Proposal: MTL-SJ

[Garbageyuk]

Alright man. You continue digging your head in the sand. You refuse to have a conversation with me because I’ve asked you to show your work. There’s your true colors. congrats.

I did respond the last time you used the “show your work” ruse. You simply ignored it and responded with more whining.

 

[Gecklund]

I did respond the last time you used the “show your work” ruse. You simply ignored it and responded with more whining.

Romanov is and was better than either of those guys. This draft is better than 2022. So try again.

 

[Garbageyuk]

And? I showed how he was not already in this thread. Where was your response? Time to show your work. How was Romanov better? Something concrete, not made up BS about him being “a top prospect”. Thats not even mentioning the fact that I almost assuredly have a better idea about what Romanov was than you do.

 

[Grinner]

Shark fans have spoken.
The only Sharks fans you'll find who are willing to move off of 14, are those who wish to trade up.
I suspect there's some prospect you're targeting, hence the wish to trade up
I'd suggest running your offer to both Min and Det. I believe both are looking to enhance thier RD positions. I strongly suspect you'll run into the same objections

 

[Gecklund]

And? I showed you how he was not. Where was your response? Time to show your work. How was Romanov better? Something concrete, not made up BS about him being “a top prospect”. Thats not even mentioning the fact that I almost assuredly have a better idea about what Romanov was than you do.

you know what man. Let’s ignore the Harris and Barron value because now you’re getting yourself all confused. Because your reasoning was “metrics”

Tell me if situations were reversed: sharks had the 27th overall pick and MTL had the 14th. Would you do 27th, Emberson and Gushchin for 14th

 

[WSS11]

Holy hell, somebody put this thread out of its misery already

 

[Garbageyuk]

you know what man. Let’s ignore the Harris and Barron value because now you’re getting yourself all confused. Because your reasoning was “metrics”

Tell me if situations were reversed: sharks had the 27th overall pick and MTL had the 14th. Would you do 27th, Emberson and Gushchin for 14th

If the Habs desperately needed young NHL D and if those guys have top-4 upside, I’d consider it for sure.

 

[Gecklund]

If the Habs desperately needed young NHL D and if those guys have top-4 upside, I’d consider it for sure.

Okay but Sharks don’t desperately need young NHL D. That’s the issue.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Okay but Sharks don’t desperately need young NHL D. That’s the issue.

Meanwhile your two best D by a mile had 21 and 19 points this year, and your only blue-chip D prospect (if you can even call him that) would be 4-5 for D in the Habs’ pool and projects as a #3-4 on a good team.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Meanwhile your two best D by a mile had 21 and 19 points this year, and your only blue-chip D prospect (if you can even call him that) would be 4-5 for D in the Habs’ pool and projects as a #3-4 on a good team.

I don’t think sj desperately needs 2 d. They need to blow up the whole thing and rebuild and only need players that are corner block potential. Anything that slows the sucking, bottoming out and rebuilding isn’t needed.

 

[Gecklund]

Meanwhile your two best D by a mile had 21 and 19 points this year, and your only blue-chip D prospect (if you can even call him that) would be 4-5 for D in the Habs’ pool and projects as a #3-4 on a good team.

Again Sharks have 4 NHL ready dmen under 23 and Ferraro who is 25. They currently have 10 dmen that should probably be in the NHL signed for next year or likely qualified (so excluding Addison). This is not including any other additions.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I don’t think sj desperately needs 2 d. They need to blow up the whole thing and rebuild and only need players that are corner block potential. Anything that slows the sucking, bottoming out and rebuilding isn’t needed.

No team is going to want to finish last every year. No coach, GM, or group of players would go along with that. They got their big prize. There is going to need to be some kind of progress in the coming seasons, even if it goes from 32nd to say 27th, to 20th.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Again Sharks have 4 NHL ready dmen under 23 and Ferraro who is 25. They currently have 10 dmen that should probably be in the NHL signed for next year or likely qualified (so excluding Addison). This is not including any other additions.

Ok, that’s your opinion. But your whole narrative this whole time was that the proposal was so ridiculous. I don’t think it is. Even the comparable proposal you came up with from the Sharks side isn’t bad, even though you meant it to be. If MTL had 14th and that was offered, I’d definitely consider depending on what needs this hypothetical version of MTL had. Those really aren’t bad players, and neither are the guys I offered. And don’t try to back pedal now; you clearly meant for that offer to be insulting and thought I’d recoil in disgust lol.

 

[Gecklund]

Ok, that’s your opinion. But your whole narrative this whole time was that the proposal was so ridiculous. I don’t think it is. Even the comparable proposal you came up with from the Sharks side isn’t bad, even though you meant it to be. If MTL had 14th and that was offered, I’d definitely consider depending on what needs this hypothetical version of MTL had. Those really aren’t bad players, and neither are the guys I offered. And don’t try to back pedal now; you clearly meant for that offer to be insulting and thought I’d recoil in disgust lol.

That’s every Sharks fan in this thread’s opinion. That it does not fit a need at all. Gushchin and Emberson are not returning 2nds either by the way which is the other thing people are trying to tell you.

 

[Garbageyuk]

That’s every Sharks fan in this thread’s opinion. That it does not fit a need at all. Gushchin and Emberson are not returning 2nds either by the way which is the other thing people are trying to tell you.

