Former Ducks - (2023-24 Season Edition )

[Ducks in a row]

Lindholm answers back | NHL.com

TOR@BOS R1, Gm7: Lindholm responds with goal to even game in 3rd

www.nhl.com

Hampus Lindholm with his 1st ever playoff goal with the Bruins was a big one that helped them beat the Maple Leafs in game 7

 

[Quack Shot]

Lindholm answers back | NHL.com

TOR@BOS R1, Gm7: Lindholm responds with goal to even game in 3rd

www.nhl.com

Hampus Lindholm with his 1st ever playoff goal with the Bruins was a big one that helped them beat the Maple Leafs in game 7

He also made the sweet pool shot assist off the corner for the OT goal.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

He also made the sweet pool shot assist off the corner for the OT goal.

Those Swedes with planned long bank passes that led to goals. First it was a Silf bank of the back boards for a Rico collect and score. Now it's a Lindholm bank of the corner boards for a Pasta collect and score.

"Oh how Swede it is to be banked by you!"

 

[12ozPapa]

I know I’m in the minority but I wish we would have kept him and Manson

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I know I’m in the minority but I wish we would have kept him and Manson

Even keeping just Lindholm would have been a great keep for our defense. But we can reflect that Verbeek truly wanted to tank for the 2023 draft. We could have made the jump into the playoffs if Verbeek built off the huge jump in 2021-22. Instead, Verbeek wanted a bigger set of darts to work from and trusted his own path. I think we were all, including the owners, were catfished.

From when Verbeek was drafted, Detroit News:

"This team doesn't need to be rebuilt; they're in the middle of their rebuild, so this is a great opportunity to take this team forward and turn them into a contender," Verbeek said during his introductory press conference. "You don't have to come in there and look to take a long time. There's good players in the NHL, good players in the minors and there are players that have been drafted. There's a lot coming to support the growth of this team. That's truly what I'm excited about."​

 

[Deuce22]

I love Lindholm but resigning him wasn’t making Ducks a contender. Tanking and getting Carlsson was the correct path.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I love Lindholm but resigning him wasn’t making Ducks a contender. Tanking and getting Carlsson was the correct path.

It all depends on your GM and how good your GM is at identifying talent to add to your team.

2020-21: Finished with 2nd worst record.

Nov 21: GM Murray resigns. Ducks 3rd in Pacific.
Feb 2022, All-Star Break: GM Verbeek hired. Ducks 3rd in Pacific.
TDL 2022: Ducks in 6th place, but only 4 points out from 3rd in Pacific.

Remember, Verbeek admitted he blew the team up. Since blowing up the team, Verbeek has had the Ducks finish in the bottom-3 two years in a row. We're still a team full of unknowns and hypocritical standards. Carlsson is probably a few years away or more before he can start carrying the team... if he can carry the team. It's all still potential for most of our youths.

 

[Deuce22]

It all depends on your GM and how good your GM is at identifying talent to add to your team.

2020-21: Finished with 2nd worst record.

Nov 21: GM Murray resigns. Ducks 3rd in Pacific.
Feb 2022, All-Star Break: GM Verbeek hired. Ducks 3rd in Pacific.
TDL 2022: Ducks in 6th place, but only 4 points out from 3rd in Pacific.

Remember, Verbeek admitted he blew the team up. Since blowing up the team, Verbeek has had the Ducks finish in the bottom-3 two years in a row. We're still a team full of unknowns and hypocritical standards. Carlsson probably a few years away or more before he can start carrying the team... if he can carry the team. It's all still potential for most of our youths.

Verbeek decided that the talent on hand wasn’t that of a contending team. I agreed then and still do. To resign the FA’s at the time would have kept Ducks on the course Murray had charted. Fringe playoff team, no chance for a cup. The price for acquiring the young talent we have was to tear it down.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Even keeping just Lindholm would have been a great keep for our defense. But we can reflect that Verbeek truly wanted to tank for the 2023 draft. We could have made the jump into the playoffs if Verbeek built off the huge jump in 2021-22. Instead, Verbeek wanted a bigger set of darts to work from and trusted his own path. I think we were all, including the owners, were catfished.

From when Verbeek was drafted, Detroit News:

"This team doesn't need to be rebuilt; they're in the middle of their rebuild, so this is a great opportunity to take this team forward and turn them into a contender," Verbeek said during his introductory press conference. "You don't have to come in there and look to take a long time. There's good players in the NHL, good players in the minors and there are players that have been drafted. There's a lot coming to support the growth of this team. That's truly what I'm excited about."​

While none of us can know for sure, I would be really surprised if decisions such as taking a rebuilding and tanking path are done without ownership consent, actually I am pretty sure it was with ownership consent, highly unlikely there was any deception here.

 

[DavidBL]

Verbeek decided that the talent on hand wasn’t that of a contending team. I agreed then and still do. To resign the FA’s at the time would have kept Ducks on the course Murray had charted. Fringe playoff team, no chance for a cup. The price for acquiring the young talent we have was to tear it down.

