How good were the 94 Rangers?

[The Panther]

My point was that they bottomed-out early in 1997-98 and then by early 1999-00 were hugely improved.

To put it another way, when Messier arrived, they were in decline. When Messier finished, they were moving in the right direction.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The seventh oilers thing is a bit overdone. Only messier and graves were top players with oiler connections and graves isn’t well known for his oiler time.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Wait, how much sense does it make again?


And, no, you're wrong again. The Canucks hugely improved in Messier's third season -- especially when he was in the line-up.

The canucks won 30 games and missed the playoffs in his third year there. What on earth are you talking about lol? He was also -15 and scored 54 points(in 66 games).

I guess if you take into account he was 38-39 years old that season doesn't look too bad. Reality is he only scored that much because he was playing on a garbage team that didn't have many other options. At that point of his career, he wouldn't have made it onto the wings, or the avs, or the stars.

My point was that they bottomed-out early in 1997-98 and then by early 1999-00 were hugely improved.

My point is he was a bad team scorer at that point in his career. Nothing wrong with that given his age and previous accomplishment, but you(oilers fanboy) overrating him is as ridiculous as Canucks fans discrediting his career accomplishments.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

The top two pairs had three Hall of Fame d-men

well technically yes but…

Every single one of those players besides maybe Tikkanen has a Hall of Fame case (Gartner's already in). 4 of the 6 finished their career with over 400 goals, and Graves (50+ goals that season) came close. 3 of the 6 had been Selke finalists or Top 5 Selke voting at some point, with Tikkanen being a multi time Selke finalist.

i would highly highly disagree that graves or amonte have better hall of fame cases than tikkanen. i mean i guess maybe amonte if i am conceding that much of the selection committee doesn’t remember that far back and only reads the back of hockey cards and 400 and 900 are round numbers, but adam graves? he doesn’t even have as many career pts as tikkanen, on top of not being nearly the player tikkanen was.

 

[The Panther]

The canucks won 30 games and missed the playoffs in his third year there. What on earth are you talking about lol?

I said they were moving in the right direction. How is this even debatable? In 1998, they had 58 points. In 1999, they had 83 points.

My point is he was a bad team scorer at that point in his career.

He had the #1 PPG on the club (and was voted team MVP).

 

[Gorskyontario]

He had the #1 PPG on the club (and was voted team MVP).

Yeah, real accomplishment being outscored by Andrew Cassels.

 

[blogofmike]

Under the radar stat: In the playoffs, the Rangers had a 91.3% PK. There have been better numbers in different eras, but for the 1990s, it stands out.

NHL.com removed the GA/GF data, but I believe the list of PK players in the playoffs was basically Brian Leetch and the 1990 Oilers.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Messier better send Leetch a gift every year for going full Bobby Orr in the playoffs and cementing Messier's legacy for him

 

[WarriorofTime]

Messier better send Leetch a gift every year for going full Bobby Orr in the playoffs and cementing Messier's legacy for him

I assume nobody takes the "Guarantee" that seriously, outside of just mythicism of sport. I guess since it's New York everything about that is more sensationalized than it ought to be. But Messier had an elite playoffs in his own right, so a bit harsh as he wasn't carried or anything.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

The '94 Rangers were one of the better teams of the 1990s, with their series wins over New Jersey and Vancouver being some of the best hockey I've watched in my lifetime. Much like the '91 and '92 Pittsburgh teams, I thought the '94 Rangers had an air of inevitability around them....not that they were some unstoppable force, but more that it was just "their year" and the roster that was built had enough talent, experience and leadership to get the job done in the end.

 

[Sanf]

My point was that they bottomed-out early in 1997-98 and then by early 1999-00 were hugely improved.

To put it another way, when Messier arrived, they were in decline. When Messier finished, they were moving in the right direction.

Not that I´m saying that Canucks wasn ´t on downswing before Messier, but didn´t they have even worse season in 98-99 with 58 points being second to last in league with 20 points outside playoffs?

