Value of: Jets 1st, Mesar, Avs 2nd, One of (Harris, Ylonen, Farrell)

[SnuggaRUDE]

Mesar is not a grade A but he is a good trending B+. It was his D+2 and he put up very good numbers. 52 in 45 games with 19 goals and backed that up with 16 pts in 10 playoff games. International numbers against the best players his age is also very solid.

I stand firm on Mesar's value. He's actually worth a a pick around 20 or better, because you know he is not a complete bust. There are two angles to this. We don't even know who the bust picks are from 10-30 in this draft.

I think the Jets 1st, Mesar, and Avs 2nd is fair. Fair is only a word though. The other team has to like the talent with the Jets 1st (24-27) and also like what they see in Mesar. Avs 2nd is the bonus and the young NHL depth is OK as an add on.

You can stand firm; but past experiences are not your ally here. Sure there are slight wingers who don't put up numbers as OA who make it; but it's a tough row to hoe. He's 4th in scoring behind a pair of teens who actually are trending well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You can stand firm; but past experiences are not your ally here. Sure there are slight wingers who don't put up numbers as OA who make it; but it's a tough row to hoe. He's 4th in scoring behind a pair of teens who actually are trending well.

Yes but your formula is one sided because you have a outcome in mind Have you seen other other attempts to move up? It was Jets 1st, No Mesar, and pieces like Barron, Harris, Ylonen only. Maybe the Avs 2nd in that mix.

Mesar has good value. Not great but good. His international numbers are solid and this is a good test. After all, it's better quality than the CHL. It's the best players his age. Not a goal scoring winger but his skating/play making/vision is very very good. I project him as a middle 6F. Below average 2nd line but above average 3rd line type.

I'm not easily just throwing in Mesar. Don't fool yourself with the bag of spare parts approach. It's as deep as I would personally go and no, I'm not trading the Jets 1st and a grade A to move 10-15 spots. Grade A prospects are not thrown around that easily

Someone tried to say the Flames 1st (or Panthers... pick has conditions) has better value than Mesar. I think not. It's close and today, I give the edge to Mesar because he is trending well.

 

[DJN21]

You'd have to include barron lolz

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Filip Mesar is a smaller winger who was barely point per game as a D+2, 19 year old 1st round NHL pick, and finished 6th in team scoring. In what world is he trending well? He's definitely not worth a 1st round pick, and definitely not a piece any team would value highly in a trade down. Small wingers are the least valuable position in hockey and can be found very cheap via trade/draft/free agency.

I've said this in multiple threads now, but if MTL wants to move up in the draft, they need to use draft capital (aka picks) and not their depth excess guys.

That means you'd be looking to use: WPG 24 1st, CGY/FLA 25 1st, COL 24 2nd, MTL 25 2nd, or PIT 25 2nd as trade pieces. Not Harris, Mesar, Ylonen, etc.

 

[Mersss]

Calen Addison was once named to the AHL all rookie team...that award doesn't all of a sudden make a prospect worth a lottery pick.

A 15oa is not a lottery pick

Poster mentioned it would take Mailloux (worth about a pick around 15 considering achievements and overall growth as a player) + a pick 24 to climb to 15. How does that even make sense?

People seem to forget Mailloux wpuld have been a top15pick on his own in hia draft year if not for his mistake.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

A 15oa is not a lottery pick

Poster mentioned it would take Mailloux (worth about a pick around 15 considering achievements and overall growth as a player) + a pick 24 to climb to 15. How does that even make sense?

People seem to forget Mailloux wpuld have been a top15pick on his own in hia draft year if not for his mistake.

The top 16 picks in the NHL draft are lottery picks. They are the only picks eligible to move up in the lottery.

Just because you, a habs fan, value Mailloux "worth about a pick around 15" does not mean anyone else does. What makes him worth 15 oa?

How on earth do montreal fans make these claims that all of their prospects are worth 1st round picks? If that's the case, don't you think you would either be a better team, or they would've been traded for better roster players by now?