I mean, we got Z, Drysdale and McTavish and most of the season that landed us Minty without bombing the roster. The tear down really only has landed us Carlsson and what ever we get this year.

 

[JAHV]

I mean, we got Z, Drysdale and McTavish and most of the season that landed us Minty without bombing the roster. The tear down really only has landed us Carlsson and what ever we get this year.

And that roster was good enough for a bottom 10 finish. So without Carlsson and whomever we get this year, maybe the development from those kids gets us to sneak into a wild card spot some years. We'd be a poor man's Minnesota.

 

[DavidBL]

And that roster was good enough for a bottom 10 finish. So without Carlsson and whomever we get this year, maybe the development from those kids gets us to sneak into a wild card spot some years. We'd be a poor man's Minnesota.

I disagree, I don't think Carlsson is the difference between teams like Min and Tampa.

 

[Deuce22]

I mean, we got Z, Drysdale and McTavish and most of the season that landed us Minty without bombing the roster. The tear down really only has landed us Carlsson and what ever we get this year.

"Bombing the roster" also meant not locking Manson, Rakell, and Lindholm into long term deals. Hampus is the only one I'd want on the roster today.

 

[DavidBL]

"Bombing the roster" also meant not locking Manson, Rakell, and Lindholm into long term deals. Hampus is the only one I'd want on the roster today.

I wouldn't disagree, just saying that we were able to get the majority of the core without selling everything off. Lindholm doesn't make us a playoff team last year but eh, maybe we would still have gotten a good prospect and we'd be closer to being a good team now.

 

[Deuce22]

I wouldn't disagree, just saying that we were able to get the majority of the core without selling everything off. Lindholm doesn't make us a playoff team last year but eh, maybe we would still have gotten a good prospect and we'd be closer to being a good team now.

Fair enough, although I think Carlsson and this year's top pick are going to be cornerstones. I was just willing to be bad for a couple of years with the possibility of being great someday. As opposed to being mid every year.

 

[DavidBL]

Fair enough, although I think Carlsson and this year's top pick are going to be cornerstones. I was just willing to be bad for a couple of years with the possibility of being great someday. As opposed to being mid every year.

It's an accepted strategy. I tend to think you don't HAVE to do it that way but thats my opinion. People like to point to LA Messing up their rebuild but imo what messed it up is that 2 of their highest picks have not really developed the way they wanted. Byfield is finally starting to show glimpses but not really given the hype he had and Turcotte is likely a bust at this stage. You put those guys on the trajectories of Carlsson and Gauthier or even Z people probably aren't complaining. In short it still comes down to how well you draft.

 

[MMC]

It's truly quite sad how some refuse to let the 2022 trade deadline go

While none of us can know for sure, I would be really surprised if decisions such as taking a rebuilding and tanking path are done without ownership consent, actually I am pretty sure it was with ownership consent, highly unlikely there was any deception here.

For the impatient, it is much easier to pretend that things aren't going to plan than it is to accept the PV doesn't have the urgency they have.

I disagree, I don't think Carlsson is the difference between teams like Min and Tampa.

Considering Minnesota's biggest problem for ages has been their inability to land a true franchise center, he very well could be

imo what messed it up is that 2 of their highest picks have not really developed the way they wanted.

Have you thought about WHY this isn't happening? A big reason for it (and one echoed by their entire fanbase) is that the team is prioritizing winning over development

 

[DavidBL]

It's truly quite sad how some refuse to let the 2022 trade deadline go


For the impatient, it is much easier to pretend that things aren't going to plan than it is to accept the PV doesn't have the urgency they have.


Considering Minnesota's biggest problem for ages has been their inability to land a true franchise center, he very well could be


Have you thought about WHY this isn't happening? A big reason for it (and one echoed by their entire fanbase) is that the team is prioritizing winning over development

One player doesn't make a team a stanely cup contender from a bubble playoff team.

What exactly has LA done to hurt either players development that we haven't also done with our players? It's a cop out rather than suggest the players they drafted weren't as good as they thought it must be orgs fault they didn't develop.

 

[MMC]

One player doesn't make a team a stanely cup contender from a bubble playoff team.

What exactly has LA done to hurt either players development that we haven't also done with our players? It's a cop out rather than suggest the players they drafted weren't as good as they thought it must be orgs fault they didn't develop.

A franchise center can absolutely be the difference between a low ceiling playoff team and a legit contender. I really have no idea how you could argue that's not the case.

And no it's not a "cop-out", go to the Kings board or any thread about one of the Kings star young prospects and you'll see the exact same sentiment being echoed. For the last few years they have prioritized winning and giving vets top spots in the lineup and are doing very little in the way of putting their young players in a position to succeed.

 

[DavidBL]

A franchise center can absolutely be the difference between a low ceiling playoff team and a legit contender. I really have no idea how you could argue that's not the case.

