Player Discussion: Kent Johnson - Winger or Center?

[VT]

He’s a better option at center than Sillinger, Roslovic, and Laine.

Down the line when he adds significant weight/strength I think he could be looked at and used as a center, but, I really think he should be looked at like a Panarin/Gaudreau type, where they are “better” (aka more productive point-wise), or can be just as impactful on the wing. That’s to say, I do believe he has more center qualities than both those guys.

With where the CBJ center position is at we might end up “rushing” or “forcing” him at center before he’s absolutely ready, but, I don’t think it will hurt anything in the long run regarding his development, and even if I would prefer 2 other centers(along with Jenner) instead of KJ to fill the “top 9”.

If anything, this past year as a “wasted”/“development”/“tank” year, we should have given KJ all the time at center that Sillinger was given.

I think Sillinger is LESS of a center than Johnson. Sillinger would be better as a shooting/goal scoring/energy winger. The fact that we had Sillinger and Roslovic on the PK is asinine. But, what other options did Larsen have??

I’d have Johnson on the 1st line as a winger next year, with looks at center. He’s seemingly very skinny, we could see a huge physical “transformation” or growth spurt/“man strength” kick in, in the next 2 summers where he comes into camp with a completely different physique and it shows on the ice, like we just saw with Chinakhov. I think then, the move to center might be best for the team and him.

I see him as a center too, but I'd still wait another season. Or at least part of it. Because if he gains muscle mass, strength, his body has to get used to it.
IMO, Sillinger could be a good center, just a question of whether there will be spot for him at that position. However, the future will tell.

 

[stevo61]

I feel like Johnson has Datsyuk like upside. Wont be as stalky or as elite of a puck theif but will still be very effective at it while being insanely creative and making his linemates better.

 

[NotCommitted]

If anything, this past year as a “wasted”/“development”/“tank” year, we should have given KJ all the time at center that Sillinger was given.

I think Sillinger is LESS of a center than Johnson. Sillinger would be better as a shooting/goal scoring/energy winger. The fact that we had Sillinger and Roslovic on the PK is asinine. But, what other options did Larsen have??

Agreed KJ should've gotten more looks at center. I'm not concerned about it, I think his usage has been fine, but this would've been the perfect year to get some time at C with as little pressure as possible in an NHL game.

Nothing wrong with Roslovic on the PK, you don't have to be defensively good 5v5 to be an effective PKer and he's done well.

 

[VT]

I don't know what think on it. Center must play another way.

 

[Cowumbus]

There was speculation on KJ playing, but looks like he is not going to the WC. Maybe that means he will be in the weight room @stevo61 @majormajor

 

[MoeBartoli]

There was speculation on KJ playing, but looks like he is not going to the WC. Maybe that means he will be in the weight room @stevo61 @majormajor

Show me a roster with Milan Lucic and I’ll show you a pool of slim pickin’s……must have been a lot of “no thanks” to offers

 

[DEF]

Milan knows where the good restaurants are.

 

[stevo61]

There was speculation on KJ playing, but looks like he is not going to the WC. Maybe that means he will be in the weight room @stevo61 @majormajor

Excellent, hes played enough hockey lately. Hopefully he in BC training with his soon to be teammate .

 

[MoeBartoli]

I don't know what think on it. Center must play another way.
View attachment 695098

VT, please help me digest this chart. I know the acronyms….is this refer to who KJ was on ice with Player by player? And I’m assuming it’s KJ regardless of position (Therefore both wing and center).

 

[VT]

VT, please help me digest this chart. I know the acronyms….is this refer to who KJ was on ice with Player by player? And I’m assuming it’s KJ regardless of position (Therefore both wing and center).

When Kent played with, for example Gaudreau and if Gaudreau played without him. If red colour, a player plays better without Kent. More precisely has more high dangerous scoring chances (HDSC) without him.
Yes, in all, but Kent played few games as a center.

 

[NotCommitted]

When Kent played with, for example Gaudreau and if Gaudreau played without him. If red colour, a player plays better without Kent. More precisely has more high dangerous scoring chances (HDSC) without him.
Yes, in all, but Kent played few games as a center.