And one wants to point out he was first in teams ppg in 99-00 at the same time it could be mentioned that in points per 60 minutes he was behind Bertuzzi and narrowly both Cassels and Näslund. Messier played almost 6 minutes per game more than Bertuzzi. But to be honest neither stat isn´t that important.

I took small time travel and in 99-00 he was credited lot on Canucks improvment in PK. So did not totally float it seems. But sayin that Messier had impact on that future improvment needs more proof. And is kind of OT in Rangers thread.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, I feel like the two prevailing sentiments left me with no place to go...

We have someone saying that Messier transformed Vancouver into a better situation somehow, after he under-performed and tore the locker room in at least two and running through three coaches in three years...

Then another person saying that he wouldn't have been able to beat out Stacy Roest for playing time...

Tough spot...

 

[connellc]

I can't believe that people are missing an integral piece and this individual only spent 1 year with the team. MIKE KEENAN. He set up a program from the beginning of the season to "win the cup" and pushed the team to the limit. That 1994 team put ALL THEIR CHIPS IN, by mortgaging their future to bring in Keenan, former Oilers and proven winners and Keenan players like Noonan, Matteau (who scored two huge goals). It worked, and they accomplished their goal. Keenan brought the US VS THEM mentality and for that short period it worked. From my understanding, I heard a story that Keenan's hard-nosed style was already getting worn by finals of that year by benching Brian Leetch in an important game, so it was an all or nothing proposition. They had to win, and did. Props for Neil Smith too for pulling the trigger and potentially ruining team chemistry with his deadline deals.

 

[CrosbyIsKing87]

Not better than the 1992 or1993 Penguins

 

[Gorskyontario]

Then another person saying that he wouldn't have been able to beat out Stacy Roest for playing time...

Who said that?

 

[Sanf]

I guess one person who deserves bit credit on this team would be Rangers European scout Christer Rocktröm. Neil Smith decided to hire Rocström in summer of 1989. They had been few years without Euroscout after Lars-Erik Sjöberg died. Rockström formerly worked for Red Wings too.

To my understanding he talked Rangers to take Zubov in fifth round. Not that Zubov would have been big secret, but Rocström believed he would be a franchise player and worth taking at that point even with risk of never getting him. And Nemchinov in late pick was purely his tip. Similarly he was main reason why Kovalev was selected by Rangers next year.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The seventh oilers thing is a bit overdone. Only messier and graves were top players with oiler connections and graves isn’t well known for his oiler time.

Not the forum for this maybe but the LOLz the New York Oilers is not an argument made in good faith, it's an argument made by rival fans to discredit the team.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

well technically yes but…



i would highly highly disagree that graves or amonte have better hall of fame cases than tikkanen. i mean i guess maybe amonte if i am conceding that much of the selection committee doesn’t remember that far back and only reads the back of hockey cards and 400 and 900 are round numbers, but adam graves? he doesn’t even have as many career pts as tikkanen, on top of not being nearly the player tikkanen was.

I won't disagree, particularly on Graves. But Amonte for sure would have a better case with the selection committee. I think the fact that TIkkanen was never a top line player hurts him. But you're right, you could make a case for him.

 

[VanIslander]

But he grew up WITHIN EYESIGHT OF THE JOE!

I went to Windsor in 1994 for graduate school, the UofW just across the Detroit River from the Joe, I, in an apartment midway between the Ambassador Bridge and the tunnel north of the arena (from downtown).

I am VanIander. Born in Vancouver General Hospital just a couple of weeks before now, just more than 55 years ago, going through most of elementary school in a small coastal town on Vancouver Island (an island longer than South Korea, where i've been working a long time).

I went to IHL rookie and defensive player of the year Viper Sergei Samsonov games. I went to and begrudgedly cheered for a Leafs win during a Red Wings NHL-record-setting win NHL season. I had my heart crushed by watching Coffey circle center ice like one of my Canucks, Cliff Ronning, i much more disappointed by #7 cuz i wore his number - before i was cut in youth hockey, as a dman. Ugh.