 

[Mersss]

The top 16 picks in the NHL draft are lottery picks. They are the only picks eligible to move up in the lottery.

Just because you, a habs fan, value Mailloux "worth about a pick around 15" does not mean anyone else does. What makes him worth 15 oa?

How on earth do montreal fans make these claims that all of their prospects are worth 1st round picks? If that's the case, don't you think you would either be a better team, or they would've been traded for better roster players by now?

1- AHL top rookie Dman, big. Fast, huge shot, plays with aggressiveness, guy has been a beast since he was drafted. His stock has clearly rose since being drafted. Only idiots would say otherwise. Go look at the peeps drafted between 10-20 in Maolloux draft and besides Othmann and Maybe Wallstedt, Habs aren't trading Mailloux for anyone on that list and thats a fact

2- We are rebuilding. Habs are in no rush to improve the roster and win games. Proof os Hutson Struble Mailloux and Reinbaher.most likely play in the AHL next year until the TDL in order.for us to avoid losing Barron to waivers for free. Once Savard is traded at the TDL and the surplus is traded for picks, they'll be promoted. That's how you build a team that will won for long time.

 

[Maitz]

Mesar is worth the Flames 1st or more because he is having good D+1 and D+2 development (not a bust pick). So you are basically proposing the same dangle as I did.

Jets 1st
Flames 1st vs Mesar
Avs 2nd
Young NHL ready Depth player

Mesar is clearly not worth a 1st pick right now, the guy underachieved in the CHL and is very inconsistent

 

[Habs Halifax]

Mesar is clearly not worth a 1st pick right now, the guy underachieved in the CHL and is very inconsistent

Don't agree. He's just not a grade A. He's a B+ trending well. I would say his D+1 was meh but his D+2 is solid.

There are many late 1st rounders than don't put up the numbers Mesar has.

 

[Gaud]

The top 16 picks in the NHL draft are lottery picks. They are the only picks eligible to move up in the lottery.

Just because you, a habs fan, value Mailloux "worth about a pick around 15" does not mean anyone else does. What makes him worth 15 oa?

How on earth do montreal fans make these claims that all of their prospects are worth 1st round picks? If that's the case, don't you think you would either be a better team, or they would've been traded for better roster players by now?

Probably driven by the same reasons that you group all mtl fans as having made that assertion. Hell, even this guy doesn't make the assertion that all mtl's prosects are worth firsts. Asking for reasoning and stats to backup claims will do way more towards opening a debate than uttering fallacies that do nothing to refute a claim.

 

[CanadienShark]

Yes but your formula is one sided because you have a outcome in mind Have you seen other other attempts to move up? It was Jets 1st, No Mesar, and pieces like Barron, Harris, Ylonen only. Maybe the Avs 2nd in that mix.

Mesar has good value. Not great but good. His international numbers are solid and this is a good test. After all, it's better quality than the CHL. It's the best players his age. Not a goal scoring winger but his skating/play making/vision is very very good. I project him as a middle 6F. Below average 2nd line but above average 3rd line type.

I'm not easily just throwing in Mesar. Don't fool yourself with the bag of spare parts approach. It's as deep as I would personally go and no, I'm not trading the Jets 1st and a grade A to move 10-15 spots. Grade A prospects are not thrown around that easily

Someone tried to say the Flames 1st (or Panthers... pick has conditions) has better value than Mesar. I think not. It's close and today, I give the edge to Mesar because he is trending well.

I think Jets 1st + Mailloux + Avs 2nd is needed to start the conversation for 14th overall. And I'd consider that reasonable from the Habs side too. I'm sure you'll disagree though. Mailloux actually fills a need for the Sharks. Guys like Harris, Struble, Mesar, etc. do not.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think Jets 1st + Mailloux + Avs 2nd is needed to start the conversation for 14th overall. And I'd consider that reasonable from the Habs side too. I'm sure you'll disagree though. Mailloux actually fills a need for the Sharks. Guys like Harris, Struble, Mesar, etc. do not.