I wouldn't stare at only HDSC too much - it's just one metric and how it qualifies a chance as "high danger" will not be foolproof. And it won't take into account player's skill, finishing ability, how fast they move the puck etc.

If you look at Johnson with & without Sillinger for example - they played 220 min together 5v5 and had pretty poor results and underlying metrics, 35% GF for example (-6). Sillinger's CF% went from 42% with Johnson to 45% without him and high danger CF% from 37 to 47. Basically for everything but 5v5 goal differential Sillinger did better without Johnson.

So was Johnson dragging Sillinger down? Well... Sillinger without Johnson was -18 5v5 (29.55% GF) while Johnson without Sillinger was -3 (47.76% GF). They both had similar CF% without each other, Sillinger had 47% HDCF% vs Johnson's 40%, all in all Sillinger's underlying metrics were slightly better than Johnson's, but the difference is not huge. So both players did better away from each other in underlying metrics and as for actual goals scored, Sillinger kept getting outscored by a huge amount no matter who he played with, while Johnson played close to 50/50 hockey away from Sillinger, which in this team was somewhat of an accomplishment.

Yet looking at your list, the easy conclusion would be that Johnson was holding back Sillinger because of that red number. Ok, Johnson had the advantage of getting way more minutes with Laine and/or Gaudreau. Then again, with the very limited minutes Sillinger got with either of those two, he still had really crappy results.

TLDR;
A list like that is inconclusive at best and downright misleading at worst.

 

[VT]

I wouldn't stare at only HDSC too much - it's just one metric and how it qualifies a chance as "high danger" will not be foolproof. And it won't take into account player's skill, finishing ability, how fast they move the puck etc.

If you look at Johnson with & without Sillinger for example - they played 220 min together 5v5 and had pretty poor results and underlying metrics, 35% GF for example (-6). Sillinger's CF% went from 42% with Johnson to 45% without him and high danger CF% from 37 to 47. Basically for everything but 5v5 goal differential Sillinger did better without Johnson.

So was Johnson dragging Sillinger down? Well... Sillinger without Johnson was -18 5v5 (29.55% GF) while Johnson without Sillinger was -3 (47.76% GF). They both had similar CF% without each other, Sillinger had 47% HDCF% vs Johnson's 40%, all in all Sillinger's underlying metrics were slightly better than Johnson's, but the difference is not huge. So both players did better away from each other in underlying metrics and as for actual goals scored, Sillinger kept getting outscored by a huge amount no matter who he played with, while Johnson played close to 50/50 hockey away from Sillinger, which in this team was somewhat of an accomplishment.

Yet looking at your list, the easy conclusion would be that Johnson was holding back Sillinger because of that red number. Ok, Johnson had the advantage of getting way more minutes with Laine and/or Gaudreau. Then again, with the very limited minutes Sillinger got with either of those two, he still had really crappy results.

TLDR;
A list like that is inconclusive at best and downright misleading at worst.

I use this stat more as an example of player chemistry. Still, it's odd that everyone except Roslovic had it worse with Kent. Although things may be different for next season.

 

[wdkennedy27]

I use this stat more as an example of player chemistry. Still, it's odd that everyone except Roslovic had it worse with Kent. Although things may be different for next season.

This could be very inaccurate, but I feel like the stats from this year do not carry that much weight. The forwards had AHL defenders on the blue line and were constantly being forced to play with changing linemates. I believe that given someone like KJ had NHL caliber defense behind him and some consistency with linemates to build chemistry, he could've been in the green with anyone on the team.

 

[MoeBartoli]

This could be very inaccurate, but I feel like the stats from this year do not carry that much weight. The forwards had AHL defenders on the blue line and were constantly being forced to play with changing linemates. I believe that given someone like KJ had NHL caliber defense behind him and some consistency with linemates to build chemistry, he could've been in the green with anyone on the team.

Meant to say this on your previous post, but got sidetracked as I was doing so…So belatedly I say welcome to HF Boards.

 

[KJ Dangler]

 

[majormajor]

They all look so sluggish on wheels.

I spent more of my formative years on wheels than on ice and I found that my skills with the ball didn't translate to the pucks, so it is surprising to me that here we have several of the players with the best puck skills in the world spending so much time with the ball.

