OT: Los Angeles Angels Talk

[GreatBear]

May be the worst owner in baseball. Has completely ruined the Angels due to his meddling and reportedly cheapness when it comes to support personnel and equipment.

I think that the A's owner is the worst owner in baseball. But Arte comes in second worst. The Angels are just pathetic under his ownership.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

GM Minisian is sneaky in his way. The Angels actually do have some youth already in the majors.

• Pitching
  • SP Detmers, age 23
  • SP Silseth, age 23
  • SP Sandoval, age 26
  • RP Bachman, age 24

• Catcher
  • O'Hoppe, ate 23

• Infielders
  • 1B Schanuel, age 21
  • SS Neto, age 22

• Outfielders
  • RF/CF Moniak, age 25

Going the college route in the draft has Neto and Schanuel into the majors this season, with Schanuel drafted this year and Neto last year. C O'Hoppe and RF/CF Moniak were trades.

It's a slow burn, but at least we have a foundation to work with. At least with Minisian, I do see a more concrete plan than under Eppler.

Losing Ohtani is gonna hurt a lot.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I think that the A's owner is the worst owner in baseball. But Arte comes in second worst. The Angels are just pathetic under his ownership. "meddling".

I made and amendment that's more apt. Ownership description implies Moreno was hands off and it was just bad luck. It was quite the opposite.

 

[jiggsawpuzzle35]

Congrats to the Dodgers for playing an extra 3 games this season.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Congrats to the Dodgers for playing an extra 3 games this season.

That's just bad outing for the Dodgers. The Braves are also looking to follow suit, but with a few more games.

Although, we haven't seen the playoffs since 2014, which is nearly a decade ago! I wouldn't mind being a one-hit wonder just to know we have the talent to make it to the playoffs.

If Shohei goes to the Dodgers.... damnit to hell!!!!

 

[JAHV]

I've been a diehard Angels fan for as many of my 41 years as I can remember. They finally killed my fandom this season. It had been waning a bit anyway, basically ever since the Royals sweep in 2014, somewhat because of life and priorities, but also because Moreno was awful at running the organization. I was so ready to get passionate about them again when Moreno announced he was selling the team...only for him to pull the rug out from under us when he reneged on that announcement.

I was legitimately depressed trying to follow the Angels after the trade deadline, so I gave it up. I haven't watched a minute of baseball since the beginning of August. Normally I watch some of the playoffs, even if the Angels aren't in them, but with hockey starting and college football in gear, there's no need.

We'll see how I feel next February. My baseball fandom might be mostly dead instead of all dead. But Moreno has turned being an Angels fan into the Pit of Despair. I want him gone.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

All Angel fans want owner Moreno gone. When one got to that conclusion differs. Mine was when GM Dipoto resigned in-season, exposing the power struggle in the org on top of Moreno's roster meddling. Moreno loves sluggers over pitchers as well as loves Sosh, giving Sosh more power than the GM.

One thing I'll give to Moreno is he's willing to spend, but on Moreno's term - which we have known for more than a decade is a flawed term. Dipoto is the head of baseball ops for Seattle now and he can do whatever he wants, but Seattle's owners don't want to spend money.

After Dipoto left the org, the next GM, Eppler, was Moreno's puppet in going after sluggers and hitters over pitchers, while trading young pitchers for some hitters. Eppler's draft era has mostly sucked. He didn't draft a pitcher in the first round until his fifth and final year in lefty Detmers. Detmers is the only 1st round draftee to stick at the MLB level. Eppler went to the Mets and overspent a fortune, but that attempt failed miserably to where Eppler stepped down as GM.

Most recent GM, Minisian feels similar to Dipoto's tenure here, struggling with Moreno. Minisian had an all pitchers draft in 2021, making a point the team was lacking pitching in their system to the world and Moreno. In three drafts, Minisian's first rounders all look to stay in the MLB with pitcher Bachman, SS Neto, and 1B Schanuel.

While the Angels farm team sucks ass, Minisian has actually made the Angels younger. Pitcher Silseth is from 11th round of the all pitcher draft of 2021, looks like a mainstay at the MLB level. Traded for C O'Hoppe and OF Moniak. Moniak was the first overall selection in the 2016 draft coming out of high school and there appears to be a revival to his game with the Angels at age 25.

