I guess AA needs to get fired.

 

[tmlms13]

LDS winners win totals....90, 90, 90, 84

LDS losers win totals.... 104, 101, 100, 87

 

[GoonieFace]

Acuna hits .143 in the playoffs, abysmal, this guy is trash. POS….am I doing this right?

 

[Suntouchable13]

LDS winners win totals....90, 90, 90, 84

LDS losers win totals.... 104, 101, 100, 87

It’s possible that winning your division and having a bye into the LDS is not an advantage at all. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the long haul. I would still wager that teams that win their division will have more success over a larger sample size.

 

[Eyedea]

There were 3 months before the deadline to see that they weren't hitting. They got a guy that had 2 hits in 13 games. HUGE miss.

Signs were there last year that Kirk was declining in production, so was Vladdy.

They should have sent Kirk somewhere else if Dbacks didnt want him. Moreno's upside was too high to keep over Kirk.

Kirk was a flash in the pan offensively for half a season.


Yup. and probably by 4-5 games out.

I love this argument that Kirk was a flash in the pan when his 2023 season was on par with Moreno's offensively. In fact Moreno still hits by far the most groundballs of any catcher in the league. He's done well to hit for power in the postseason but I haven't seen any evidence that suggests he's a better overall hitter than Kirk.

And then the signs for Vladdy declining? The signs the entire year showed that he should be hitting better than what he was. That's exactly what Atkins was referring to when he said he believed that the team would turn it around. If you look at expected stats vs reality you can see that Vlad, Bo, Chapman, Springer, Kirk, and Varsho all hit worse than expected. This isn't even accounting pre-season projections. This is taking into account their expected average and slugging based on their batted ball events during the season.

He said as much in his presser that he believed, and now that the season is done it's hard to continue that belief and changes need to be made to improve the offence. But I still think Kirk will come back next year and prove his worth.

 

[DuklaNation]

Jays need to figure out what they have with Vladdy before they pay him. Other than 2021 (Dunedin/Buffalo), his stats in the other 4 seasons are very similar to each other. Solid, but not all star numbers.

 

[tmlms13]

Jays need to figure out what they have with Vladdy before they pay him. Other than 2021 (Dunedin/Buffalo), his stats in the other 4 seasons are very similar to each other. Solid, but not all star numbers.

Best power season while playing home games in AAA stadiums

Shocking

 

[Suntouchable13]

Best power season while playing home games in AAA stadiums

Shocking

I don’t know what to do with Vlad because Jays were relying on him to be a superstar based on his talent level. They need to unlock something in him soon.

 

[tmlms13]

I don’t know what to do with Vlad because Jays were relying on him to be a superstar based on his talent level. They need to unlock something in him soon.

Every Gausman home start should be played at Christie Pits. Strike out heavy pitcher for the Jays. Tell Vlad to play like it's the home run derby.

 

[Eyedea]

Best power season while playing home games in AAA stadiums

Shocking

Was Vladdy the only person playing there?

 

[cyris]

Was Vladdy the only person playing there?

And did he hit much better at home that year than on the road. Also did his power numbers take a massive dip when the jays were finally able to play in Toronto.

I’ve seen people imply that minor league parks were the reason for Vladdy’s numbers that season a few times now and if it’s true the underlying numbed should back that up

 

[GreytWun]

Acuna hits .143 in the playoffs, abysmal, this guy is trash. POS….am I doing this right?

So your saying he hit better than 5 of our starting lineup? Not bad.

 

[Eyedea]

And did he hit much better at home that year than on the road. Also did his power numbers take a massive dip when the jays were finally able to play in Toronto.

I’ve seen people imply that minor league parks were the reason for Vladdy’s numbers that season a few times now and if it’s true the underlying numbed should back that up

It's true he hit better at home than on the road, and it is true he showed more power there than on the road. But his September/October was also unreal where he hit 9 home runs, 4 of which came at the dome. For context he hit 10 home runs at home this year, the first of which came June 23rd against Oakland. He also hit better at home in 2022 (140 wRC+) than on the road. There's nothing that definitively suggests he's declined in hitting. It simply shows a lack of consistency (one year better at home, the next better on the road, etc.). If he was hitting closer to his expected stats he would've been in the 140-150 wRC+ area which is comparable to the Soto's and Acuna's (career wise).