It's close to what I posted but more value because I do think Mailloux is a grade A where Mesar is a B+.

I just don't like offering both the Jets pick and a Grade A. That's risky. It's very rare to see both a late 1st and Grade A prospect in the same package. Mailloux has the chance to be the best piece from all the pieces. Including the 14th pick! The 10-15 range is not a sure shot grade A like Mailloux. No way anybody can convince me that. Not pre draft and not even in this draft where the value looks good from 10-15.

I would not even trade Mailloux straight up for the 10-15 range. We have a very good understanding on what we have with Mailloux today and he is NHL ready. He's shown maturity and he is a rare RD with size/skating and a great shot.

I believe you overreached to make other fans happy on HF boards. I would not slip in Mailloux like it's some spare add. He alone is worth a pick from 10-15 range. I'd rethink that one bud

 

[HABitual Fan]

Yes but your formula is one sided because you have a outcome in mind Have you seen other other attempts to move up? It was Jets 1st, No Mesar, and pieces like Barron, Harris, Ylonen only. Maybe the Avs 2nd in that mix.

Mesar has good value. Not great but good. His international numbers are solid and this is a good test. After all, it's better quality than the CHL. It's the best players his age. Not a goal scoring winger but his skating/play making/vision is very very good. I project him as a middle 6F. Below average 2nd line but above average 3rd line type.

I'm not easily just throwing in Mesar. Don't fool yourself with the bag of spare parts approach. It's as deep as I would personally go and no, I'm not trading the Jets 1st and a grade A to move 10-15 spots. Grade A prospects are not thrown around that easily

Someone tried to say the Flames 1st (or Panthers... pick has conditions) has better value than Mesar. I think not. It's close and today, I give the edge to Mesar because he is trending well.

Unless you have a player you are super high on available at 15, there is no logical reason to move up as this draft will be all over the place after the top 10 get drafted. I see no reason a rebuilding team should be trading draft capital and/or recent 1st round picks before they know what they have in them.

If there is nobody at 24 they are crazy about, and they are not using the pick to acquire a player, I personally would trade back for a couple of picks in the 2nd round and take a chance on a few players who have big upside but won't still be available at the Colorado 2nd.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

I am a Habs fan and I can say no one wants our garbage. All these prospects being named have zero value minus Mailloux.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Unless you have a player you are super high on available at 15, there is no logical reason to move up as this draft will be all over the place after the top 10 get drafted. I see no reason a rebuilding team should be trading draft capital and/or recent 1st round picks before they know what they have in them.

If there is nobody at 24 they are crazy about, and they are not using the pick to acquire a player, I personally would trade back for a couple of picks in the 2nd round and take a chance on a few players who have big upside but won't still be available at the Colorado 2nd.

It's just a solid quantity dangle to see if a team around 15 is interested. All draft boards are different so you never know. I don't have faith this has high probability because teams do get emotionally tied to the "quality" that 10-15 range might get them.

I'm just not going to go any deeper. No way I offer both the Jets 1st and a grade A like Mailloux for a 10-15 range dart. I would not even trade Mailloux for that pick straight up. Call me crazy if you want.

I am a Habs fan and I can say no one wants our garbage. All these prospects being named have zero value minus Mailloux.

If you have to use trigger words like Garbage, I don't think you are coming from a reasonable voice of reason like you think you are.

 

[HABitual Fan]

It's just a solid quantity dangle to see if a team around 15 is interested. All draft boards are different so you never know. I don't have faith this has high probability because teams do get emotionally tied to the "quality" that 10-15 range might get them.

I'm just not going to go any deeper. No way I offer both the Jets 1st and a grade A like Mailloux for a 10-15 range dart. I would not even trade Mailloux for that pick straight up. Call me crazy if you want.



