Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Sens of Anarchy]

Twitter is a dive bar of comments. Everyone's got a hot take for ad their little comments here and there. It's rare to find decent commentary or educated thoughts on there. Only so much can be said in a tweet. A forum is a much more appropriate place to give an expert well thought opinion.

This year's draft and UFA have a decent glass of defenseman. There's No Superstar and thank God cuz that's not what we need. However if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is you could retool your defense if you don't mind paying. I would look to move up in the draft and grab that giant and hope he turns into the next Chara. Then sign to UFA defenseman. Maybe just maybe we can unload some of our garbage.

A better place perhaps but the the drivel filter isn't improved.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

One of the many good righties available. Not the style they need in my opinion but if they move on from both Chabot and Chychrun I think he'd be a welcome addition. Assuming they beef up the left side with some size as well.

Players I'd like to see them target that are UFA's.

Tanev, Montour, Pesce, Roy, Dillon, Edmundson, Walker, Brossoit, Dakota Joshua, Demelo, Martinook, Myers, Zadorov, Zucker, Hronek, Debrusk, Okposo,
Duclair, Carrier, Lafferty

All players that could help this team.

Did you see zadorov is allegedly looking for 6x6 lol.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Curious about the idea about trading Joseph. It could be they want to create cap space to fill a need with another player they would sign.

But, then they have to find a replacement for the slot vacated by Joseph and pay that player. If the replacement has a $1 m cap hit, then the Senators would save $1.95 m. Hopefully it would be a forward who can PK, and I’d think they will miss Joseph’s speed. He is a player that can get behind opponents' defenders.

I guess the question is do they have a player in mind that can PK and do a decent job of filling Joseph’s slot that would have a minimal cap hit?

 

[aragorn]

Curious as to the idea about trading Joseph. It could be they want to create cap space to fill a need with another player they would sign.

But, then who fills the slot that Joseph has vacated? Hopefully it would be a forward who can PK, and presumably they wouldn’t have much cap space to work with given the cap spent on other acquisitions. The Senators will miss Joseph’s speed. He is a player that can get behind opponents' defenders.

Joseph is a lot like Hagelin all speed & nothing else, they need to increase their scoring in the bottom six & at the same time cut down on the goals against. They need to improve the bottom six & there are better options out there at a cheaper cost that are tougher. I would argue that I expect that Ostapchuk will someday be better than Joseph & is the kind of player they need in their lineup in the bottom six. He will bring speed, shot blocking, hitting, fighting, toughness, some goal scoring & has the ability to disrupt the other team while being a pain in the ass to play against & feared. It's almost the same arguement as with Brannstrom, he is a better D right now, but he is not what the Sens need, Kleven is what the Sens need on D given he has a lot of the same atributes as Ostapchuk, but will need a little time to develop further at the NHL level.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Joseph is a lot like Hagelin all speed & nothing else, they need to increase their scoring in the bottom six & at the same time cut down on the goals against. They need to improve the bottom six & there are better options out there at a cheaper cost that are tougher. I would argue that I expect that Ostapchuk will someday be better than Joseph & is the kind of player they need in their lineup in the bottom six. He will bring speed, shot blocking, hitting, fighting, toughness, some goal scoring & has the ability to disrupt the other team while being a pain in the ass to play against & feared. It's almost the same arguement as with Brannstrom, he is a better D right now, but he is not what the Sens need, Kleven is what the Sens need on D given he has a lot of the same atributes as Ostapchuk, but will need a little time to develop further at the NHL level.

Well an inexpensive ELC/prospect player was what I had in mind when I created my thread.

With regards to the main point, they are not going to create a whole lot of additional cap space when all said is done by moving Joseph because they will still have to pay another player to fill the vacant slot, and hopefully that player would be a good PKer. So, it seems like they won’t save much money and may or may not have an equivalent player to fill his role at least in the short term.

A lot of the more recent roster ideas I’ve seen lately depend on prospects making the jump and doing relatively well in their rookie year. That’s not impossible of course, but a bit of a gamble assuming they do get promoted from Belleville.

