Player Discussion Filip Hronek - Pt. 2

[MS]

Noah Hanifin signed for $7.3
Vince Dunn signed for $7.3
Gustav Forsling signed for $5.75
Damon Severson signed for $6.2

All of those players were UFAs/pending UFAs as opposed to Hronek who is an RFA.

Like, there is literally no planet where he's getting $8 million, or anywhere close really. He's not getting $8 million here and he's not getting $8 million anywhere else. It's an absurd number and an absurd discussion and I have no idea why it keeps getting brought up to tear him down.

 

[timw33]

Noah Hanifin signed for $7.3
Vince Dunn signed for $7.3
Gustav Forsling signed for $5.75
Damon Severson signed for $6.2

All of those players were UFAs/pending UFAs as opposed to Hronek who is an RFA.

Like, there is literally no planet where he's getting $8 million, or anywhere close really. He's not getting $8 million here and he's not getting $8 million anywhere else. It's an absurd number and an absurd discussion and I have no idea why it keeps getting brought up to tear him down.

This is what I constantly go back to, there are no favourable comparable contracts for him in that $8MM range and it's straight up not happening. So much of the chatter is from Dhaliwhal who just parrots exactly what the agents want out there.

The rumour of Canucks offering around 6.25MM seems like they had the right range in mind and weren't totally fooled from racking up a bunch of assists while the team was going on an insane bender.

I just keep watching these playoff games and going "this is not a player I would like to pay over 6MM"

 

[Blue and Green]

Noah Hanifin signed for $7.3
Vince Dunn signed for $7.3
Gustav Forsling signed for $5.75
Damon Severson signed for $6.2

All of those players were UFAs/pending UFAs as opposed to Hronek who is an RFA.

Like, there is literally no planet where he's getting $8 million, or anywhere close really. He's not getting $8 million here and he's not getting $8 million anywhere else. It's an absurd number and an absurd discussion and I have no idea why it keeps getting brought up to tear him down.

Hronek's not getting $8M but the UFA/RFA thing makes only a small difference on a long-term deal when it's the player's final RFA year. Realistically, Hronek's around $7M.

 

[MS]

This is what I constantly go back to, there are no favourable comparable contracts for him in that $8MM range and it's straight up not happening. So much of the chatter is from Dhaliwhal who just parrots exactly what the agents want out there.

The rumour of Canucks offering around 6.25MM seems like they had the right range in mind and weren't totally fooled from racking up a bunch of assists while the team was going on an insane bender.

I just keep watching these playoff games and going "this is not a player I would like to pay over 6MM"

He hasn't played well the last two months and that's been my instinctual reaction to his play as well but we know he's playing hurt (injured wrist rumoured) and I also don't want to rashly over-react/over-correct on a good player because he had a bad run while hurt which is a lesson I've learned a few times in the past.

Hronek's not getting $8M but the UFA/RFA thing makes only a small difference on a long-term deal when it's the player's final RFA year. Realistically, Hronek's around $7M.

It's probably a few hundred k/year over the contract. But it still does matter.

 

[Regal]

the whole point of hronek with hughes, which i always thought was a waste anyway, is to be a puck moving safety valve so if they double team hughes we have this other guy to move the puck at a high level and keep the forecheck honest

if he can’t do this, what good is he?

when tocchet talked after the game about carrying the puck with pressure on your back instead of just auto-flipping it back to them in the neutral zone (and he didn’t say it but also often failing to even clear) i was like, hronek that is your literal job on this team.

two observations going forwards:

1. being that it looks like we’re trying to keep the top pair’s ES minutes down anyway, is putting cole in that spot to be a safe guy for hughes an idea that could work? yes cole has struggled this series but what if he never ever does anything but ian cole things? doesn’t find himself roaming in offensive situations, only makes safe chip outs and easy outlets, and blocks shots and puts himself in smarter places than hronek to relieve the pressure on hughes?

then hronek can do the same things he is already doing with zadorov. i don’t think we lose or gain.

hronek was good in game one, after being mostly not good in round one, but that was mostly on the defensive end. he still wasn’t holding up his end of the bargain as a puck mover.

2. if he doesn’t show that he can be a useful piece moving forward, which i don’t think he can, the good news is he’s worth more now than when we got him. someone will see the 50 pts and big plus/minus numbers and RHS and we can end up ahead of where we started. although we def also need to sign tanev or someone else who can play with hughes.

I think he was doing that for the first half of the year though and while a lot of his points have been dismissed due to the team’s hot start, I think he was a big part of that. So I wonder if it’s a situation where he just lacks consistency or is it just an injury that we’re now hearing about? It’s tough because we’re not in the know on these things, but I think first half Hronek very much has a role on this team, but second half Hronek is replaceable.

 

[Blue and Green]

It's probably a few hundred k/year over the contract. But it still does matter.

Last year of RFA = ~peak age, arbitration-eligible player and if he's good the team would probably like to keep him. If anything, I suspect that the difference is a little less than what you think.