There's a decent chance Cristall will be available at pick #22 if we want to take a swing.

 

[CBJx614]

They all look so sluggish on wheels.

I spent more of my formative years on wheels than on ice and I found that my skills with the ball didn't translate to the pucks, so it is surprising to me that here we have several of the players with the best puck skills in the world spending so much time with the ball.

There's a decent chance Cristall will be available at pick #22 if we want to take a swing.

Idk if it's just your wording, but they are using a puck. But you're right, it feels weird going from one to the other, skating wise it's a bit different. There's SOOO much more friction between the puck and surface it forces you to be a better stick handler as you have to really pay attention to the puck on your stick.

 

[majormajor]

Idk if it's just your wording, but they are using a puck. But you're right, it feels weird going from one to the other, skating wise it's a bit different. There's SOOO much more friction between the puck and surface it forces you to be a better stick handler as you have to really pay attention to the puck on your stick.

Well that would explain it, I played in leagues that used a ball. Roller hockey pucks ceaselessly rolled on edge, lol.

 

[CBJx614]

Well that would explain it, I played in leagues that used a ball. Roller hockey pucks ceaselessly rolled on edge, lol.

There's actually some really nice training pucks as long as you're not shooting them. Check out the green biscuit, it glides on most surfaces but on a roller rink it really makes you feel like you're on ice. You might get a few shots off with it, but it'll blow apart eventually if you keep shooting.

 

[JacketFanInFL]

Can we quit calling it "a Michigan?" Should be illegal in Ohio. It feels wrong to say in a jubilant fashion.

 

[VT]

The center has to skate well, control the line play (not skate alone with the puck but use teammates like Crosby), be physically strong. If Kent does that, he can be there center.

I'm just worried about one thing. Whether it makes sense to move him to Gaudreau. Johnny loves the puck, he's a smarter Jack Roslovic. The role of teammates is to get the puck out, wait for passes, and in front of the net.

 

[CBJx614]

The center has to skate well, control the line play (not skate alone with the puck but use teammates like Crosby), be physically strong. If Kent does that, he can be there center.

I'm just worried about one thing. Whether it makes sense to move him to Gaudreau. Johnny loves the puck, he's a smarter Jack Roslovic. The role of teammates is to get the puck out, wait for passes, and in front of the net.

I don't think Johnny and Johnson should be on the same line, they play too similar and we need the puck to flow through them, I'd rather put Johnson with Laine and Carlsson/Fantilli with Gaudreau.

However if Laine plays C, that puts a wrench into everything.

 

[stevo61]

I don't think Johnny and Johnson should be on the same line, they play too similar and we need the puck to flow through them, I'd rather put Johnson with Laine and Carlsson/Fantilli with Gaudreau.

However if Laine plays C, that puts a wrench into everything.

Im a bit torn. Fantilli with Gaudreau seems like a no brainer. Carlsson though would be the biggest boost for Laine I think.
I also believe Gaudreau and Johnson process the game in a similar fashion I think they actually do it a fair bit differently. That could be a Panarin+Kane type of duo. The issue though becomes you need a guy like Bertuzzi or someone of that style to balance out the line

 

[majormajor]

That could be a Panarin+Kane type of duo. The issue though becomes you need a guy like Bertuzzi or someone of that style to balance out the line

Even Panarin-Kane ate too much into each other's puck time. We just didn't know at that point how good Panarin could be as the dominant playmaker. It wasn't the best combination.

I'm definitely all about offering big money to Bertuzzi ($6m+?), we have a need for that type of player in nearly every scenario.

 

[stevo61]

Even Panarin-Kane ate too much into each other's puck time. We just didn't know at that point how good Panarin could be as the dominant playmaker. It wasn't the best combination.

I'm definitely all about offering big money to Bertuzzi ($6m+?), we have a need for that type of player in nearly every scenario.

Panarin's rookie season was also Kane's highest point total of his career and only topped once a few years later and is still his highest goal scoring season. It was pretty mutually beneficial and certainly helped Panarin adjust to the NHL but we will never know what thry would have been like when Panarin really realized how good he was.