2024 “Tank” Thread

Where will the Ducks finish in the standings?


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gilfaizon

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Mar 28, 2012
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money isn't the sole factor in teams winning cups, but it plays a big role. recent cup winners like vegas, avs, and bolts all had top 10 payrolls

this team has stockpiled enough young talent that throwing money at a big name FA in the next couple years wouldn't really be a bad idea. zegras, carlsson, mctavish, mintyukov, and gauthier is a pretty damn good foundation. plus whoever they're going to draft top 5 this year. if they handed out a big contract 3-4 years ago, that would've been stupid

Which big name FA is going to put this team over the top? Both in the short and long-term? Reinhart? Not sure if we are much more than a bottom 5 team even if Reinhart was here. The young guys you've named need to simply get better. They ARE our big ticket players, and need to play like it. The FA acquisitions are simply insulation for them. We will see how this core grows/changes over the next year or two, I wouldn't be surprised to see a core player or two shipped out to add different elements.

Tampa and Colorado both built strong organizations through the draft. Look how many of their core players when they won were drafted by the org. Thats the blueprint PV is trying to follow.
 

Hockey Duckie

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Jul 25, 2003
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how about putting some of that money into the team instead of arena renovations and ocvibe? we all know the samuelis aren't exactly struggling financially

its pretty apparent that they see the ducks as just another source of income. as long as the team is bringing in $$$, they're content. no playoffs for 6 years now? damn, that sucks......but hey, at least we're still profiting

You're confusing ownership duties with GM duties. Our ownership is hands off on hockey operations, but is also supportive of what they want to do. Owning the Ducks without the playoffs is the owners losing money. This has been shared often, including by our owners.

The owners have other ventures to make up for the losses of owning the Ducks. The arena renovations and OC Vibe are part of their other ventures. The Samuelis rent out the arena for other functions beyond the Ducks in order to make up money for the loss of owning the Ducks when they're not in playoff contention. The OC Vibe is add more attractions for more functions at the Arena as well as a new form of income outside of Ducks.

Without the Samueli ownership, I think the Ducks would have either been contracted or relocated. The Samueli's have secured that the Ducks stay in Anaheim. They have done so much so the Ducks can remain in Anaheim such as buying their own AHL club and then creating an AHL Pacific division to bring more hockey awareness out west. They have helped develop high school hockey by buying rinks in So Cal and renovating them. Recently, they created Five Point Arena - Great Park Ice.

Eventually, the Ducks would have to go into rebuild mode like most teams that have been successful for a long time. Before GM Bob Murray went into a rebuild mode at the 2018-19 TDL, Anaheim has been playoff bound in 11 out of 13 seasons with Burkie and Bob as GM's. If we include when Bryan Murray was GM, then it's 12 out of 15 seasons.

2021-22 season came and many things went great for the Ducks, who were healthy to start the season and had some youth develop to help with the cause in Terry, Zegras, and Drysdale. Murray had to stepdown as GM due to his alcoholism outbursts in early November. It took until all-star break, in February, for the Ducks to hire a new GM in Verbeek.

Verbeek inherited a team that was 3rd in the Pacific at all-star break. Then he decided to blow up the team and re-start the rebuild. That was all on Verbeek, not the ownership. You gotta reframe the sequence that this is year 6 of the rebuild, but year 2 of the reset rebuild. A majority of our best talents are age 22 and younger. Therein lies the problem and reason why not much is happening until those youths develop into stars as well as acquiring proper support for them.

Controlling the cap is one of Verbeek's priorities. He was firm on term. He will pay higher cash for shorter term than lower cash and longer term. Which is why the reset rebuild suits him better because he's essentially playing with a clean slate and less complications of building off of what Murray had set up. Verbeek catfished us when he said,
"This team doesn't need to be rebuilt; they're in the middle of their rebuild, so this is a great opportunity to take this team forward and turn them into a contender," Verbeek said during his introductory press conference. "You don't have to come in there and look to take a long time. There's good players in the NHL, good players in the minors and there are players that have been drafted. There's a lot coming to support the growth of this team. That's truly what I'm excited about."

