Around the NHL — Episode XLXVI

[DueDiligence]

Literally Pierre Dorion. We’ve known about this for 2 months now and the possibility has existed since then.

But what if Batherson and Formenton themselves or their agents denied they were involved? Is PD expected to do his own investigation? I am quite sure with a lawyer heading up the Sens 3 person executive management team that PD now reports to they would have done some due diligence with the league office to see where those players might stand.

 

[benjiv1]

That seems weird to me. We had our own 2023 and 2024 2nds. I can’t see an additional 2024 2nd being the missing piece in a potential deal.

Then why the urgency to trade him? Don’t owe him a dime until we start playing, and you can get a 2nd for him any day of the week.

 

[BondraTime]

Then why the urgency to trade him? Don’t owe him a dime until we start playing, and you can get a 2nd for him any day of the week.

Because they got a 2nd from the Caps and were happy with that return taking no salary back, which they definitely couldn't have gotten any day of the week. Gave them an added piece to use in any trade they may come by for a D.

Pretty much every team save a few, like Washington, that would have been looking at him would have been doing so with salary being included from their end

 

[Bevans]

If that is the case, imagine how STUPID the Connor Brown trade will become, like dumber than anything else Dorion has done including Zibanejad + 2nd for Brassard, or a 2nd for 6.5 AAV Stepan in cap world, etc

I had a related post deleted earlier but I don't want to talk about the problem in itself, I want to talk about the disastrous impact it would have on our roster.

Imagine losing Batherson + Brown + Formenton

Replacing them by DeBrincat + Giroux + Gambrell would be "staying afloat"

So basically that would mean we spent a 7th OA pick to stay afloat?

The longer the quest for a RHD, expulsion of Zaitsev, and spector of WJC drag on, the more apparent it becomes that Dorion rushed Brown.

I think he was on tilt from a couple big wins and rushed both Norris and Brown. I suggested as much the day before Norris resigned.

 

[benjiv1]

Because they got a 2nd from the Caps and were happy with that return taking no salary back, which they definitely couldn't have gotten any day of the week. Gave them an added piece to use in any trade they may come by for a D.

Pretty much every team save a few, like Washington, that would have been looking at him would have been doing so with salary being included from their end

Disagree given what I have been told, but to each their own.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Then why the urgency to trade him? Don’t owe him a dime until we start playing, and you can get a 2nd for him any day of the week.

It's hard to trade players, even ones making $3.6M, without taking money back. The closer you got to September, the harder it would have gotten.

The types of teams that'd be interested in Brown for 1 year are the teams that think they can win. Teams that think they can win probably wouldn't have ~$4M of cap space right before training camp.

The most salary flexibility a team has is between the draft and the first couple of weeks of free-agency.

If we were willing to take money back? Sure, trading Brown could have happened at any time.

 

[GCK]

Then why the urgency to trade him? Don’t owe him a dime until we start playing, and you can get a 2nd for him any day of the week.

As I have tried to explain, it’s a big ticket for most teams to absorb in September without money coming back. They were so close to trading him to Edmonton right before signing Giroux and that deal fell apart so they moved on to the next deal. Sportsnet had the article about the Edmonton deal done when the trade fell through, the article regarding Washington trade was a quick edit that wasn’t vetted. His money went to Giroux.

Capitals get Connor Brown from Senators for 2024 second-round pick – Sportsnet.ca

 

[Qward]

For all we know Dorion was instructed to clear salary before being allowed to make any moves. For all we know he was getting Marino but the deal fell through.

 

[Hale The Villain]

For all we know Dorion was instructed to clear salary before being allowed to make any moves. For all we know he was getting Marino but the deal fell through.

I think the first part is accurate. We needed to clear salary after adding DeBrincat's 9M and Giroux's 6.5M.

We weren't interested in Marino's 5 year term so it wasn't that.

 

[Xspyrit]

Have you considered he moved Brown because it was a solid thing to do for Brown? His ice time and productivity was going to be severely curtailed here given our acquisitions of Joseph, DeBrincat and Giroux. Brown may have spent a lot of his time on a 4th line.

It's a contract year for him. These guys have exit interviews. Two adults sitting in a room, one telling the other he may have a significantly reduced role. Upon hearing that, Brown may well have indicated his preference to move given it's a contract year.

