DoyleG
Reality sucks, Princesses!
The BCHL already knew that Wenatchee was leaving. They didn't want to be dragged into a it's spat with Hockey Canada.
Wenatchee was more transparent with the process than the AJHL rebels have been.
BCHL adding 5 Alberta teams
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The BCHL already knew that Wenatchee was leaving. They didn't want to be dragged into a it's spat with Hockey Canada.
Wenatchee was more transparent with the process than the AJHL rebels have been.
Bubbles
Die Hard for Bedard 2023
Wenatchee bought the WHL ICE franchise from Winnipeg. Than the moved the Franchise to Wenatchee and renamed it the Wild.
That was not what it sounded like initially. From the discussion here when the move was announced (and following posts detailed it more):
If it later came out that this was not the case then I did not read about that, but articles at the time also suggested the BCHL was surprised by the news and loss of the team.
Yes, it was bought by the same group that owned the BCHL Wenatchee team.
GKJ
Global Moderator
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I’d be interested to hear the whole story on this. Don’t have an opinion otherwise other than I don’t think it’s the right thing to suspend teams, for the season or otherwise, and penalize kids for decisions they’re not responsible for.
Bubbles
Die Hard for Bedard 2023
Wenatchee never made any sense as a BCHL team anyways. It was the only American franchise and the road trips there were brutal. During COVID they never even played.
The Wild will work because the WHL US division is strong and well supported by the locals. But Wenatchee is tiny compared to other places in Washington State.
DoyleG
Reality sucks, Princesses!
Future of AJHL in question after 5 teams join BCHL | Globalnews.ca
The BCHL confirms at least five Alberta Junior Hockey League (AJHL) teams will join the BC league next season.
globalnews.ca
Interviews indicated that none of the other AJHL teams knew of what the rebels were doing.
What makes this funny is that Sherwood Park and Blackfalds think they'll be playing each other tomorrow.
Isaac Nootin
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Dirtyf1ghter
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The future of North American hockey requires an adaptation of the European system.
Clubs which are structured from beginners to the senior section and players who move from one age category to another depending on the choice of the coaches without changing team.
Example :
Quebec Remparts has a senior, junior, midget, bantam, pee-wee and atom team.
The repulsive aspect of the CHL is that the player is obliged to play until the age of 20 in a junior league without choosing where to live. No wonder you prefer to play in the NCAA (hopeful league). Now BCHL will be a more attractive alternative.
And then a league like ECHL and even AHL is far too expensive compared to what it brings in. Develop consistent, more regionalized professional championships (WHL, OHL, LHMQ and 3 American pro leagues) to limit travel.
It would also make it possible to shift the NHL draft eligibility age to 20 years old. Spending 2 years in a senior WHL wouldn't have hurt Bedard. Regional leagues would capture interest as well.
Clubs which are structured from beginners to the senior section and players who move from one age category to another depending on the choice of the coaches without changing team.
Example :
Quebec Remparts has a senior, junior, midget, bantam, pee-wee and atom team.
The repulsive aspect of the CHL is that the player is obliged to play until the age of 20 in a junior league without choosing where to live. No wonder you prefer to play in the NCAA (hopeful league). Now BCHL will be a more attractive alternative.
And then a league like ECHL and even AHL is far too expensive compared to what it brings in. Develop consistent, more regionalized professional championships (WHL, OHL, LHMQ and 3 American pro leagues) to limit travel.
It would also make it possible to shift the NHL draft eligibility age to 20 years old. Spending 2 years in a senior WHL wouldn't have hurt Bedard. Regional leagues would capture interest as well.
I'm surprised how many people are attacking the AJHL for suspending the teams that are bolting. The league doesn't owe these teams anything after this stunt they pulled. They tried to keep it silent and then leave the league office high and dry, much like Wenatchee did.
Why should the league just roll over and accept it? How could the commissioner hand Brooks the league championship trophy at the end of the season, knowing they're leaving immediately after? Is Brooks supposed to go represent the AJHL at the Centennial Cup with this news out there? No chance.
I applaud the AJHL for putting their foot down and I hope they stick with it. Is it fair to the players on these five teams? No, it's not. But that's a consequence of their organizations colluding together and trying to screw the league over. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
I have never been a believer that this whole leaving Hockey Canada's umbrella thing was a good idea. When I worked in the BCHL I had heard for years that they wanted AJHL teams to join, but this was before leaving Hockey Canada was mentioned.
They want to recruit 16 year olds from the East. OK, cool. I don't think this league will ever bring in a truly elite-level talent, because then that kid can't go play at World Under-17 and Under-18 Hockey Canada events. Possibly World Juniors too once they move on to the NCAA? That I don't know for sure. Say what you want about the state of Hockey Canada, having worked with junior-aged players for the past eight years, those events matter to these kids.