The ownership wants playoff appearances to stop hemorrhaging losses. They thought the playoffs would come soon under Verbeek with that endorsement. Apparently, it did not. Please put the blame on the appropriate target why we are not in the playoffs sooner, which is GM Verbeek.
 

lwvs84

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
4,147
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money isn't the sole factor in teams winning cups, but it plays a big role. recent cup winners like vegas, avs, and bolts all had top 10 payrolls

this team has stockpiled enough young talent that throwing money at a big name FA in the next couple years wouldn't really be a bad idea. zegras, carlsson, mctavish, mintyukov, and gauthier is a pretty damn good foundation. plus whoever they're going to draft top 5 this year. if they handed out a big contract 3-4 years ago, that would've been stupid
Not to mention that there has probably been less than 5 teams since the 07 Ducks that have NOT circumvented the cap (the backdiving contracts to keep AAV down).
 

Hockey Duckie

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Jul 25, 2003
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money isn't the sole factor in teams winning cups, but it plays a big role. recent cup winners like vegas, avs, and bolts all had top 10 payrolls

this team has stockpiled enough young talent that throwing money at a big name FA in the next couple years wouldn't really be a bad idea. zegras, carlsson, mctavish, mintyukov, and gauthier is a pretty damn good foundation. plus whoever they're going to draft top 5 this year. if they handed out a big contract 3-4 years ago, that would've been stupid

Vegas, Avs, and Bolts also have top end talents at their peak. Our ducklings still haven't figured out how to fly yet. Our new found veterans under Verbeek aren't top end talents. We're getting players from those playoff teams that have better alternatives. That means we're still in a holding pattern before we can spend b/c we don't know what we truly have in our youths yet. We have promise of a good foundation, but nothing is set yet.
 

CrazyDuck4u

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Oct 14, 2006
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how about putting some of that money into the team instead of arena renovations and ocvibe? we all know the samuelis aren't exactly struggling financially

its pretty apparent that they see the ducks as just another source of income. as long as the team is bringing in $$$, they're content. no playoffs for 6 years now? damn, that sucks......but hey, at least we're still profiting
Oh I agree wholey with you on that... In the end.. All the owners are the same.. The bottom line..
 

McDonald19

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Sep 9, 2003
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Tampa and Colorado both built strong organizations through the draft. Look how many of their core players when they won were drafted by the org. Thats the blueprint PV is trying to follow.
Yup. That’s why I’m always hoping the Ducks can draft a franchise altering player like MacKinnon or Stamkos. Unfortunately McTavish and Carlsson may be in the tier below that.

2008 1st overall pick - Stamkos
2009 2nd overall pick - Hedman

2013 1st overall pick - MacKinnon
2017 4th overall pick - Makar
 

Boo Boo

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Jan 31, 2013
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Yup. That’s why I’m always hoping the Ducks can draft a franchise altering player like MacKinnon or Stamkos. Unfortunately McTavish and Carlsson may be in the tier below that.

2008 1st overall pick - Stamkos
2009 2nd overall pick - Hedman

2013 1st overall pick - MacKinnon
2017 4th overall pick - Makar
I think you have to just give them time to forge their own destiny
 

TheGoodShepard1

Dongle Digits.
Nov 26, 2017
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14,749
These f***ers might actually do it again. I don’t THINK they will, but I didn’t think they were gonna lose 13 in a row and only earn 2 points out of the final possible 26 last season to back into the #1 spot pre-lottery.

Group just looks totally defeated psychologically
 

Rasp

Registered User
Apr 9, 2019
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These f***ers might actually do it again. I don’t THINK they will, but I didn’t think they were gonna lose 13 in a row and only earn 2 points out of the final possible 26 last season to back into the #1 spot pre-lottery.

Group just looks totally defeated psychologically
Its hard to see us win another game this year. We have Blackhawks at home then its all tough teams.

Jets
Blues x2
Wild
Blackhawks
Lightning
Kraken x3
Oilers
Canucks
Flames x2
Kings x2
Knights

Its hard to see the Blackhawks win 4.5 more games this year or the Sharks win 5.5 games to pass us.
 

Ducks DVM

sowcufucakky
Jun 6, 2010
52,322
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Long Beach, CA
These f***ers might actually do it again. I don’t THINK they will, but I didn’t think they were gonna lose 13 in a row and only earn 2 points out of the final possible 26 last season to back into the #1 spot pre-lottery.

Group just looks totally defeated psychologically
I was looking at the schedule thinking the 2 Chicago games were the only ones we had a reasonable chance to win.