The Angels need more pitching help, especially with the potential future loss of Ohtani.

 

[JAHV]

There's a reason that Moreno has never hired an experienced GM - he's not interested in pushback from that position, and the one time he got it (Dipoto), that relationship ended quickly and badly. His president (Carpino) is as much a baseball guy as Moreno himself, which is to say, not at all. Moreno is the epitome of penny wise, pound foolish.

And there's no way to get rid of an owner unless some sort of misanthropy is discovered. I was hoping that might be the case with the Angel Stadium land purchase scandal, but my guess is that Moreno cooperated with the FBI for immunity and MLB isn't interested in doing their own investigation. That's complete speculation on my part.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

There's a reason that Moreno has never hired an experienced GM - he's not interested in pushback from that position, and the one time he got it (Dipoto), that relationship ended quickly and badly. His president (Carpino) is as much a baseball guy as Moreno himself, which is to say, not at all. Moreno is the epitome of penny wise, pound foolish.

"Penny wise, pound flesh" isn't Moreno, though. He spends money, but he doesn't like going over the luxury tax. Moreno is a wannabe Steinbrenner. He wants the awe of a Steinbrenner, but not spend like a Steinbrenner nor think like a Steinbrenner. Arte still wants profit. Will spend on sluggers, but not enough money under the luxury tax for ace pitchers.

Carpino is that conniving 2nd in command (president of Angels), feeding owner Moreno what he wants to hear and doesn't do much - which is why our farm system got exposed to be damned cheap! I can't wholly blame Moreno for that disgusting practice b/c he relies on his subordinates who fluff his ego much. Moreno still runs other businesses beside being the owner of the Angels. Sosh did that and Dipoto resigned. Carpino does that and we look like a cheap ass organization. Yet, Sosh left on his own merits, not fired. And Carpino still isn't fired after several GMs have not worked out, going back to Tony Regan.

Hell, we didn't know that Rendon has a broken fibila until the season was almost over as the reason Rendon was missing for most of the season. Carpino has ultimate say, not GM Minisian. Crazy!

As soon as Moreno leaves, then Carpino will be out as well b/c it's only logical. Good riddance when that occurs!

 

[JAHV]

"Penny wise, pound flesh" isn't Moreno, though. He spends money, but he doesn't like going over the luxury tax. Moreno is a wannabe Steinbrenner. He wants the awe of a Steinbrenner, but not spend like a Steinbrenner nor think like a Steinbrenner. Arte still wants profit. Will spend on sluggers, but not enough money under the luxury tax for ace pitchers.

Carpino is that conniving 2nd in command (president of Angels), feeding owner Moreno what he wants to hear and doesn't do much - which is why our farm system got exposed to be damned cheap! I can't wholly blame Moreno for that disgusting practice b/c he relies on his subordinates who fluff his ego much. Moreno still runs other businesses beside being the owner of the Angels. Sosh did that and Dipoto resigned. Carpino does that and we look like a cheap ass organization. Yet, Sosh left on his own merits, not fired. And Carpino still isn't fired after several GMs have not worked out, going back to Tony Regan.

Hell, we didn't know that Rendon has a broken fibila until the season was almost over as the reason Rendon was missing for most of the season. Carpino has ultimate say, not GM Minisian. Crazy!

As soon as Moreno leaves, then Carpino will be out as well b/c it's only logical. Good riddance when that occurs!

I would say that phrase aptly describes Moreno in this sense:

Yes, he spends money on the major league roster, but he only spends it on giant contracts for big names who are aging past the prime of their career. He was emboldened by his success with Vlad and Bartolo, and now thinks he knows how to locate free agent talent. He doesn't. So he spends big money on guys like Pujols, Hamilton, and Rendon, all of whom were disappointing to various degrees. That's the pound foolish part.