This league might bring in mid-to-upper-tier talent from around the country, but I really don't think you'll ever see the Macklin Celebrini's of the world come play in this league. It will just push those kids to the USHL, or possibly the WHL.
Why should the league just roll over and accept it? How could the commissioner hand Brooks the league championship trophy at the end of the season, knowing they're leaving immediately after? Is Brooks supposed to go represent the AJHL at the Centennial Cup with this news out there? No chance.
I applaud the AJHL for putting their foot down and I hope they stick with it. Is it fair to the players on these five teams? No, it's not. But that's a consequence of their organizations colluding together and trying to screw the league over. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
I have never been a believer that this whole leaving Hockey Canada's umbrella thing was a good idea. When I worked in the BCHL I had heard for years that they wanted AJHL teams to join, but this was before leaving Hockey Canada was mentioned.
They want to recruit 16 year olds from the East. OK, cool. I don't think this league will ever bring in a truly elite-level talent, because then that kid can't go play at World Under-17 and Under-18 Hockey Canada events. Possibly World Juniors too once they move on to the NCAA? That I don't know for sure. Say what you want about the state of Hockey Canada, having worked with junior-aged players for the past eight years, those events matter to these kids.
This league might bring in mid-to-upper-tier talent from around the country, but I really don't think you'll ever see the Macklin Celebrini's of the world come play in this league. It will just push those kids to the USHL, or possibly the WHL.
Tilden Katz
Average PDOcast Listener
I feel like you are not putting value on NCAA education and sports that families and these kids will, compared to playing in the CHL.
Second, you mention that kids recruited for the BCHL can't play internationally for Canada at the U17, U18 and potentially WJ level, in a way that seems to brush under the rug that that is Hockey Canada's own exclusionary policy. They've continued to point the gun at their own foot on that one.
Just Linda
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- Feb 24, 2018
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The reason why the AJHL are the villians here is because they are punishing the teams for something that hasn't occured yet. They are stripping 100+ kids of eligibility for something that's been announced but hasn't occured. It's a very heavy handed response and one that's going to be challenged in court.
Its actually a fairly easy answer to sponsors. Why would city councils give a shit.
Its a fairly simple concept. The new BCHL is a significantly stronger league.
The only question I have is why couldn’t this wait until after the season? AJHL showing its pettiness by shafting all the players on the defecting teams like it was their decision to leave.
You realize the CHL pays for every year of school you play in it right? You think going to Denver or North Dakota is any better then the University of Alberta or the University of Saskatchewan? (or UofT, Waterloo etc..) (Waterloo is MIT level.. U of T is top 10 in North America)
There's no difference in an employers eyes, aside from being personally biased.
There was nothing wrong with Jr A, the BCHL has a few top level kids, but it's not like the top 5 teams in the BCHL,AJHL, SJHL, OJHL etc.. couldn't beat each other any night of the week.
It's just the next level NSWC, BWC thing etc..
BCHL is just moving 16/17 year olds across the country now basically.
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They literally just got rid of this at minor hockey levels, now it's all "city wide" or "province wide" to equalize talent from closer local levels. Weekend road trips like a Midget AAA league or Junior league.
LOL comes full circle I guess.
Now the BCHL wants to drag 16 and 17 year olds across the country.
Junior A 16/17 year olds play Midget AAA in alberta/sask/man. Which is why it is substantially stronger then in BC. Then those kids go play Junior A or WHL.
So if the kid is "that good" and not playing in the WHL. really there playing 1 year of Junior A before going to NCAA. which is maybe 4-5 kids a year.
When you look at the last 20 years of Macs/Midget AAA national championships participants and winners it's not statistically possible for the BCHL to be any better then AJHL/SJHL. because that's where all the players come from....
Rich parents myth IMO.
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Isaac Nootin
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The top 5 teams in the BC/AJ would smack the top 5 in the OJ/SJ etc.
The SJHL has nearly has 50% apperances in the final from 99-2018 in the centennial cup
and nearly the same in gold/silver/bronze MAAA level...
Are you being serious? Sask/Alberta are the best MAAA, you think all those BCHL players are magically better one year later?
BCHL being better overall is a myth and statistically not true.
top 15 CJHL has 3 SJ and 3 Alberta currently today. Flin Flon being the best in the country.
Aside from the 4-5 top end players in the BCHL, there's no difference between any of them. I wouldn't even say the BCHL is the top out of the three, because it's not over 25 years of top level results.
Isaac Nootin
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That means absolutely nothing. Flin Flon is not the best team in the country.
The past few years was Brooks just toying with the competition at the Centennial Cup.