Ha. Joke is on me.
 

emptynetter3

Registered User
Jan 8, 2024
5
4
losing culture isnt a draft or free agency signing away from changing....this organization has dug a deep hole and they are still digging it, losing should never be accepted and 90% of team knows nothing else.....its going to take massive changes for this team to start winning again and there is NOTHING in this years draft that will change it....get use to it.
 
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CrazyDuck4u

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Oct 14, 2006
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losing culture isnt a draft or free agency signing away from changing....this organization has dug a deep hole and they are still digging it, losing should never be accepted and 90% of team knows nothing else.....its going to take massive changes for this team to start winning again and there is NOTHING in this years draft that will change it....get use to it.
Thats the problem now.. PV owns all of this.. Maybe Cronin was the wrong hire? Time will tell. But something is definitely rotten with this franchise. From players always hurt.. To players just playing like they could give a less fk... We are become buffalo west.. Shit We might be already.. Its fkin ridiculous. Shit needs to change....I said it before.. A young star probably needs to traded for these players to get thier heads out of thier ass.. This team is full of p***yes with no leadership skills.. The balls on the team are Gudas and Myntikov whos a fking rookie.. That should not happen.. Ross Johnston is useless. SIlver Usless. We just have to many usless players right now taking up roster spots..
 

Sniperberg

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Mar 30, 2017
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Yup. That’s why I’m always hoping the Ducks can draft a franchise altering player like MacKinnon or Stamkos. Unfortunately McTavish and Carlsson may be in the tier below that.

2008 1st overall pick - Stamkos
2009 2nd overall pick - Hedman

2013 1st overall pick - MacKinnon
2017 4th overall pick - Makar
I mean, if we are trying to stay overly positive here then the 2016/2017 season for the Avs was hilariously bad (48pts yo!) and they still had MacKinnon, Rantanen, Duchene et.al.

So, things aint THAT bad just yet!
 
Jan 21, 2011
5,275
3,918
Massachusetts
These f***ers might actually do it again. I don’t THINK they will, but I didn’t think they were gonna lose 13 in a row and only earn 2 points out of the final possible 26 last season to back into the #1 spot pre-lottery.

Group just looks totally defeated psychologically

You really think they improved over last season?
 
Jan 21, 2011
5,275
3,918
Massachusetts
Thats the problem now.. PV owns all of this.. Maybe Cronin was the wrong hire? Time will tell. But something is definitely rotten with this franchise. From players always hurt.. To players just playing like they could give a less fk... We are become buffalo west.. Shit We might be already.. Its fkin ridiculous. Shit needs to change....I said it before.. A young star probably needs to traded for these players to get thier heads out of thier ass.. This team is full of p***yes with no leadership skills.. The balls on the team are Gudas and Myntikov whos a fking rookie.. That should not happen.. Ross Johnston is useless. SIlver Usless. We just have to many usless players right now taking up roster spots..

Maybe they both were? I’ve soured on them completely.

Unimpressed with Verbeek and Cronin. Go figure, they have the same ‘hardworking’ mindset that has allowed us to be in the bottom half of the league
 

Reveille1984

Registered User
Dec 3, 2014
853
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I mean, if we are trying to stay overly positive here then the 2016/2017 season for the Avs was hilariously bad (48pts yo!) and they still had MacKinnon, Rantanen, Duchene et.al.

So, things aint THAT bad just yet!

After that year COL were at least respectable/middle of the pack for a couple seasons while developing their guys. Obviously having a core of MacKinnon/Rantanen/Makar will do a lot for accelerating your rebuild, but this is six years in a row now of Anaheim being complete shit tier with no end in sight. Sure, Verbeek "reset" the timeline but that doesn't change reality.

At this point we need to start considering using some of our draft/talent/financial capital to shore up a major deficiency here or there, such as a top-4, defensively reliable blueliner with a proven track record to provide some stability for these guys. Minty might get there in a few years, but he's 20 years old. Zellweger is 20 years old. Luneau is 20 years old with an ever increasing injury history. Then we have Fowler and Gudas at 33/34 next year. Waiting around another half decade for these guys to hopefully mature while they're ground into dust night after night can't be the plan.

We're basically too young and too old at the same time. We barely have a single high-end player in their prime throughout our entire roster (Terry?), and the longer we wait for every single one of these guys to hopefully come to fruition the more we're actually going to become "Buffalo West".