The Senators brass are hopefully going to focus on more impactful moves and will need to maneuver the cap to achieve that goal.

 

[Blotto71]

The production drop off is crazy.

+12 prior to the injury in December, -16 after returning. Not a great indicator of anything, I know. However, he was saddled with Kubalick for most of the season and I don't think that helps anyone's stats.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Chabot & Norris (16M) for Karlsson & Rakell (15M).

Negative value change of scenery type trade. The assumption being there is no market to get assets for Chabot and Norris, and they think Norris may never return to form.

Chabot seems like the type of player Dubas would be high on. Chabot for Karlsson is a lateral move on the ice, but a huge move marketing wise. Rakell is not good but Norris wasn't good this season and that was before having another shoulder injury.

Rakell and Karlsson both have less term. So from a cap management perspective, it's a positive for Ottawa.

It also completely shakes up the core that Dorion built, and makes things uncomfortable for the guys remaining, which will either result in a better and more competitive group, or the team failing to adapt and it confirming that they need to retool the core.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Zegras and Gudas + pick(s) and or prospect for Jakob and Norris ? Would shake things up for sure.

 

[Golden_Jet]

A nice two for one deal for Steve The Greek Staios, get at 'er! Tanev (warrior), Pesce and Necas are upgrades over any of the veteran defencemen this team has signed in the last...decade? Last key UFA D signing was Gonchar two decades ago..holy f***amole!

Key veteran signings on D would allow someone like Tyler Kleven to learn effectively on the job. Looks like he will be given every opportunity to make the team.

I thought Zub was a good D free agent signing.

 

[armani]

I thought Zub was a good D free agent signing.

Yeah a home run UFA signing, can’t believe I forgot that, age bro age pawwwwd.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Looks like he went to sleep in the second half of the year. He has one of the lower shooting percentages amongst our forwards.

Wasn’t he playing a top 6 roll more first half, and hardly any in Second half,
but was a drop off.
Did the drop off coincide with coming off injury.?

 

[aragorn]

Well an inexpensive ELC/prospect player was what I had in mind when I created my thread.

With regards to the main point, they are not going to create a whole lot of additional cap space when all said is done by moving Joseph because they will still have to pay another player to fill the vacant slot, and hopefully that player would be a good PKer. So, it seems like they won’t save much money and may or may not have an equivalent player to fill his role at least in the short term.

A lot of the more recent roster ideas I’ve seen lately depend on prospects making the jump and doing relatively well in their rookie year. That’s not impossible of course, but a bit of a gamble assuming they do get promoted from Belleville.

The Senators brass are hopefully going to focus on more impactful moves and will need to maneuver the cap to achieve that goal.

IMO Ostapchuk is that player, he is almost as fast as Joseph, but he hits, block shots, wins board battles, can play centre or LW, takes draws & is bigger & tougher & will drop the gloves.

The y would gain about $3 mil which could either go towards a raise for Pinto or towards a better UFA pt producer. While we would like them to make a number of moves it's quite possible that they will only be able to make a couple of moves & still be subject to the salary cap.

For example, I doubt they move both Chabot & Chychrun as some are proposing, it's much more likely that it will be Chychrun only & maybe Brannstrom on defence & Forsdberg in net that could be moved out. They likely don't re-sign Kubalik & maybe Katchouk & together they add up to about $10 mil to work with. Adding Kleven & Ostapchuk will cost less than $2 mil leaving about $8 mil plus to make one or two impactful moves for a top 4 RD.

 

[Ice-Tray]

IMO Ostapchuk is that player, he is almost as fast as Joseph, but he hits, block shots, wins board battles, can play centre or LW, takes draws & is bigger & tougher & will drop the gloves.

The y would gain about $3 mil which could either go towards a raise for Pinto or towards a better UFA pt producer. While we would like them to make a number of moves it's quite possible that they will only be able to make a couple of moves & still be subject to the salary cap.

