ATD 2010 Bios

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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I think the bios should be in the draft thread the way they use to be and as well in there own roster bio thread
I prefer that way too. But the other way isn't bad. (I used to mine the heavy detailed roster thread posts and put minimum rosters into divisions at the end of the thread - a lot of work!).

That said, the bio thread can be useful for research in future drafts, though the "search this forum" function is a more powerful research tool.

Your suggested TWO roster threads by posters is something we've never tried, frankly, and makes sense. The best way is to follow the example of those who link their bios to their minimalist roster post, like seventieslord has done for a while.

I think the ones who complained have left the atd draft
pappyline complained that his computer took too long loading the pages and asked for streamlined roster posts.
 

Leaf Lander

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I take great offense to that- and frankly, this does not really have anything to do with LeafsCentral.

Your method is not better, it's your opinion of better. We disagree with your opinion. Deal with it.



"Professional"? Why so serious?

seventies still posts his bios in the draft thread first off. And though it was looked down upon by a number of GMs last draft (due to confusion of when the player was picked with late bios coming in as well as cluttering the thread), posting bios on the draft thread was never outlawed. Anyone can post them there if they wish to.

As for your opinion of a roster bio thread, as seventies mentioned, posting all the bios like that in succession as you do takes forever to navigate, and I think it is quite cluttered. Longer bios make it highly unpractical. Really, linking bios to the roster thread achieves the same purpose (all the bios for a team in one place, convenient), but without any of the clutter and difficult navigation.

The ones who complained about what?

the current state isn't good enough we need to change again
 

seventieslord

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Mar 16, 2006
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I take great offense to that- and frankly, this does not really have anything to do with LeafsCentral.

As do I. Grow up, LL.

"Professional"? Why so serious?

And since when does LL get on a professional high horse?? This coming from a guy who writes bios himself, and quotes himself as a source.

As for your opinion of a roster bio thread, as seventies mentioned, posting all the bios like that in succession as you do takes forever to navigate, and I think it is quite cluttered.

Not to mention impossible. There is a character limit per post. How many seventieslord bios would it take to reach the max? Probably 2 or 3.

Longer bios make it highly unpractical. Really, linking bios to the roster thread achieves the same purpose (all the bios for a team in one place, convenient), but without any of the clutter and difficult navigation.

Agree, it is the best of both worlds and I do not see what the problem is.

Leaf Lander said:
the current state isn't good enough we need to change again

it really is difficult to take your comments seriously.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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im not worried about hurting your feelings
so grow up girls
and seventieslord bios are too long to fit the criteria thus you will have to link yours or conform !

Conform to WHAT? I already do it the way most people who produce bios, do it.

You said link or conform... I already link to the bios, so I guess we're all good here then, right?
 

seventieslord

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Mar 16, 2006
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Thanks for conforming :D

So then, this begs the question, if you're actually fine with the way I've been doing it (which is the way TDMM, LF, EB, DoMakc, and dreakmur, who, along with me, account for about 70% of the bios in this thread, have been doing it), then what was this whole "helter skelter" business about??
 

Leaf Lander

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to be honest I don't like the look of your bios

they have a lot of info and may take a lot of work to be typed into the thread but they are nothing special

the old roster threads/bio thread where gms worked hard on presenting the best of their teams are now gone but they were entertaining too read.
 

Leafs Forever

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Jul 14, 2009
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to be honest I don't like the look of your bios

they have a lot of info and may take a lot of work to be typed into the thread but they are nothing special

the old roster threads/bio thread where gms worked hard on presenting the best of their teams are now gone but they were entertaining too read.

Well, the "nothing special" notion likely makes one of you. seventies bios, to me, are the best in the draft, and the most informative. Their length is intimidating, but make great references for future drafts, as well as well advertising his own players.

You think those of us who link bios aren't working hard? That we aren't trying to present the best of our teams? These things aren't gone at all.

Considering no one is going to change how they make their bios (and it shouldn't be changed), and what you are proposing is merely a change in where bios are posted, the bios are going to read pretty much the exact same.

You are trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist, IMO.
 

seventieslord

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Mar 16, 2006
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to be honest I don't like the look of your bios

they have a lot of info and may take a lot of work to be typed into the thread but they are nothing special

:lol:

That might have some effect on me if you had demonstrated any ability as a researcher or bio writer in the past... or if my bios had not become a template that many others have followed.

Seriously. Do some actual research in these things, and then do some player bios that someone would take the time to publicly compliment like LF just did... (and that means quoting legitimate sources, not just yourself)... and only then should you come back and crticize me and other GMs who write bios like I do.
 