Idk, I think this is HF and draft picks are overvalued on here. I don’t know for sure if I’d trade a 2nd for Gushchin, but I’d think long and hard about it. I’d obviously have to do some homework/viewings to say for sure, but a 22 year old nearly p/gp in the AHL small skilled forward? Maybe not the kind of player every team is going to like, but I’d consider taking the gamble, especially when MTL usually has multiple 2nds. I’m assuming the knock on him is size? What else?

 

[Adam da bomb]

No team is going to want to finish last every year. No coach, GM, or group of players would go along with that. They got their big prize. There is going to need to be some kind of progress in the coming seasons, even if it goes from 32nd to say 27th, to 20th.

So make improvements through ufa after all it is California and keep their 1st round picks for home run balls. I mean I think mtl has all the pieces they need to be a playoff team with all their great d, with dach and Suzuki as their top 2 centres, which is a heck of a lot more than mtl yet, they still want to use their pick instead of going for it now, even though it will be 2 or 3 years before that player will be ready for the nhl.
Improving now instead of a slow rebuild, sj would be passing up their chance to get their corner stone player. Their Hughes. I could be wrong but if I just finished near the bottom I’m not rushing it, I’m hoping for gradual growth and hoping a 1st becomes a star.

 

[Gecklund]

Idk, I think this is HF and draft picks are overvalued on here. I don’t know for sure if I’d trade a 2nd for Gushchin, but I’d think long and hard about it. I’d obviously have to do some homework/viewings to say for sure, but a 22 year old nearly p/gp in the AHL small skilled forward? Maybe not the kind of player every team is going to like, but I’d consider taking the gamble, especially when MTL usually has multiple 2nds. I’m assuming the knock on him is size? What else?

Thing with Gushchin is he’s good. Size obviously a knock but also just how it translates to the next level. I think most of us expect like a goodish 3rd liner.

Issue is though does MTL actually need more goodish third liners. For SJ they don’t need more goodish third liners or D that probably max out at that 2nd pair level. They got plenty of those or can pick them up in FA or via trade later on. They are at the point in the rebuild where they need premium assets. While 14th overall isn’t necessarily a premium asset, I think that the chances that an Eiserman for example or very much hopefully one of the 6 D at the top of the draft are top line/top pair players rather than whoever they draft at 27, Harris, Barron, Mesar, etc. I think that’s where our wires are crossed. Sharks are at the point where they have a lot of the quantity. They need the quality.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Thing with Gushchin is he’s good. Size obviously a knock but also just how it translates to the next level. I think most of us expect like a goodish 3rd liner.

Issue is though does MTL actually need more goodish third liners. For SJ they don’t need more goodish third liners or D that probably max out at that 2nd pair level. They got plenty of those or can pick them up in FA or via trade later on. They are at the point in the rebuild where they need premium assets. While 14th overall isn’t necessarily a premium asset, I think that the chances that an Eiserman for example or very much hopefully one of the 6 D at the top of the draft are top line/top pair players rather than whoever they draft at 27, Harris, Barron, Mesar, etc. I think that’s where our wires are crossed. Sharks are at the point where they have a lot of the quantity. They need the quality.

One thing I did forget to mention, that I’m reminded of now is that obviously these kind of deals pretty much only happen on the draft floor. No team is going to trade a lottery pick (I guess it’s not a lottery pick anymore, but w/e) a month before the draft when they don’t know what’s going to be available when it’s time to pick. I guess I should’ve put that in the OP because it’s an important detail.

The top ~15-16 of this draft can go a whole lot of different ways. Sometimes the pick is coming up and all the guys the team really liked are gone, so they decide trading back is the best course. I guess the discussion here was always going to be somewhat limited because we don’t know what is going to happen on the draft floor as far as the whole shake out goes.

 

[themelkman]

You've used "straw man", "Moving goal posts" and "revisionist history" all in one page. You win the ultimate HFboards clique prize of........regurgitating dumb phrases to try and sound smart while supporting your point.

There should be a rule against calling on logical fallacies to justify one

 

[Xirik]

I don’t think sj desperately needs 2 d. They need to blow up the whole thing and rebuild and only need players that are corner block potential. Anything that slows the sucking, bottoming out and rebuilding isn’t needed.

I do think they need to be a better team then this season, They can't develop their rookies well next year if the arena is on fire.

This can be fixed by getting some short term vets that can insulate the young rookies. I don't see them going way up the standings but probably in the 5th overall spot at next years draft.


-Edit guess this was already said. My bad.

 

[Mersss]

I don’t think sj desperately needs 2 d. They need to blow up the whole thing and rebuild and only need players that are corner block potential. Anything that slows the sucking, bottoming out and rebuilding isn’t needed.

Who's going to tell him that SJ can only won the lottery once more in the next 4 years?

 

[Grinner]

Who's going to tell him that SJ can only won the lottery once more in the next 4 years?

Are you sure about that ?

 

[GRANdSharks]

Who's going to tell him that SJ can only won the lottery once more in the next 4 years?

sharks can still win twice in 5 years, that rule applies to advancing position so since the sharks didn't change position they can still win the lottery the max amount of times

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Not enough in the OP. Mesar is the only one in that group that I'd want and I wouldn't trade back to 24-27 for just Mesar. I'd think about that sort of trade back if a 1st next year was involved.

 

[CanadienShark]

Hey @Garbageyuk, you seem to be arguing with nearly everyone here and think that non-Habs fans are being unfair. What do you think of my opinion? I'm very much on both sides here and the Habs fan in me would leap at your proposal, while the Sharks fan in me chuckled at it.