Hockey got me my multi-year journalism career (4 to 7 years, depends how you cut it).

Please do not ridicule me for living within eyesight of the Joe (and seeing fans walk up the steps) because it is a fond memory. That said, i was not trying to live there; in fact several attempts to living closer to the University of Windsor were unsuccessful. (I did often buy lunch from Subway while walking to campus - fresh Filipino coconut buns if i cut Eastward)

I was there at the barn in Windsor when Spezza was booed and Ott cheered. Look it up. (It was preInternet so idgaf if google or the like succeeds).

 

[MadLuke]

Please do not ridicule me for living within eyesight of the Joe

That really not is being ridiculized, there obviously nothing wrong for living near the Joe, being in graduate school, etc...

Thinking that it is particularly relevant who (North America wide) considered the favorite to reach the finals is what people find a bit funny.

Also nothing strange to being wrong about it, human memory is generally terrible.

 

[VanIslander]

I have stated going to games BECAUSE I WAS SO CLOSE to the arena.I wasn't some wallflower, balcony hermit!! Gawd. Defending **** seems like ****. HfBoards is becoming Twitter. Er, "X". Twisted personal insults galore!... let's ... if the future allows,.. get us back to on-ice commentary.
To the main topic:

NY over NJ was huge; Van over Cal was huge.
The final was enormous!

Flush the rest of the playoffs. Re-watch those series!!

 

[Hobnobs]

I guess one person who deserves bit credit on this team would be Rangers European scout Christer Rocktröm. Neil Smith decided to hire Rocström in summer of 1989. They had been few years without Euroscout after Lars-Erik Sjöberg died. Rockström formerly worked for Red Wings too.

To my understanding he talked Rangers to take Zubov in fifth round. Not that Zubov would have been big secret, but Rocström believed he would be a franchise player and worth taking at that point even with risk of never getting him. And Nemchinov in late pick was purely his tip. Similarly he was main reason why Kovalev was selected by Rangers next year.

Not to mention (off topic I now) getting Lundqvist.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I won't disagree, particularly on Graves. But Amonte for sure would have a better case with the selection committee. I think the fact that TIkkanen was never a top line player hurts him. But you're right, you could make a case for him.

of course tikkanen was a top line player

he began his career with two cups as the LW on gretzky and kurri’s line

then after gretzky left he was LW with kurri and jimmy carson, both scored 100 pts that year as edmonton’s 1A line

year after that, he was on the 1B line as messier had his mvp year, but tik was for my money the real mvp of the playoffs

year after that he led the oilers in scoring

 

[wetcoast]

of course tikkanen was a top line player

he began his career with two cups as the LW on gretzky and kurri’s line

then after gretzky left he was LW with kurri and jimmy carson, both scored 100 pts that year as edmonton’s 1A line

year after that, he was on the 1B line as messier had his mvp year, but tik was for my money the real mvp of the playoffs

year after that he led the oilers in scoring

Tikkanen is one of those players that people will look back at 50 years from now and say meh but he actually was a better player and brought more to the table than just his stats.

Had he played say on the 50s or 70s Habs or 60s Leafs he would be in the HHOF and a legend.

 

[VanIslander]

Tikkanen played with Messier a lot in Edmonton. (Sather was willing)

Tikki is a staple 3rd liner in 20+ years of all-time drafting here on HfBoards. He is respected.

I do think future generations should see and read about Esa Tikkanen & Claude Lemieux. They bled hockey repeatedly successfully. They showed elite grit and clutch play, in the face of all opposition. They are the weeds of the garden that the gardener doesn't admire, but those who love the spirit of surviving, should.

Edit: wait, comparing 4-time Stanley Cup champions to weeds isn't apt; they are more like that veg next to your meat that you begrudgedly eat but actually strengthens your body.