Salary Cap: Detroit Red Wings - Capology Discussion

[BinCookin]

For the most part, I have found that Ken Holland has done a very good job of not overpaying players that we have signed.

I was taking a look at the CAP #'s recently and looking at our roster. It seems as though our Forwards are moderately underpaid, and our defense is a little overpaid considering the players and each cap hit.

Using these numbers and extrapolations. Which players do you think we risk losing as a result of cap problems? Can we keep all our forwards that can fit on the roster? Can we keep the Defense with this price structure?

Seems to me we need to cut salary in D. And probably just wait for our forwards to get paid more fairly in later contracts for their "raise".

Maybe this is just me noticing that our forwards are younger than our D core. And thus the Cap #'s seem to work this way.

Also how much room does our current structure allow for additional players to be added by UFA over the next few years?

http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/detroit-red-wings
http://war-on-ice.com/cap/DET.html

Click to read more...

 

[BinCookin]

Only Bad contracts I find are all on D.

Ericsson (too much for too long)
Quincey (too much)
Smith (too much)
Kindl (was fair, poor performance by player results in Bad Contract)

 

[rx7dryver]

I see the $1,182,500 last year for performance bonus.

Was this Cleary's bonus for showing up every day?

 

[BinCookin]

I see the $1,182,500 last year for performance bonus.

Was this Cleary's bonus for showing up every day?

Cleary got 1,000,000 for playing in 10+ games.
Jurco earned 157 500 perf bonus (dont know why)

That is all I can find.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Only Bad contracts I find are all on D.

Ericsson (too much for too long)
Quincey (too much)
Smith (too much)
Kindl (was fair, poor performance by player results in Bad Contract)

If Jimmy Howard isn't the Wings starting goalie, that's a bad contract.

 

[PullHard]

Ericsson's and Howard's contracts are the ones that are really hurting our cap right now, as Howard is looking more like a 1B/ back up as time moves forward and Ericsson isn't growing into a legit #2/3 (he seemed like one once, but he had a very rough last ~1.5 seasons) like he is getting paid to be.

At least Quincey's is up after this season and Kindl's is smaller and done in 2 seasons. You can work around those. Ericsson and Howard get in the way, though.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

Howard out up elite numbers until he got hurt. He played better than the amount of money he received. Howard is not the problem. Especially while mrazek is cheap.

Howard should play out his contract here doing a platoon. When it's up he should then be given the option to return as the back up to mrazek.



Ericsson only makes 1m too much so its not that bad.

Quincy got 1 year too long. Kindls contract is bad.

Z, Franzen and kronwall got several years too long. Hopefully. Franzen stays on ltir and doesn't retire.


I fear helm will be given a terrible contract. But Now that Weiss and too too are gone we don't have bad contracts really.

 

[Flowah]

But Now that Weiss and too too are gone we don't have bad contracts really.

I agree none of our contracts are "terrible," but it's a little bit death by a thousand cuts and a little bit reality of the salary cap era. A few players making 1M too much is not an insignificant amount of wasted cap. And you can't spend 500k or 1M to overcrowd your roster with players that are fringe "depth" guys if their role is sitting in the pressbox or filling in for injuries, especially when you have Larkins, AA's, Callahans, sitting in the AHL making less.

Moreover in a salary cap world, you must have some steals somewhere. Either by virtue of an ELC, or because some players are RFA and got signed a little under market rate, or because you rewarded a player early and got him for a steal later. If you don't do that, you will never ever be a contending team. Seriously. Try to assemble a contending team without making use of steals like that. You won't get very far. That is Chicago's model. Pay your core what it's worth, surround them with vastly cheaper talent from your farm system who haven't yet earned a contract but you think can handle the job. When they get too expensive, set them free and replace from within. That is the only way to stay competitive in the cap era.

Howard probably being paid 500k-1M too much, even if he's a 1B. He needs to rebound to form to "re-earn" his contract. Smith and Kindl are redundant. We don't need both yet we do, which means over 2.5M just being wasted. Q is whatever, probably like Howard, 500k-1M too much. He's not amazing, he's soso and he's being covered for a bit by DK. Ericsson again, 500k-1M too much. He's playing above his paygrade but he'd be fine in the bottom4. I'd rather him than Quincey that's for sure. I don't think any of our forwards are overpaid right now even if I'd rather not have a couple of them.

 

[Electric Eric]

Moreover in a salary cap world, you must have some steals somewhere.

I would say Tatars contract right now is a steal. Kronwall as well. That's about it

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

What is the league average for percentage of cap devoted to goaltending (both goalies)?

 

[Larkinarounddacorner]

I would say Tatars contract right now is a steal. Kronwall as well. That's about it

Z's contract is very nice if he stays healthy and Abby, Helm, Sheahan and DK's contracts are also fantastic albeit only for the next year

 

[Larkinarounddacorner]

another thing to note is that Big E's salary is the same as his cap hit so if he retires we won't get hit with a recapture penalty like we would with Franzen, Z, Pav or Kronwall

 

[RedWingsfan55]

I would say Tatars contract right now is a steal. Kronwall as well. That's about it

A lot are steals sheahan, Abby(for last year), Tatar, DK, mrazek.


Pav z kronwall Howard Smith are all market value.


Again the one I'm most upset about was Quincy getting a second year. But Holland learned. He gave Richards 1 year instead of something foolish like 2 or 3.