Hronek probably sees himself on the Hanifin-Dunn tier as a player, plus he's a right-hand shot. And, the cap's going up. As I understand it, the $8M number wasn't pulled out of thin air by HF posters. There's typically some highball-lowball in negotiations but not always, so we'll see what happens.

 

[MS]

Last year of RFA = ~peak age, arbitration-eligible player and if he's good the team would probably like to keep him. If anything, I suspect that the difference is a little less than what you think.

Hronek probably sees himself on the Hanifin-Dunn tier as a player, plus he's a right-hand shot. And, the cap's going up. As I understand it, the $8M number wasn't pulled out of thin air by HF posters. There's typically some highball-lowball in negotiations but not always, so we'll see what happens.

Walsh seems like he's putting that number out through Dhaliwal.

But it's obvious nonsense. Multiple better comparables have signed for less, closer to UFA. He's a $7 million player, and that might be generous.

 

[credulous]

the real problem with hronek's contract situation is that if he feels like he's worth 8m and doesn't want to budge he can just go to arb and try again next year as a ufa. the canucks have basically zero leverage

 

[M2Beezy]

Few points on the Hronek situation

1 he is 26, and seems to have improved every season including this past season despite his struggles the past couple months

2 many Detroit fans criticisms of him was inconsistent play for long stretches, while at the start of seasons he was dynamic top pairing quality. I think this past season he played well into the second half of the season then his play dipped. I am speculating but feel we should be patient with him, lock him up long term, and do what we can to develop him to play more consistently in the second half of the season

3 our expectations of him now are based on how good he looked in the first half of the season. He is now playing like a mid pair dman, our expectations should be as such

4 if we can lock him up 7 or 8 years Id look to go as high as $7 million per season. If he continues improving every season like he is, thatll be a steal of a contract sooner then later

5 I agree hes looked like ass many times these playoffs but he has also is usually pretty good positionally and clearing the front of the net. His outlet passes have suffered tho which sucks

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I think he was doing that for the first half of the year though and while a lot of his points have been dismissed due to the team’s hot start, I think he was a big part of that. So I wonder if it’s a situation where he just lacks consistency or is it just an injury that we’re now hearing about? It’s tough because we’re not in the know on these things, but I think first half Hronek very much has a role on this team, but second half Hronek is replaceable.

agree, there were definitely times when he was doing his job. but even then i felt like it was a waste of resources. why does hughes need a second puck mover by his side? why isn’t hronek holding down his own pair?

imo i want to know two things about him. one is, did he get found out? ie, did the league figure out how to limit him from easy quick hughes-assisted outlets? two is, can he reliably be the player i think he has the potential to be and has shown flashes of, which is a sami salo level guy who, if not made of glass, can anchor a second pair on both sides of the puck and provide a look on the PP?

 

[Cancuks]

As his agent even showed in photos, Hronek wears down as the season progresses. He's probably playing 20 pounds less than when he started the season and doesn't have the stamina anymore. This is terrible for teams who want to go on long runs.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

We were never going to trade him prior to the deadline after the season he was having. This is the same logic with Kuzmenko last year and Boeser now. Teams simply don't trade players in a position of need when they're working out. It doesn't happen.

As for his value. That really all depends. RHD is a hot commodity that teams will overpay for. One playoff series won't impact too much. Especially since he has no control where we trade him.

Trading bad players for good players sounds like a nice idea but its not really how things work out 99,5% of the time.

You need to sell high on assets.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Trading bad players for good players sounds like a nice idea but its not really how things work out 99,5% of the time.

You need to sell high on assets.

Hronek isn't bad though. So it's a moot point. He just isn't worth what he reportedly wants. Especially not in our position.

Selling high is equally nice in theory but it's also rare unless you already know the player isn't going to stay. Trying to move off Hronek by the deadline would have looked ridiculous if he turned things around.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Hronek isn't bad though. So it's a moot point. He just isn't worth what he reportedly wants. Especially not in our position.

Selling high is equally nice in theory but it's also rare unless you already know the player isn't going to stay. Trying to move off Hronek by the deadline would have looked ridiculous if he turned things around.

I was answering to you referencing Kuzmenko and Boeser that nobody should sell them when their value is high.

I strongly disagree. I think selling on players at the right time is a key skill for GM to have.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Noah Hanifin signed for $7.3
Vince Dunn signed for $7.3
Gustav Forsling signed for $5.75
Damon Severson signed for $6.2


All of those players were UFAs/pending UFAs as opposed to Hronek who is an RFA.


Like, there is literally no planet where he's getting $8 million, or anywhere close really. He's not getting $8 million here and he's not getting $8 million anywhere else. It's an absurd number and an absurd discussion and I have no idea why it keeps getting brought up to tear him down.

To be fair, if you’re going to use these comparables you have to also factor in the much lower tax rates for Florida and Nevada which amount to about $1M difference annually for Hanifin and Forsling.

