Player Discussion Darnell Nurse is a #1 dman
- Thread starter PeteEakins
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Bryanbryoil
Pray For Ukraine
- Sep 13, 2004
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The next thread is going to be titled "Darnell Nurse is a $9.25 million #5 Defenseman"
KeithIsActuallyBad
You thrust your pelvis, huh!
It’s legitimately hilarious how badly Holland f***ed up the Nurse contract.
Ekholm completely blows him out of the water.
KeithIsActuallyBad
You thrust your pelvis, huh!
It isn't even necessarily the dollar figure either, although that sucks too. It's the fact that he front loaded it making a buyout impossible.
If you're paying over market rate for a guy and everyone knows it, you need some way to get out. That could be no NMC, making it buyout friendly, etc. Holland just stepped up and gave him all three - overpay, buy out proof, NMC.
If the buyout looked similar to Dubois, for example, I would just say "f*** it, this blows but it opens up enough room to replace him with someone adequate." Instead we would have to eat $9M of buyout penalties for three years.
Oilhawks
Oden's Ride Over Nordland
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I'm okay with "Darnell Nurse is an Ice Hockey Defenseman" too, if his level of play continues
StoveTopStauffer
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KeithIsActuallyBad
You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Holland just has zero clue about the salary cap or negotiation. The chances of this contract blowing up in his face was always high.
The sad thing is that the arrival of the Bouchard/Ekholm pairing should've taken some of the pressure off Nurse.... but his pairing still finds itself way at the bottom game after game.
Bryanbryoil
Pray For Ukraine
- Sep 13, 2004
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Bryanbryoil
Pray For Ukraine
- Sep 13, 2004
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Ekholm and Bouchard are on another level. Kulak and Desharnais are playing better than Nurse and Ceci are. That is a major problem.
Reasonable Oil Fan
Registered User
Look on the bright side
We have him locked in for 5 more years before we have to give him a raise/extension
We have him locked in for 5 more years before we have to give him a raise/extension
McDNicks17
Moderator
The more interesting with/without to me is Nurse and RNH.
Nurse without RNH: 81 minutes, 50.49% xGF
Nurse with RNH: 53 minutes, 18.46% xGF lol
If Nurse+Ceci were the root cause, you'd think they'd have terrible numbers with everyone. Maybe it has something to do with them primarily playing with the worst playoff performer to ever wear an Oilers jersey.
bobbythebrain
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2016
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About even imo. Yesterday Ceci had a giveaway behind the net that popped out front and Van almost scored. The reason he had the giveaway was cuz Nurse fed him the puck under double coverage
Nurse regularly puts Ceci and the wingers in terrible positions.
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
- Mar 3, 2004
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Or maybe Nurse just sucks.
Seriously though...at a certain point in time we need to stop making excuses for a player that will never provide value for his cap hit. He is just so inconsistent with his decision making and it seems to be everyones fault but his.
With that money this defence could really be improved.
McDNicks17
Moderator
People shouldn't bring up numbers if they don't want to talk about the context to those numbers haha.Or maybe Nurse just sucks.
Seriously though...at a certain point in time we need to stop making excuses for a player that will never provide value for his cap hit.
With that money this defence could really be improved.
It seems kind of silly point to Nurse+Ceci's with/without when there's players on the team with worse with/without numbers.
That's the problem- I don't think we have a pairing that makes sense for those two. By my eye, the single biggest issue is that both Nurse and Ceci are average to below average passers, and they struggle mightily against teams that take away their time and space. I feel like every time I watch that pairing they're icing the puck, or launching a pass 5+ feet off its mark. That's why they had equally terrible numbers against Colorado and Vegas.
What can we do about it? Ekholm and Bouchard are excelling (4-1 and 3-1 at 5 on 5, respectively) so I wouldn't touch that pairing. Would Nurse-Desharnais and Kulak-Ceci be better? Maybe a bit, but he reality is our defensive depth gets exposed against teams with 2 or 3 good lines. I would probably try to limit their minutes, and maybe try to get that pairing out there with someone like McLeod who is solid defensively and really effective at transitioning the puck.
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
- Mar 3, 2004
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Of course.
Its also silly to omit visul indicators that a player isnt playing at a level high enough to justify his place on the team.
I would also suggest to you that there are players on the Oilers that seem to compensate for Nurse better than other players. There could be a lot of variables for that and getting caught up in those variables could well be a waste of time.
The bottom line...Nurse is an expensive liability to try to accomodate.
McDNicks17
Moderator
I think it's pretty simple.
Nurse sucks at defending. Put him with a forward who is getting out-chanced 9-1, it's going to result in him defending a lot more.
Accommodations are going above and beyond. Expecting to play with forwards with a pulse is more of a baseline expectation than an accommodation.
McDNicks17
Moderator
The obvious "tale of two teams", as that graph puts it, is McDavid. I think it's fair to say it's obvious who impacts Oilers games most.
Oilers with McDavid: 62.92 xGF%
Oilers without McDavid: 41.60 xGF%
Is it really surprising that a guy who has played 88% of his minutes away from McDavid has numbers closer to the without stat?
Oilers with McDavid: 62.92 xGF%
Oilers without McDavid: 41.60 xGF%
Is it really surprising that a guy who has played 88% of his minutes away from McDavid has numbers closer to the without stat?
They have the worst with/without for whoever they play with. Red Herring.
Nurse has become a master of looking good on the stats and terrible on ice. He can get scored on while doing the starfish but still finish the game with a net positive.
Just like Skinner, next season people will forget how terrible of a playoffs he had and there's nothing you can do to convince those people otherwise
Just like Skinner, next season people will forget how terrible of a playoffs he had and there's nothing you can do to convince those people otherwise
KeithIsActuallyBad
You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Well their numbers are all encompassing and they're routinely getting throttled. And it's not like this is an isolated incident. In our last two playoff losses the two players were dreadfully in the minus as they are again this series.
The first pairing is excelling and the third pairing is doing a decent job, but this pairing just doesn't work at either end of the ice. RNH isn't amazing by any means but when the numbers are that bad across all situations then the fact of the matter is that the pairing just sucks.
McDNicks17
Moderator
I don't disagree the pairing sucks. I'm just saying playing with everyone's favorite ghost is definitely going to magnify that.
Like that graph is pointing at a 53% drop in the team's xGA/60 without Nurse/Ceci meanwhile their xGA/60 drops over 150% without RNH haha.