Men vs. Boys
Bubbles
Die Hard for Bedard 2023
You are really comparing apples to oranges here, and I am a BCHL fan.
CHL only pays for schooling and is dependent on how many years served in the league.
Meanwhile, the kids in the BCHL get a full ride scholarship (housing, tuition) to a school in the US. You have no idea the different culture of college life in the States compared to Canada. College hockey is huge and well supported, while CIS hockey could barely draw 100 to a game. Not to mention kids want to test themselves against college level hockey.
Tilden Katz
Average PDOcast Listener
Well it certainly does in terms of hockey competition? If I'm a reasonably good junior player that knows the NHL is a possible but long term goal, why would I want the WHL followed by the University of Alberta? I want Brooks + Michigan. Absurd comparison. uSports and NCAA are not remotely comparable.
Such a disingenuous argument. A short tournament does not mean teams in other Junior A leagues compare to a team like Brooks or the general quality of talent and competition in a full season of BCHL hockey. The tiniest of sparks burns this straw house.
Isaac Nootin
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Look at the lineup Brooks ices each night. Between dressed players and scratches, there's 21 D1 scholarship players. That's probably more than the entire SJHL this year.
You would be shocked at how far being able to put “NCAA Division 1 athlete” on your resume will take you. Nobody knows what CIS hockey is. And not to nitpick but there are no Canadian schools or universities on any top 10 list.
MeHateHe
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- Dec 24, 2006
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Sure, and the point the poster made was that in the main, there is little difference between most Junior A teams. And then there are the elite teams. Brooks would toy with most of the current 16 teams in the BCHL, with the exception of the top two or three.
That's the overall point of this entire exercise. There are a handful of top teams in the BCHL who are head and shoulders above the rest, and they're the ones primarily wanting to compete with the USHL (and to a lesser extent, the WHL) for players. Clubs like Merritt are not in the same ballpark and, except for a couple of outlier years, have never been.
So this move serves clubs Penticton and Okotoks well and leaves some of the other clubs in those two leagues the dust. It's why I surmised that when everything shakes out, there will be some BCHL clubs wanting to head back to the Hockey Canada model.
To the point some have been making about this being the comeuppance that Hockey Canada deserves:
1) For all its faults, Hockey Canada is the national sports organization recognized by the international community. Weakening it internally also weakens it on the world stage. It's not good for hockey in the country. In a worst case scenario, the IIHF will not be able to easily determine who speaks for hockey in this country.
2) Hockey Canada is responsible for development of the game in all regions, and not just for the cream of the crop. The BCHL's desire to be seen as best among equals in Junior A harms hockey in other provinces, at a minimum, because if a player is going to make a choice between Summerside and Penticton, Summerside is going to lose out every time. (Sorry Summerside, you're lovely, but...)
3) The restriction on 16-year-olds moving provinces was to protect the development of minors, which is a thing that Hockey Canada has to do. If 60 CHL clubs can have one or two 16-year-olds, that's one thing, and you can assume those 16-year-olds are at a high enough level that a pro career is a reasonable expectation. If 150 Junior A clubs start doing the same, then you've got a lot of middling hockey players taking a flyer on a hockey career that is so unlikely, and risking their emotional and educational development in the process.
4) Bringing in more Europeans at a time when Canadian players need development time absolutely runs contrary to Hockey Canada's mission. It's bad enough that they're allowing European goalies in the CHL again, when Canada's goaltending has never been shakier. But allowing Junior A to do the same, at any position, is just bad for our game. We need to develop our own.
I think Hockey Canada needed to bend, no question, when the BCHL came up with their proposal. I still hate letting 16-year-olds move willy-nilly, and I still hate bringing in Europeans to Canada's development model, but there should have been more recognition that the level of play and professionalism among *some* of the BCHL teams needs to be recognized as being set apart from *most* of their peers across Canada.
This is messy now and only going to get messier. More shoes to drop.
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MeHateHe
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Okay, number 11 (among North American schools).
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landy92mack29
Registered User
The top BCHL/AJHL teams would destroy Flin Flon or any of the other SJHL teams. Right now the SJHL has 7 NCAA D1 commits in the league while the BCHL is around 200 and the AJHL is around 100....It's like if a AHL team played a ECHL team. You are correct that the Sask AAA and Alberta AAA leagues are very strong but most prairie kids don't give a crap about school and want to just play hockey which the CHL is by far the best non pro league to develop in. BC kids more tend to lean school from the Vancouver area plus the few top Sask kids who do go college route normally leave to go to the BCHL/AJHL like Nolan Stevenson, Ryan Zaremba, Parker Lalonde, Ty Mason, etc. If you look at SJHL rosters most only have 5-7 sask kids on them rest are out of province kids
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