For the record. I'm a Holland basher when it comes to traded and free agency. But his cap management has been pretty good. Again we don't have any terrible deals. None lasting past this season besides Ericsson making 1m too much(get him off the top line and with a full off season of workouts he will be fine though).

 

[BinCookin]

I would say Tatars contract right now is a steal. Kronwall as well. That's about it

I think there are more than just that.

Kronwall could easily make 6-6.5 Mil on a fair contract. -Steal
Tatar signed a relatively cheap deal out of his ELC. - Currently Steal
Nyquist this past year ELC. - Was a Steal (New contract TBD)
Helm - 2.1 Mil
Abdelkader - 1.8 Mil
Dekeyser - 2.1 Mil
All good deals.

Abdelkader had a great season, stats similar to -Soderberg - 4.75M, Lehtera - 4.7M [centers]
and (Brouwer - 3.66M, Stafford - 4.35M, Cammaleri - 5M, Marchand - 4.5M) [wingers]
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?fetchKey=20152ALLSASALL&viewName=summary&sort=points&gp=1&pg=5

So Id say Abdelkader was a massive steal this year.

Helm at 33 pts, stats similar to - Hanson - 2.5M, Santorelli - UFA was 1.5M, Sutter - 3.3M, Fehr -UFA was 1.6M. Probably on a pretty good deal Lets see what Fehr and Santorelli sign for...
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?fetchKey=20152ALLSASALL&viewName=summary&sort=points&gp=1&pg=8

 

[BinCookin]

Pav z kronwall Howard Smith are all market value.

No way Kronwall is Market Value.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?sea...ry=&status=&viewName=summary&sort=points&ord=

Kronwall comparables:

Byfuglien, Weber, Keith, Green, OEL, Hamilton, Brodie

for offensive production.

Their salaries are: 5.2M; 7.8M; 5.5M; 6.25M (now 6M with Us); 5.5M, 5.75M; 4.65M.

Kronwall 4.75M.

Basically only Brodie is on as good a deal.

 

[Mijatovic]

Qunicey was probably one of our top 3 defenders last year. Kinda hard to rag on that for $4m. Not exactly good but not bad either. He had around half Kronwalls points with ZERO PP time.

 

[Henkka]

Cleary got 1,000,000 for playing in 10+ games.
Jurco earned 157 500 perf bonus (dont know why)

That is all I can find.

Only 740k will transfer to this years cap.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

No way Kronwall is Market Value.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?sea...ry=&status=&viewName=summary&sort=points&ord=

Kronwall comparables:

Byfuglien, Weber, Keith, Green, OEL, Hamilton, Brodie

for offensive production.

Their salaries are: 5.2M; 7.8M; 5.5M; 6.25M (now 6M with Us); 5.5M, 5.75M; 4.65M.

Kronwall 4.75M.

Basically only Brodie is on as good a deal.

And kronwall isn't as good as them defensively....

 

[SirloinUB]

What is the league average for percentage of cap devoted to goaltending (both goalies)?

Not sure the average, but Dallas has about 10 million spent on goalies. Puts things in perspective when people complain about our 6 Million dollar tandem, doesnt it?

 

[SirloinUB]

No way Kronwall is Market Value.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?sea...ry=&status=&viewName=summary&sort=points&ord=

Kronwall comparables:

Byfuglien, Weber, Keith, Green, OEL, Hamilton, Brodie

for offensive production.

Their salaries are: 5.2M; 7.8M; 5.5M; 6.25M (now 6M with Us); 5.5M, 5.75M; 4.65M.

Kronwall 4.75M.

Basically only Brodie is on as good a deal.

Hahah so with a $71,000,000 cap, $100,000 is the difference between a good deal and a bad deal? Not sure I agree with that, especially when you factor in the respective track records. Don't get me wrong, I like Brodie, but it seems you are grasping at straws, if $100,000 is the difference between a good deal and a bad deal

 

[StormSurge9]

I didn't write down exact numbers, but by quickly glancing at other teams, it seems our goalie tandem ranks right about middle of the pack in terms of combined cap hits.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Were those other teams paying their backup goalie seven times more than their starting goalie?

You might be able to stomach it for one more season before Mrazek is due for a raise, but the idea that the current goalie situation in Detroit is healthy or "normal" simply isn't true.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

And kronwall isn't as good as them defensively....

Green is better than Kronwall defensively? Hmmmm.... we shall see about that....

 

[StormSurge9]

Were those other teams paying their backup goalie seven times more than their starting goalie?

You might be able to stomach it for one more season before Mrazek is due for a raise, but the idea that the current goalie situation in Detroit is healthy or "normal" simply isn't true.

That would depend on if you consider Howard a backup or not. I personally believe Howard will play well enough to earn back the starters role.

 

[BinCookin]

Hahah so with a $71,000,000 cap, $100,000 is the difference between a good deal and a bad deal? Not sure I agree with that, especially when you factor in the respective track records. Don't get me wrong, I like Brodie, but it seems you are grasping at straws, if $100,000 is the difference between a good deal and a bad deal

actually u completely went over the point.

I said Brodie has just as good a deal. I.E. 100K means nothing. "They are both on good deals".

Point is of all the players listed, Kronwall is on a good deal for us.

Not splitting hairs at all. I am making a global statement. If you think Kronwalls contract is market value... that was my rebuttal. I am not comparing Brodie Kronwall.

Im comparing Kronwall to the league of players who scored 42-46 pts. (Lastyear)