Meanwhile, he is a miser in the back office, running bare bones analytics, scouting, and player development departments (not to mention operations and other ancillary parts of the organization). That, more than anything, has led to the Angels' struggles. How many players have come up through their system and succeeded at the big league level in the last 15 years? There are a few, but compared to other teams with as many resources as the Angels seem to have, it's paltry. There was a great piece in The Athletic about Moreno's penny-pinching and how it compares to other teams. And that's where teams have their success - one dollar invested in player development goes a lot farther than one dollar invested in a 31-year-old slugger on the free agent market.

Until Moreno is willing to eschew his parsimony where it matters, the Angels are going to continue this cycle. Unfortunately, that would mean spending dollars in places where 1) it's not immediately publicly visible, and 2) where other smart people are going to have to make decisions without Moreno's input. It's pretty clear he's not interested in either of those things.

I meant to include this above. If you have an Athletic subscription, here's the piece on Moreno's frugality: How ownership's frugality led Angels to squander 6 years of Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani

 

[Deuce22]

Moreno values making money over all else. That's why he has a weakness for high profile FA's, it gets him attention and puts people in the seats. Also why he wouldn't trade Ohtani when it would have benefited the team long term. Wanted the income from his cash cow for the final months. Can't have a GM in there trying to win baseball games, there is money to be made off the adoring fans.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I would say that phrase aptly describes Moreno in this sense:

Yes, he spends money on the major league roster, but he only spends it on giant contracts for big names who are aging past the prime of their career. He was emboldened by his success with Vlad and Bartolo, and now thinks he knows how to locate free agent talent. He doesn't. So he spends big money on guys like Pujols, Hamilton, and Rendon, all of whom were disappointing to various degrees. That's the pound foolish part.

Meanwhile, he is a miser in the back office, running bare bones analytics, scouting, and player development departments (not to mention operations and other ancillary parts of the organization). That, more than anything, has led to the Angels' struggles. How many players have come up through their system and succeeded at the big league level in the last 15 years? There are a few, but compared to other teams with as many resources as the Angels seem to have, it's paltry. There was a great piece in The Athletic about Moreno's penny-pinching and how it compares to other teams. And that's where teams have their success - one dollar invested in player development goes a lot farther than one dollar invested in a 31-year-old slugger on the free agent market.

Until Moreno is willing to eschew his parsimony where it matters, the Angels are going to continue this cycle. Unfortunately, that would mean spending dollars in places where 1) it's not immediately publicly visible, and 2) where other smart people are going to have to make decisions without Moreno's input. It's pretty clear he's not interested in either of those things.

I meant to include this above. If you have an Athletic subscription, here's the piece on Moreno's frugality: How ownership's frugality led Angels to squander 6 years of Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani

I think you're giving Moreno too much "office" credit and not enough of the responsibilities on President of Baseball Operations Carpino.

Moreno loves the media light, which is why he will gladly spend on sluggers b/c sluggers hit homers, which isn't as boring as throwing a shutout, 1-run, or 2-run games. Moreno's been trying to find a new location to build a new stadium for the Angels for the past four or five years now. In 2021, the Angels and Tempe agreed on a $51 mil renovation project for their spring training facilities. He loves the limelight and he spends!

All the minutiae stuff is handled by Carpino. Carpino's job is to oversee all of the baseball ops. Moreno is doing the Angels PR stuff, radio deals, and then he's also got his other business(es) to tend with. Moreno doesn't know much about baseball ops besides spending money and not going over the luxury tax. Carpino is the Pres of baseball ops and in charge of all that. From the same Athletic article:

“Each organization takes a different approach to their baseball operations and player development efforts, we are no different,” Carpino wrote. “We are constantly reflecting on the lessons learned throughout the course of a season and will continue to make adjustments with the intent of strengthening all aspects of our organization. Every investment we make at both the Major League and Minor League levels is done with the with the primary focus of putting a winning team on the field and driving towards the Championship that our fans and players deserve.”​

Carpino was hired in 2009. He's overseen 4 GM's now and still here. Carpino's a part of the cheap ass minor league system and still here. Carpino could have also stepped into the Dipoto v Sosh power dynamic to tell Sosh he's only the manager and Dipoto the GM. Yet, Dipoto knew better and went above Carpino to owner Moreno. Sadly, Carpino and Sosh have long been in Moreno's ears than Dipoto. But because Moreno is the owner, he is the face of being cheap even though the blame should be on Carpino.