Leaf Lander

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You 2 lil guys sure love to attack lol

I have never made anything up in my bios and everything I write is based on something that I have read seen or
heard. you have shown no skill with your bios anyone can copy paste and bold what you want to use.

As an original gm I have developed my own style and I don't care to change what I enjoy doing just because some others decided to change the draft then quit it!

having the most info good bad and in some cases unneeded but also be the least attractive of all the bios and way less fun

I ca live with your uncreative less eye catching informative bios but try and do it in a neater tidier way
 

Leafs Forever

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Jul 14, 2009
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I've used some original writing myself in some of my own bios- mainly for just a biography and career summary, all based or made up of things I've read. (thought I got away from that in later bios). Really though, I don't see it as necessary, nor is it necessary to make a great bio.

Since my mind is filled with this topic at the moment, I'll use it to make a point- research essays. The ATD bios seventies uses are essentially the research portion of creating a research essay- and they far from take "no skill". Sure, anyone could do it, theoretically- but then, why doesn't everyone produce bios like seventies, especially because we use similar styles that he does? Because these research involved (like the research involved in a research essay,as I have learned) is HARD. Specifically, a lot of hard work is involved in getting all those quotes from all those sources (especially for seventies- have you seen how aboslutely massive his collection of hockey history books is? It's insane), sorting through the junk and the usable, recording all the information, creating any additional studies seventies sometimes features in his bios. And you have to read through it all, to carefull select what to bold to emphasize thing.

Researching for a bio, like an essay, does require a great amount of skill, hard work, time, and effort. One could take this a step further and do essay-style writing based on the research, but for bios, I want the facts or opinions from other people, not the opininos of the guy picking him, which adds an undoubtedly bias view on the player as well as somewhat subtracting from the bio's use as a reference and resource. Besides this, do many people really want to read an essay about a player in a bio? And besides that, the writing portion undoubtedly comes into full form in a much more effective way later on- the playoffs (and to a lesser extent, lineup assasinations)

In the playoffs, in the thread, or when we defend concerns brought up in lineup assasinations, are when we truly do the writing portion of the research essay- we say our opinions on players and develop them based upon the resources we've seen, often collected in the bios. The effectiveness of this really negates the need, in my mind, for unique writing in the bio, and one should not be critized for not featuring it. I prefer bios as reference works to players- the most effective use of the research part of the ATD research essay is in bios. I prefer all the opinions and writing be conducted in the debate going on in other threads, where in a competitive environment filled with debate and other views, the opinions and writings are at their finest, and far more effective than when used in bio format, IMO.

As for the rest:

As an original gm I have developed my own style and I don't care to change what I enjoy doing just because some others decided to change the draft then quit it!

That's fine. You can do bios as you are doing it now- no one cares. But, like you, we don't care to change our methods of bio making because one GM things our method of bio making is wrong and should be changed.

having the most info good bad and in some cases unneeded but also be the least attractive of all the bios and way less fun

Not sure if your opinion on most info is good or bad, but again, I like bios as reference sources- as such, more information is always good. I don't see seventies bios as any less attractive than yours. Define "fun" as an adjective in this context- if you're suggesting less fun to write, well, some would likely disagree, which is fine- to each his own in this case. If you're suggesting less fun to read, well bio reading is not exactly a trip to Canada's Wonderland no matter what bio we're talking about, and I don't read a bio for fun- I read it to learn, primarily.

I ca live with your uncreative less eye catching informative bios but try and do it in a neater tidier way

What's not neat about all the bios being available in a single post of normal size, and being able to easily get to whatever bio I want without going through many others to get to it?
 
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seventieslord

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Mar 16, 2006
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You 2 lil guys sure love to attack lol

I have never made anything up in my bios and everything I write is based on something that I have read seen or
heard.

You are still not a "source". In fact, if someone was to quote you saying one thing I would probably be better off believing the opposite.

you have shown no skill with your bios anyone can copy paste and bold what you want to use.

Well then surely you should have no problem proving that by doing it yourself.

So DO IT or mind your own business.

As an original gm I have developed my own style and I don't care to change what I enjoy doing just because some others decided to change the draft then quit it!

Great!

LF and I are telling you: "Do your bios however the **** you want" Extend us the same courtesy, please. You have no "clout" here as the supposed "old guard."

having the most info good bad and in some cases unneeded but also be the least attractive of all the bios and way less fun

I ca live with your uncreative less eye catching informative bios but try and do it in a neater tidier way

You know what, you're right. I do my bios just for you so it is only natural that I should start to do them in a way that pleases you. Your suggestions have been taken to heart. I'm a changed man.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
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I really don't get the complaints about this thread being messy.