If I'm Brown I'm looking for lower end top 6 money in free agency. He's not likely to get that playing 13 minutes a night and PKing.

And if we kept him and moved him in March at the TDL, it sends an awful message if we're in striking distance

Sometimes moves are made because of the players interest. Lots of examples of it.

I really like Brown but can we think about our interests as well? Look at what Bryan Murray did for Mike Fisher. He did him a "solid" by trading him to Nashville but still got a 1st + 3rd back. Yes he was a Center but was not even as productive as Brown. The 3 years prior to the trade, he had 0.51 PPG (Brown had 0.61 PPG in comparison). Mike also had a 4.2 AAV in 2010-11, which is the equivalent of 5.76 today (3.6 AAV for Brown). The difference here is Bryan Murray was able to get a solid return WHILE accommodating his player and Pierre Dorion doing I don't know the f*** what, as usual.

Brown would have still been our most used forward on the PK and among the most at ES as well. Don't forget there's always injuries (so the big 6 might not always be in the lineup at the same time). His PP time would have decreased but it doesn't matter much, for example only 8 of his 78 points in 2019-20 + 2020-21 came on the PP

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
DeBrincat - Stutzle - Giroux
Formenton - Pinto - Brown

Brown might not have played 20 mins per game like he did the last 3 seasons but probably easily 17-18 with his PK role. And considering you need matchup forwards at Even Strength, these guys always end up getting minutes.

But anyway, why are we talking about this? ALL MY POSTS were about the hypothetical scenario that IF Batherson and Formenton would suddenly disappear. It looks like several posters totally missed that part.

Who in the hell could predict that there was the possibility that Batherson and Formenton would not be playing in 2022-23?

lol the Hockey Canada scandal was brought to light months before Connor Brown was traded. A smart GM keeps his player until the situation is resolved (heck, not someone smart, just someone NOT dumb). UNLESS he's 100% confident that his players were not involved.

Hard to think that this forum will talk about losing Brown for a 2nd more than losing Z-bad. I can't really fault management for something out of their control. Now if Ottawa had selected them in the draft with the foreknowledge that they may be sexual predators than I blame them 100%. I knew the Sens summer was going to well.

No, of course Zbad is a bigger story but we're talking about stupidity here. Like trading a 2nd round pick for Derek Stepan who was literally a cap dump at 6.5 AAV. It was a stupid move right away. We didn't need the benefit of hindsight

There was no rush to trade Brown, he's not even paid this summer. Buy a bit more time for the team canada scandal to get resolved. I really doubt he would have LESS value than a 2024 2nd in training camp for example...

Like Hale The Villain always explained all these MISmanagement moves add up when you look at them both ways

You speak like you know exactly what is about to happen.

Were you in the room when Dorion signed Giroux? Were you there when the team decided they had to trade Brown? If no, then please stop acting like you know everything.


For all we know, Dorion asked Bath and Formenton, or their agents, or their lawyers, if they had any involvement, and then based his decision on Brown off what they told him.


We don't know nearly enough about these events to start blaming Dorion for stuff.

You really didn't read my post carefully if that's what you took out of it. I was really not talking as if "know everything". I was talking about an HYPOTHETICAL scenario where Batherson and Formenton would get "fired/terminated"

Looking at the post you quoted, I think it was pretty clear so not sure why you're getting the impression that I am talking about the things you're saying here. I am not. I mean, my post started with "IF that is the case" meaning it was 100% hypothetical right away

How can it be more clear? Please let me know. I am always ready to learn because well, I don't know "everything"

I am not "blaming" Dorion here. The IF is really really determining.

 

[God Says No]

I think the first part is accurate. We needed to clear salary after adding DeBrincat's 9M and Giroux's 6.5M.

We weren't interested in Marino's 5 year term so it wasn't that.

Yeah, that's the view that I hold. We had to clear salary so the other dominoes can fall. Otherwise I would have traded Brown at the deadline and we would get a better return.

Unfortunately dealing him now, created a small market of where he could go because of the salary cap status around the league.

 

[Ice-Tray]

So Katz in the news again for allegedly paying for underaged sex.

Certainly makes Eugene’s media blunders seem quaint in comparison.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

So Katz in the news again for allegedly paying for underaged sex.

Certainly makes Eugene’s media blunders seem quaint in comparison.