If you have to use trigger words like Garbage, I don't think you are coming from a reasonable voice of reason like you think you are.

As I said, I prefer more 2nd round picks and look to draft guys who fell from the 1st round or a high upside player like Poirier who probably won't be there at the Colorado pick.

 

[Habs Halifax]

As I said, I prefer more 2nd round picks and look to draft guys who fell from the 1st round or a high upside player like Poirier who probably won't be there at the Colorado pick.

That would be my plan B or C.

Plan A: Try to move up in the 10-15 range. Low probability but you don't know if you don't try.

Plan B: Use the Jets 1st and Avs 2nd and maybe other pieces to add another Dach or Newhook.

Plan C. Stay put and draft guys like what you just said.

 

[HabzSauce]

These types of trades would benefit teams with depleted cupboards like WSH, PIT, NYI, etc

Quantity over quality. Gotta find the right dance partner but it's definitely a nice bundle of assets (1st, 2nd, B prospect and young LHD)

 

[Baksfamous112]

Calen Addison was once named to the AHL all rookie team...that award doesn't all of a sudden make a prospect worth a lottery pick.

Lottery was last week. The draft is set in stone now

 

[Xirik]

These types of trades would benefit teams with depleted cupboards like WSH, PIT, NYI, etc

Quantity over quality. Gotta find the right dance partner but it's definitely a nice bundle of assets (1st, 2nd, B prospect and young LHD)

Sadly Pit doesn't have a pick and NYI are run by a GM who is win now mode no mater what.


Anyways, Trades should usually make both sides happy or hurt both sides but they know it was the correct decision for the team.

 

[TBF1972]

A 15oa is not a lottery pick

Poster mentioned it would take Mailloux (worth about a pick around 15 considering achievements and overall growth as a player) + a pick 24 to climb to 15. How does that even make sense?

People seem to forget Mailloux wpuld have been a top15pick on his own in hia draft year if not for his mistake.

and for the same mistake a lot of teams wouldn't consider him until today. the devils wouldn't touch him after being involved in the hockey canada scandal with mcleod and foote.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You'd have to include barron lolz

Did you just start laughing and then fall asleep (lolz)?

These types of trades would benefit teams with depleted cupboards like WSH, PIT, NYI, etc

Quantity over quality. Gotta find the right dance partner but it's definitely a nice bundle of assets (1st, 2nd, B prospect and young LHD)

Its the best we can offer without overstretching ourselves.

Good point on the shallow pools.

 

[DJN21]

Did you just start laughing and then fall asleep (lolz)?



Its the best we can offer without overstretching ourselves.

Good point on the shallow pools.

No im just not 73 years old so I get the lingo

 

[CanadienShark]

It's close to what I posted but more value because I do think Mailloux is a grade A where Mesar is a B+.

I just don't like offering both the Jets pick and a Grade A. That's risky. It's very rare to see both a late 1st and Grade A prospect in the same package. Mailloux has the chance to be the best piece from all the pieces. Including the 14th pick! The 10-15 range is not a sure shot grade A like Mailloux. No way anybody can convince me that. Not pre draft and not even in this draft where the value looks good from 10-15.

I would not even trade Mailloux straight up for the 10-15 range. We have a very good understanding on what we have with Mailloux today and he is NHL ready. He's shown maturity and he is a rare RD with size/skating and a great shot.

I believe you overreached to make other fans happy on HF boards. I would not slip in Mailloux like it's some spare add. He alone is worth a pick from 10-15 range. I'd rethink that one bud

I think you're way over valuing Mailloux.

 

[dgibb10]

Don't agree. He's just not a grade A. He's a B+ trending well. I would say his D+1 was meh but his D+2 is solid.

There are many late 1st rounders than don't put up the numbers Mesar has.

Here are some recent late 1sts in the OHL

Easton Cowan, Quintin Musty, Calum Ritchie. Rank 2, 1, and 6th in the OHL in PPG respectively.