Not sure where you’re getting that Dunn was an impending UFA from, he was an RFA with arb rights, very similar situation to Hronek. Personally, I think his contract is the ideal for Hronek right down to the 4 year term.

 

[HairyKneel]

As his agent even showed in photos, Hronek wears down as the season progresses. He's probably playing 20 pounds less than when he started the season and doesn't have the stamina anymore. This is terrible for teams who want to go on long runs.

Probably even 60 pounds. McWard probably hasn’t lost an ounce

 

[Diamonddog01]

I remember when a year ago I suggested that Hronek and his agent could be seeking $8M+ I was told “I know nothing about hockey” and that if he was really asking for that much then we’d be thrilled to give it to him as it would mean he was a legitimate top pairing defenseman.

You and me both. I do think the pendulum has swung a bit too far in the other direction (and I suspect he’s injured) but giving Hronek 8M is ludicrous. If he is amenable to a reasonable AAV I’m fine with keeping him but I’m equally fine with moving him to create the space to re-sign some of our UFAs.

 

[vancityluongo]

really not sure what a lot of you are seeing - hronek continues to be the complementary piece on one of the top three pairings in the entire league. yes, the big driver of that is his partner who is going to win the norris and has had stretches where he should be up for the hart. but does anyone really think hughes would be in that position with luke schenn or tyler myers as his partner? playing that role alone is worth about $5m, and given the upside he showed at the start of the year, i'd be pretty damn happy if we could settle mid to long term in the mid-6's to low 7's.

if we can somehow get rasmus andersson or artem zub in a trade, or dylan demelo, matt roy, or brandon montour in free agency, sure, move hronek to make it happen, either from an asset perspective or from a cap allocation perspective. i don't think any of those options are going to be canucks by september though.

and again, 34 year old chris tanev is closer in value to last year's schenn than he is to 25 year old hronek.

 

[BWJM]

He's looked like a number 4. His contract talks should start with that.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

He hasn't played well the last two months and that's been my instinctual reaction to his play as well but we know he's playing hurt (injured wrist rumoured) and I also don't want to rashly over-react/over-correct on a good player because he had a bad run while hurt which is a lesson I've learned a few times in the past.

Its also possible you might be over reacting to the small sample size of a good run with Hughes early in the season, while Hughes was playing MVP level hockey.

 

[F A N]

Noah Hanifin signed for $7.3
Vince Dunn signed for $7.3
Gustav Forsling signed for $5.75
Damon Severson signed for $6.2

All of those players were UFAs/pending UFAs as opposed to Hronek who is an RFA.

Like, there is literally no planet where he's getting $8 million, or anywhere close really. He's not getting $8 million here and he's not getting $8 million anywhere else. It's an absurd number and an absurd discussion and I have no idea why it keeps getting brought up to tear him down.

I don't disagree with anything you said here except for the hyperbole. I won't say that $8M is an absurd discussion if that's what the player is looking for and refuses to move off it. There's plenty of reports from reputable sources to suggest that that might be the what Hronek is looking for/demanded.

I do agree that the recent signings and decline in play (he finished with 5 goals 48 points instead of the 60 points he was on pace for) support the conclusion that he's not a $8M defenseman. But sometimes players/agents take unreasonable positions and refuse to move off of it and I don't see why it's absurd for us to discuss it.

He's already rejected an 8 year $6.5M AAV deal so that's the starting point. But he doesn't have the offensive or defensive pedigree to get anywhere near $8M. If he was the RHD equivalent of Hanifin he might get a premium but he's not. If Hronek is injured, I hope he sees how an injury plague year can tank his value. Pesce, for example, probably isn't getting that UFA pay day he was looking for.

 

[lawrence]

8 million we think is his just agent givig himself some negotiation room to work with.

we have Devon Toews at 7.2, Hanifan 7.3 his comparables are actually Mckenzie Weegar who is 6.2 and Josh Morrisey who is also 6.2 million cap hit.

He should be willing to sign for around 6.5, 7 million tops. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he is someone Quin Hughes wants to play with and Quin Hughes had his best season with someone as skilled Hronek as his main partner. I recall early on in the season when by December, half the time Hronek had more ice time than Quinn

now of course I think his struggles has to do with his height and quins height, and the difficulty of other teams zooming in and focusing on shutting down the Hughes line. but I think its good to have him in our top 4. He kinda reminds me of Jrki Lumme.

tonight myers had more ice time, and i think in this type of scenario, Mcdavid might have a harder time going against Myers than hronek.

however if a reversed situation, if we were down by 1, I think Hronek is someone we desperatley relay need out there, so Hronek, Zadarov, Myers, they all play different roles and I think we should try to sign ALL OF them instead of oh we keep this guy and not that guy. etc.

 

[Grub]

Not sold on Hronek if he wants 7 Million plus. Rather re-sign Zaddy, but then again a top 4 has been hard to get, I bet if we do let Hronek walk we regret it. If we go deep in the playoffs you resign the team that got you there, don't do the old Jim Benning BS