 

[JAHV]

I think you're giving Moreno too much "office" credit and not enough of the responsibilities on President of Baseball Operations Carpino.

Moreno loves the media light, which is why he will gladly spend on sluggers b/c sluggers hit homers, which isn't as boring as throwing a shutout, 1-run, or 2-run games. Moreno's been trying to find a new location to build a new stadium for the Angels for the past four or five years now. In 2021, the Angels and Tempe agreed on a $51 mil renovation project for their spring training facilities. He loves the limelight and he spends!

All the minutiae stuff is handled by Carpino. Carpino's job is to oversee all of the baseball ops. Moreno is doing the Angels PR stuff, radio deals, and then he's also got his other business(es) to tend with. Moreno doesn't know much about baseball ops besides spending money and not going over the luxury tax. Carpino is the Pres of baseball ops and in charge of all that. From the same Athletic article:

“Each organization takes a different approach to their baseball operations and player development efforts, we are no different,” Carpino wrote. “We are constantly reflecting on the lessons learned throughout the course of a season and will continue to make adjustments with the intent of strengthening all aspects of our organization. Every investment we make at both the Major League and Minor League levels is done with the with the primary focus of putting a winning team on the field and driving towards the Championship that our fans and players deserve.”​

Carpino was hired in 2009. He's overseen 4 GM's now and still here. Carpino's a part of the cheap ass minor league system and still here. Carpino could have also stepped into the Dipoto v Sosh power dynamic to tell Sosh he's only the manager and Dipoto the GM. Yet, Dipoto knew better and went above Carpino to owner Moreno. Sadly, Carpino and Sosh have long been in Moreno's ears than Dipoto. But because Moreno is the owner, he is the face of being cheap even though the blame should be on Carpino.

Carpino is employed by Moreno. Carpino is awful at running a baseball team, and that's Moreno's fault,

 

[duxfan1101]

Can anybody explain to me why so many people are excited about hiring 71 year old Ron Washington as our manager?

 

[DucksFanDFW]

As a Ranger fan, I'm sorry for your loss (hiring). I was shocked at how fast the hiring was from the notification that he was interviewing for the position.

 

[Rybread86]

That was NOT the hiring I expected. Odd.

 

[Deuce22]

That was NOT the hiring I expected. Odd.

I think Minasian and Washington were with the Braves at the same time.

 

[Rybread86]

I think Minasian and Washington were with the Braves at the same time.

Maybe. Just didnt expect a 71 year old, who will be 72 when the season starts, to be the guy named as Manager of a team very much in flux.

 

[Deuce22]

Maybe. Just didnt expect a 71 year old, who will be 72 when the season starts, to be the guy named as Manager of a team very much in flux.

Not sure that the Angels are a job that many of the top guys would want.

 

[TheGoodShepard1]

Not sure that the Angels are a job that many of the top guys would want.

Exactly this. It’s a poisoned chalice, everyone knows that working for Arte is potentially baseball suicide.

The most optimistic outlook is that Wash brings stability for a couple years and hires a young guy who he can mentor to be promoted to take his place

 

[Deuce22]

Exactly this. It’s a poisoned chalice, everyone knows that working for Arte is potentially baseball suicide.

The most optimistic outlook is that Wash brings stability for a couple years and hires a young guy who he can mentor to be promoted to take his place

Career suicide for Scoiscia, Ausmus, Maddon.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

On an Angels message board, there's a theory Washington could playing the Eakins' role while one of his bench coaches are managers in training. Torii Hunter, aka Hula Dula, is going to be the 1st base coach. Woooowhooo! My #48 Hunter jersey is back in style again!

 

[GreatBear]

This is a short term hire. It us a two year contract for a 71 year old guy. I guess the idea is to survive the next two years until something, whatever that something is.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

This is a short term hire. It us a two year contract for a 71 year old guy. I guess the idea is to survive the next two years until something, whatever that something is.

A place holder until Arte unloads the team? Please?

 

[Rybread86]

I dont hate the rest of the staff. Torii being back is great, Chili Davis, Hurdle. Wish we would have seen something with Erstad or DiSarcinca