And no it's not a "cop-out", go to the Kings board or any thread about one of the Kings star young prospects and you'll see the exact same sentiment being echoed. For the last few years they have prioritized winning and giving vets top spots in the lineup and are doing very little in the way of putting their young players in a position to succeed.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I don't care about the Kings or the trade deadline 2 years ago enough to keep arguing about it.

 

[JAHV]

I disagree, I don't think Carlsson is the difference between teams like Min and Tampa.

I do. Minnesota has one franchise player in Kaprizov. I think Carlsson's potential is higher than Kaprizov and then you add the good young players alongside him, plus whomever the Ducks get this year - you're a lot closer to Tampa than Minnesota at that point.

 

[Kalv]

I mean, we got Z, Drysdale and McTavish and most of the season that landed us Minty without bombing the roster. The tear down really only has landed us Carlsson and what ever we get this year.

Without landing someone, we also had to open a spot on the left side and Fowler was prob very untradable.

 

[DavidBL]

I do. Minnesota has one franchise player in Kaprizov. I think Carlsson's potential is higher than Kaprizov and then you add the good young players alongside him, plus whomever the Ducks get this year - you're a lot closer to Tampa than Minnesota at that point.

My point was that we didn't need to tear down for all those players around him and we already had 2 top center prospects before we got Carlsson.

Without landing someone, we also had to open a spot on the left side and Fowler was prob very untradable.

We also didn't expect anyone but Lacombe to really push for a roster spot this year. We all talk about not rushing prospects to the NHL, are you telling me you would have been upset if Minty and Zell spent more time in the AHL? We're also purely speculating that Fowler is untradable, I really don't believe that is true. Guys are traded all the time with NTCs.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Verbeek decided that the talent on hand wasn’t that of a contending team. I agreed then and still do. To resign the FA’s at the time would have kept Ducks on the course Murray had charted. Fringe playoff team, no chance for a cup. The price for acquiring the young talent we have was to tear it down.

I guess that's your spin. You have no idea what Murray could have done, but we have facts that he's brought the Ducks to the WCF twice in his recent years. Probably knows a thing or two of how to get there.

Verbeek didn't want the hassle of having many moving parts with players, cap, or be scruinized early in his GM career if he couldn't make it to the playoffs as he wanted many darts all along. It was all bullshit he fed the owners and fans. Do I have to quote Verbeek again?

From the Detroit News after Verbeek was hired:

"This team doesn't need to be rebuilt; they're in the middle of their rebuild, so this is a great opportunity to take this team forward and turn them into a contender," Verbeek said during his introductory press conference. "You don't have to come in there and look to take a long time. There's good players in the NHL, good players in the minors and there are players that have been drafted. There's a lot coming to support the growth of this team. That's truly what I'm excited about."​

Verbeek inherited the team at All-Star break and it was 3rd in the Pacific. Verbeek knew Manson was on the IR during All-star break and didn't lift a finger to help out the club as Manson missed 12 out of 14 games under Verbeek. At the TDL, the Ducks were 6th in the Pacific, but only 4 points away from 3rd in the Pacific. This was year 3 of the Murray rebuild. They were still in the process of developing talent depth.

Verbeek's 2022 summer acquisitions bombed. He blamed Eakins for finishing dead last with 58 points. Oddly enough, Verbeek's 2023 summer acquisitions, including rookies, vastly improved the roster, but to only finish with one point more. Apparently, it wasn't the coaching and Verbeek is happy with the finish. That's a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde flip-flop of responses for abysmal seasons.

Anyhow, it wasn't as if the Ducks were suffering in talent pool within their system. The Hockey News 2021 Future Watch has them ranked 4th in the league - and that was before the 2021 draft with Mac, Zell, Pasta, and Hinds. For the next season's Future Watch, THN ranked the Ducks 1st overall.

I guess using the young talent stance isn't great. Verbeek just wanted even more young talent b/c it fits his philosophy of having several darts. But this also goes back to his The Detroit News quote, did Verbeek not believe in the assessment he made or was that just straight bullshit from the start? B/c the way you're talking, Vebeek was bullshitting the owners from the beginning.

This will be Verbeek's year 3 of his rebuild, but he's amassed the talents from the Murray rebuild, which will be a total of six rebuild drafts. Do you think Verbeek can reach the same heights as the 2021-22 season Ducks prior to Verbeek becoming it's GM? I think it's doubtful.

When Verbeek reset the rebuild, I said I'd give him five years before I can give a full judgment. Right now, he's full of hypocrisies, but the collection of talent looks good - it better be when you finish in the bottom-3 in consecutive seasons; three top-10 draft picks.

 

[MMC]

You have no idea what Murray could have done

None of us do, including you, which is why these discussions are so tiresome. Impossible to be productive when discussing pure hypotheticals that are both irrelevant and purely speculatory. At least this time it's taking place in the appropriate thread I guess