I just saw that as well. Brutal. The evil that men do knows no bounds it seems.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

So Katz in the news again for allegedly paying for underaged sex.

Certainly makes Eugene’s media blunders seem quaint in comparison.

Not sure this needs to be a comparison, nor do I think it's necessarily appropriate to downplay Melnyk's "blunders". Melnyk and Katz have both done some pretty reprehensible things, and I hope if the allegations hold true that Katz faces repercussions.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Not sure this needs to be a comparison, nor do I think it's necessarily appropriate to downplay Melnyk's "blunders". Melnyk and Katz have both done some pretty reprehensible things, and I hope if the allegations hold true that Katz faces repercussions.

Especially knowing we only ever got a small fraction of Melnyk's issues being documented according to the authors of the story. 10,000+ pages could have been written they claimed.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Especially knowing we only ever got a small fraction of Melnyk's issues being documented according to the authors of the story. 10,000+ pages could have been written they claimed.

LMAO… here we go again. EM was nowhere near what this story entails.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

LMAO… here we go again. EM was nowhere near what this story entails.

Lol. It wouldn't have been replied to if it weren't brought up randomly by another poster to try to make Melnyk look good by comparing him to someone that's been accused of such an egregious crime as buying sex from a minor.

Comparing transgressions to downplay another is stupid and I was essentially just agreeing with that from the comment I replied to. And not knowing the full story behind Eugene's applies as well, hence my comment.

 

[GCK]

Yeah, that's the view that I hold. We had to clear salary so the other dominoes can fall. Otherwise I would have traded Brown at the deadline and we would get a better return.

Unfortunately dealing him now, created a small market of where he could go because of the salary cap status around the league.

What ? He was dealt at the exact time teams have the most cap space.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Lol. It wouldn't have been replied to if it weren't brought up randomly by another poster to try to make Melnyk look good by comparing him to someone that's been accused of such an egregious crime as buying sex from a minor.

Comparing transgressions to downplay another is stupid and I was essentially just agreeing with that from the comment I replied to. And not knowing the full story behind Eugene's applies as well, hence my comment.

Dude, do you really think I was trying to make Eugene look better to you? Like I give a flying f*** about the man, or your opinion of him?

I was making a light point that as bad as things got here, there always seems to be a lower level…

The lengths the two of you are willing to go to keep the flames of hate alive for a dead man makes me laugh. I’ll reiterate that I don’t care to mitigate how you feel, nor was my post some kind of defence for Eugene.

Get a grip.

 

[Tuna99]

Daryl Katz story is crazy, the NBA forced the sale of the Clippers for much less, I wonder how the NHL ignores this and if they step in.

Would be interesting to see what the Oilers sold for if it came to that, small market franchise with the biggest name in hockey and a new arena with a storied history.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dude, do you really think I was trying to make Eugene look better to you? Like I give a flying f*** about the man, or your opinion of him?

I was making a light point that as bad as things got here, there always seems to be a lower level…

The lengths the two of you are willing to go to keep the flames of hate alive for a dead man makes me laugh. I’ll reiterate that I don’t care to mitigate how you feel, nor was my post some kind of defence for Eugene.

Get a grip.

I think it comes off that way a bit otherwise it seems irrelevant to include, but I honestly didnt really care until I got the same old bullshit from you know who.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I miss the days when we thought hockey was full of good people. Seeing all this seedy stuff come to light is really disheartening.

 

[JD1]

I think it comes off that way a bit otherwise it seems irrelevant to include, but I honestly didnt really care until I got the same old bullshit from you know who.

As far as I can tell from what I've read, the woman in question was 17 and the age of consent in new York is 17. If that is true, this is really just a case of Katz used a hooker.

The real ugly thing here is the mom helping her launder the money

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

As far as I can tell from what I've read, the woman in question was 17 and the age of consent in new York is 17. If that is true, this is really just a case of Katz used a hooker.

The real ugly thing here is the mom helping her launder the money

Crazy, I thought there were only a couple states under 18 at this point, but not something Ive looked in to. Not something I approve of either way but if that is the law I guess youre technically correct barring other potential circumstances.

And ya, humans suck, pretty deplorable behavior by the mom if she knowingly did that.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Artyom Minulin from Metallurg could potentially be a Zub 2.0