For example, I doubt they move both Chabot & Chychrun as some are proposing, it's much more likely that it will be Chychrun only & maybe Brannstrom on defence & Forsdberg in net that could be moved out. They likely don't re-sign Kubalik & maybe Katchouk & together they add up to about $10 mil to work with. Adding Kleven & Ostapchuk will cost less than $2 mil leaving about $8 mil plus to make one or two impactful moves for a top 4 RD.

Like a few others around here I have been a supporter of Ostapchuk and Kleven from the start based on draft day write ups about how they play and who they are.

I am really stoked that both players look to be panning out and are on solid trajectories to possibly make the team this fall.

I am also intrigued by the big kid playing D in the OHL. Andonovski 6’2” 200lbs at 19 and sounds like he could be a player. Should be in Belleville this years so we can see how he does.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

IMO Ostapchuk is that player, he is almost as fast as Joseph, but he hits, block shots, wins board battles, can play centre or LW, takes draws & is bigger & tougher & will drop the gloves.

The y would gain about $3 mil which could either go towards a raise for Pinto or towards a better UFA pt producer. While we would like them to make a number of moves it's quite possible that they will only be able to make a couple of moves & still be subject to the salary cap.

For example, I doubt they move both Chabot & Chychrun as some are proposing, it's much more likely that it will be Chychrun only & maybe Brannstrom on defence & Forsdberg in net that could be moved out. They likely don't re-sign Kubalik & maybe Katchouk & together they add up to about $10 mil to work with. Adding Kleven & Ostapchuk will cost less than $2 mil leaving about $8 mil plus to make one or two impactful moves for a top 4 RD.

They won’t gain $3 m.

Joseph $2.95 m - Ostapchuk $825 k = $2.1 m.

For reference or the sake of comparison to what that amount of cap gets from a player perspective, that’s what they pay Brannstrom (100k difference).

 

[Daffy]

Zegras and Gudas + pick(s) and or prospect for Jakob and Norris ? Would shake things up for sure.

Zegras would be a terrible idea.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Can’t be trading chabot AND chychrun before having a replacement.maybe end of next year chabot for schenn + a pick


We save like 1.75 on the cap and get a solid middle six guy.

They get a good LD.

Dickinson and Buium can step in for us 25-26

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

I don't think Joseph is easily replaceable at $2.95 in Ottawa. Unless there's an overpayment of some sort, trying to get an equivalent player in the offseason isn't going to be any cheaper.

 

[Big Muddy]

Chabot & Norris (16M) for Karlsson & Rakell (15M).

Negative value change of scenery type trade. The assumption being there is no market to get assets for Chabot and Norris, and they think Norris may never return to form.

Chabot seems like the type of player Dubas would be high on. Chabot for Karlsson is a lateral move on the ice, but a huge move marketing wise. Rakell is not good but Norris wasn't good this season and that was before having another shoulder injury.

Rakell and Karlsson both have less term. So from a cap management perspective, it's a positive for Ottawa.

It also completely shakes up the core that Dorion built, and makes things uncomfortable for the guys remaining, which will either result in a better and more competitive group, or the team failing to adapt and it confirming that they need to retool the core.

I’d guess teams will stay away from Norris until he has a full, healthy season under his belt.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I’d guess teams will stay away from Norris until he has a full, healthy season under his belt.

I don't disagree, but we're talking about a swap of four bad contracts in a change of scenery move for both sides.

Getting out of the Karlsson contract is huge for Pittsburgh because he has a NMC, and no team in the league other than Ottawa is likely taking on that contract. His contract is also buyout proof.

So for Pittsburgh, it's a lateral move with more short-term flexibility to build their team around Crosby/Malkin/Letang for the next 2-3 years at the expense of the bad contracts they take back having more term, or Norris if his return doesn't work out, eventually LTIRetired on the books during a period of time when they will be rebuilding anyways.