Patience during a rebuild is necessary, but your kids still need something to look towards as a model of success and intelligently filling a hole here or there with actual good players is likely necessary given our roster construction. A lot of people seem to have this mindset of you need to be complete dumpster fire garbage or high end SC contender with no in between, but there's also consequences from your franchise becoming a perpetual laughingstock.
 

FiveTacos

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Oct 2, 2017
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100%

On March 15th last season they were -102 in goal differential and finished the season -129.
They are currently -69. They were just THAT bad last year that even after a huge improvement they are still a bottom 4 team.

Also much improved in regulation wins this year.

But yeah, the Ducks this year are just "normal" bad. Last year was one of the worst I've seen, like all-time bad, probably on par with the horrific late 80s Nords or early 90s Sens teams.
 
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eaterfan

Registered User
Nov 29, 2023
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100%

On March 15th last season they were -102 in goal differential and finished the season -129.
They are currently -69. They were just THAT bad last year that even after a huge improvement they are still a bottom 4 team.

Also, this team seems more banged up than last year's. Maybe I'm imagining it, but it sure seems that way.
 
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Hockey Duckie

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Also, this team seems more banged up than last year's. Maybe I'm imagining it, but it sure seems that way.


Injury Viz 2022-23 (last year, all 82 games)
Injury Viz, 2022-23 (82 games).png



Injury Viz 2023-24 (63 games)
Injury Viz, Man Game lost (63 games) 2023-24.png


Last year, the loss of Drysdale was something the defense could not overcome. Also, Vaak was never healthy enough to develop into a serviceable bottom-6 LD. This year, we were able to trade away Drysdale due to the influx of talent in vets RD Gudas and RD Lyubushking, rookies LaCombe and Minty, as well as the development of Vaak b/c Vaak is able to stay healthy.

By default, our defense improved due to added talent, appropriate side d-men, and defensive bite.

100%

On March 15th last season they were -102 in goal differential and finished the season -129.
They are currently -69. They were just THAT bad last year that even after a huge improvement they are still a bottom 4 team.

Last year's defense was atrocious! I'll add onto that

  • After 66 games for non special teams scoring
    • Last year: ESGF = 136, ESGA = 205, ESGD = - 69
    • This year: ESGF = 132, ESGA = 170, ESGD = - 38

Oddly enough, we score more on ES last year than this year. huh.

The huge improvement is due to huge roster additions on defense, as shared above. Yet the sum of the parts cannot make a whole, which is point production results.

  • After 66 games
    • Last year's record: 22-35-9 (53 pts)
    • This year's record: 23-40-3 (49 pts)

Shouldn't we have a better record with a huge improvement on defense?

Also much improved in regulation wins thus year.

But yeah, the Ducks this year are just "normal" bad. Last year was one of the worst I've seen, like all-time bad, probably on par with the horrific late 80s Nords or early 90s Sens teams.

Do regulation wins matter with bottom feeder teams? Are we in need of a tie-breaker with regulation wins as a bottom feeding team?

How about the ability to garner more points? After 66 games, last year's club was able to accrue more points with a far weaker roster, especially on defense.

Why not use 1-goal game comparisons, since Verbeek likes to allude to 1-goal games being a game changer.

Ducks 1-goal games2022-23
Type of GamesGamesWLOTLPtsPct of gamesPoint Share
Game 1 to 66662235953
100.0%​
40.2%​
1-goal games26143937
39.4%​
71.2%​
Non 1-g games40832016
60.6%​
20.0%​

Ducks 1-goal games2023-24
Type of GamesGamesWLOTLPtsPct of gamesPoint Share
Game 1 to 6666
23​
40​
3​
49​
100.0%​
37.1%​
1-goal games27
13​
11​
3​
29​
40.9%​
53.7%​
Non 1-g games39
10​
29​
0​
20​
59.1%​
25.6%​

With a better roster, especially on defense, why is last year's team more proficient at earning more points in one-goal games?

This year's coaching is worse than last year's coaching. Last year's team knew how to earn points with far less talents available.
 

gunnergunther

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
765
830
Chicago has a really easy stretch coming up, where I can easily see them win 4 of 6. I know 8 pts in 16 games is nearly impossible to make up. But I guess we’ll know more in about a week.
 
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AngelDuck

Rak 'em up
Jun 16, 2012
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If we lose out or only get like 3 points more then we could absolutely finish dead last. Will be tough though
 
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