It's not like this thread is meant to be read straight through. It's basically a dumping ground for long bios that can then be linked to our roster posts.

As for the bios themselves, I don't see the problem in throwing a lot of research into one post. It sure makes doing lineup assassinations easier. And it makes the playoffs a lot cleaner when I can avoid making bogus arguments based on misconceptions about players (since a detailed bio will have already cleared up any misconceptions).

I do think that a short 1-3 sentence summary at the top of a bio is a good idea. I tried to do this with my bios, but didn't always get to it.
 

jarek

Registered User
Aug 15, 2009
10,004
238
I really don't get the complaints about this thread being messy.

It's not like this thread is meant to be read straight through. It's basically a dumping ground for long bios that can then be linked to our roster posts.

As for the bios themselves, I don't see the problem in throwing a lot of research into one post. It sure makes doing lineup assassinations easier. And it makes the playoffs a lot cleaner when I can avoid making bogus arguments based on misconceptions about players (since a detailed bio will have already cleared up any misconceptions).

I do think that a short 1-3 sentence summary at the top of a bio is a good idea. I tried to do this with my bios, but didn't always get to it.

In theory this is a good idea, but I always find myself saying "prove it!" when someone tries that on me. :P
 

jarek

Registered User
Aug 15, 2009
10,004
238
Well, theoretically the proof is in the rest of the bio.

The "anyone can do a 70s bio" is silly. 70s has like 10000000 books on hockey to quote from!

Not to mention that I've personally helped him do bios as well. The amount of time spent on research would make English professors proud.
 

Leaf Lander

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I already agreed that I will allow you to do your bios the way you do them they are fine but not eye pleasing I also noted that I bet they are a lot of work to do and I commend you for that.

Unlike you i do not feel the need to belittle or to chest thump!

I myself want things tidier in this bio thread for the future
If i get my way great if not its no big deal

We changed for pappyline because they slowed his computer down and you may have to change once more because others wont be able to load each bio at a time.


This is my opinion and you got to listen :D
 

Leaf Lander

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You are still not a "source". In fact, if someone was to quote you saying one thing I would probably be better off believing the opposite.





Great!

LF and I are telling you: "Do your bios however the **** you want" Extend us the same courtesy, please. You have no "clout" here as the supposed "old guard."


You know what, you're right. I do my bios just for you so it is only natural that I should start to do them in a way that pleases you. Your suggestions have been taken to heart. I'm a changed man.


beyond this classless response show me one instance where i have lied about a selection

You wont be able to everything as everything I write/arrange is factual '


I do think im getting on your nerves :D

I love that!
 
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Leaf Lander

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:lol:

That might have some effect on me if you had demonstrated any ability as a researcher or bio writer in the past... or if my bios had not become a template that many others have followed.

Seriously. Do some actual research in these things, and then do some player bios that someone would take the time to publicly compliment like LF just did... (and that means quoting legitimate sources, not just yourself)... and only then should you come back and crticize me and other GMs who write bios like I do.

having your buddies form a website you guys come from is no big achievement. It makes you seem like a lesser light


I don't like your style its bulky and cluttered.

I appreciate your hard work

Good job little man!
 

Leaf Lander

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I never said you lie. You are, however, almost always wrong. :laugh:

prove it:yo:

Almost always wrong maybe alot of work in this case :D

I look forward to reading you 900 posts on where i was wrong in my bios Cause I have made a lot of draft choices over all the drafts.


That is it for me
3 am in nova scotia

Peace from the east!

Good night
 
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seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,202
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Regina, SK
prove it:yo:

Almost always wrong maybe alot of work in this case :D

I look forward to reading you 900 posts on where i was wrong in my bios Cause I have made a lot of draft choices over all the drafts.


That is it for me
3 am in nova scotia

Peace from the east!

Good night

I don't need to read bios to find examples of you being wrong. It's like finding hay in a haystack.

Besides, I asked you to prove something first. I don't you see you proving it.

Not here to belittle?

having your buddies form a website you guys come from is no big achievement. It makes you seem like a lesser light

Good job little man!

You 2 lil guys

so grow up girls

this change may be appropriate on the slacker leafs board but not here

you have shown no skill with your bios anyone can copy paste and bold what you want to use.

Not here to chest thump?

everything I write/arrange is factual

This is my opinion and you got to listen

As an original gm I have developed my own style and I don't care to change

As the elder statesman of the ATD really I should be listened too and my thoughts should be considered your commands

:dunno:
 

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