The other thing is that Chabot would be a more dynamic asset for them than Karlsson because he doesn't have the signing bonuses or NMC. If Dubas does like Chabot, he may look at it like with a change of scenery, Chabot will get back to being a top pairing defenseman. Crosby maybe has 2-3 more years. Chabot only has limited trade protectionj. If everything works out, Chabot is a lateral move for them on Karlsson and they can flip him (maybe with retention) for assets to kickstart a rebuild in 3 years.

So the gist of the trade for Pittsburgh is that they gain a lot of flexibility with a Chabot for Karlsson swap at the expense of having to swap Norris for Rakell to help Ottawa long-term cap wise on paper.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I don't disagree, but we're talking about a swap of four bad contracts in a change of scenery move for both sides.

Getting out of the Karlsson contract is huge for Pittsburgh because he has a NMC, and no team in the league other than Ottawa is likely taking on that contract. His contract is also buyout proof.

So for Pittsburgh, it's a lateral move with more short-term flexibility to build their team around Crosby/Malkin/Letang for the next 2-3 years at the expense of the bad contracts they take back having more term, or Norris if his return doesn't work out, eventually LTIRetired on the books during a period of time when they will be rebuilding anyways.

The other thing is that Chabot would be a more dynamic asset for them than Karlsson because he doesn't have the signing bonuses or NMC. If Dubas does like Chabot, he may look at it like with a change of scenery, Chabot will get back to being a top pairing defenseman. Crosby maybe has 2-3 more years. Chabot only has limited trade protectionj. If everything works out, Chabot is a lateral move for them on Karlsson and they can flip him (maybe with retention) for assets to kickstart a rebuild in 3 years.

So the gist of the trade for Pittsburgh is that they gain a lot of flexibility with a Chabot for Karlsson swap at the expense of having to swap Norris for Rakell to help Ottawa long-term cap wise on paper.

But if the new coach is all about effort and accountability, how does that work for adding EK to the team?

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

But if the new coach is all about effort and accountability, how does that work for adding EK to the team?

Like I said, lateral move with Thomas Chabot. So the dynamic is not the same as giving up picks+prospects from EK, which would be ridiculous.

I'm not saying they are the exact same player, but the roles and pros and cons like inconsistent effort are pretty close to a lateral move.

 

[Agent Zub]

But if the new coach is all about effort and accountability, how does that work for adding EK to the team?

Ah yes the guy who was responsible for more Senators success than the entire current core put together in worse circumstances, and who also jeopardized his career in an effort to get this city a cup lacks.... effort and accountability.

 

[Senovision]

Wasn’t he playing a top 6 roll more first half, and hardly any in Second half,
but was a drop off.
Did the drop off coincide with coming off injury.?

Joseph (upper body) has been activated from the Injured Reserve and is a game-time decision Tuesday.
Joesph has been out for the Senators' previous 10 games but was activated from the Injured Reserve Tuesday and will be a game-time decision vs. Calgary. Ottawa moved Rourke Chariter to the LTIR in a corresponding move. Joseph is having his best career season to date with 19 points (6G/13A) in 25 games played alongside his +12 plus/minus and 27 PIMs.
Source:
Cap Friendly Jan 9, 2024 @ 16:31 EST

Mathieu Joseph(Right Wing)|Ottawa Senators
Injury

Joseph (lower body) is expected to be activated off the Injured Reserve Sunday.

Source:
Bruce Garrioch Jan 7, 2024 @ 11:23 EST

Mathieu Joseph(Right Wing)|Ottawa Senators
Injury

Joseph (lower-body) is not expected to play Sunday.
Joseph left Friday's game with a lower-body injury and did not return. With the Senators recalling two forwards from Belleville (AHL) on Saturday, it signals that Joseph will not play Sunday in Vegas.
Source:
Bruce Garrioch Dec 17, 2023 @ 10:51 EST

He had some lower body injury. He missed about 3 weeks from Dec. 17 to Jan 9.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Three Way Trade:

To Ottawa
Ullmark

To Boston
Necas

To Carolina
Chychrun

Maybe some picks need to be thrown in, but I think something like this could work.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

The heck with Tanev Staios go get Zadorov he’s exactly what we need.