Nashville Predators Hockey Talk 2023-2024 II

[Predsanddead24]

Obviously exceptions exist but by 23 or 24 years old most guys reach their potential. With respect to Fabbro specifically he’s certainly not old but if you look at his draft class it is full of guys who’ve been established in the league for years (and not just the top of the draft players). I think one thing with the overcooking philosophy is that it limits NHL experience for guys who are ready. For example, Novak was an NHL quality player in 21-22 but he ended up getting sent down after he got Covid and didn’t get another shot until a year later. So instead of entering this season with a 100+ NHL games under his belt he was still pretty inexperienced at the NHL level. I feel similar situations have happened with Stastney and Afanasyev this year where they’ve been ready but haven’t got the chance for a call up because we have built up a log jam of players.

As far is this season goes Brunette and Trotz have both talked about wanting to balance player development versus trying to win now. Early on in the season it felt like we were more in the player development side but we’ve since shifted to winning now. It’s certainly hard to argue with that choice given how we’ve played the last two months. Time will tell if the choice to focus on building culture versus give more chances to guys like Tomasino, Parsinnen, Afanasyev, Stastney, etc. was the right choice over the longer term. End of the day for this team to reach contender status we’re going to need to turn our prospect pool into top six forward and top four defense quality players. You can point to Evangelista as evidence Brunette can do that but I’m not completely sold. Again we’ll see in the next few years because we eventually need to turn several prospects into good to great NHL players to be successful. Although if we can hit on veteran FAs like OReilly and Nyquist again maybe we don’t really need prospects anyways.

 

[ShagDaddy]

I read an article/Trotz interview and he said something that really stood out. He was talking with another GM who went through a rebuild and that GM said if he could do anything differently it would be having quality veteran players on the team to help develop the younger guys on the roster. Without the quality veterans on the roster, the young players weren’t able to thrive at the NHL level because they were just trying to survive. None of those talented young players had much if any success in the NHL because of it. It’s hard to really hone your skills or develop when all you can do everyday is keep your head above water and survive the situation.

You can’t expect a rudderless ship to make it to the correct port on time and in good shape.

 

[Softball99]

I read an article/Trotz interview and he said something that really stood out. He was talking with another GM who went through a rebuild and that GM said if he could do anything differently it would be having quality veteran players on the team to help develop the younger guys on the roster. Without the quality veterans on the roster, the young players weren’t able to thrive at the NHL level because they were just trying to survive. None of those talented young players had much if any success in the NHL because of it. It’s hard to really hone your skills or develop when all you can do everyday is keep your head above water and survive the situation.

You can’t expect a rudderless ship to make it to the correct port on time and in good shape.

Found it!
One thing that really resonated was, one general manager who is a good friend, who’s had Stanley Cup teams, fantastic teams, he said to me, “If I had to redo something with my team: I had a number of veteran players, we had moved out all our stars, we were on the downside and we weren’t going to win any more Cups. I got rid of everybody, and we said, ‘We’re going to put all our kids in the NHL and let them develop in the NHL. And the mistake was, instead of the kids developing and starting to thrive over time in the NHL, they were never able to thrive. They were just trying to survive.’ ” And all those prospects that you thought were going to be good players started losing all their confidence and never had NHL careers. The organization became one of the bottom teams, and it’s taken over a decade to bring it back to learning how to win again.



So it was very, very evident to me that I had to have a couple of those players who could allow the young guys to thrive. And to develop. I was very transparent with the fans early in the year. I said, “I don’t know how this is going to end. I don’t know if we’re going to be a good team or a bad team, but we might be sneaky good because our culture’s strong.”

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Found it!
One thing that really resonated was, one general manager who is a good friend, who’s had Stanley Cup teams, fantastic teams, he said to me, “If I had to redo something with my team: I had a number of veteran players, we had moved out all our stars, we were on the downside and we weren’t going to win any more Cups. I got rid of everybody, and we said, ‘We’re going to put all our kids in the NHL and let them develop in the NHL. And the mistake was, instead of the kids developing and starting to thrive over time in the NHL, they were never able to thrive. They were just trying to survive.’ ” And all those prospects that you thought were going to be good players started losing all their confidence and never had NHL careers. The organization became one of the bottom teams, and it’s taken over a decade to bring it back to learning how to win again.



So it was very, very evident to me that I had to have a couple of those players who could allow the young guys to thrive. And to develop. I was very transparent with the fans early in the year. I said, “I don’t know how this is going to end. I don’t know if we’re going to be a good team or a bad team, but we might be sneaky good because our culture’s strong.”

It's having the framework in place to build around so the final product resembles what you had in mind. Building from the ground up with random pieces and parts isn't going to result in a house very often.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

I read an article/Trotz interview and he said something that really stood out. He was talking with another GM who went through a rebuild and that GM said if he could do anything differently it would be having quality veteran players on the team to help develop the younger guys on the roster. Without the quality veterans on the roster, the young players weren’t able to thrive at the NHL level because they were just trying to survive. None of those talented young players had much if any success in the NHL because of it. It’s hard to really hone your skills or develop when all you can do everyday is keep your head above water and survive the situation.

You can’t expect a rudderless ship to make it to the correct port on time and in good shape.

To add to this thought process is how you want to coach/train/teach people. The fact that there was such a high roster turnover and a new coach/system created too many variables for developing players.

When you're teach students or train people for a job you don't jump right in and teach everything all at once, there's a process and you build up to the finished product. This year might have been different if there was an established system that everyone was playing the same way but that's not the case.

This season we saw established players struggle to all get on the same page, including the goalies not playing well. It's no surprise that the team started coming together after inexperienced players were replaced with veteran players. The variables of inexperience and inconsistency were removed allowing the system to be established and played consistently at a high level.

This is why I look forward to next season and think of this season as a foundation. There will be available spots for prospects and there will be a system already in place being played by the remaining veterans. The prospects should be able to emulate the system the veterans are playing while trying to get up to speed at the NHL level.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I totally understand that rationale for bringing in O'Reilly and Nyquist and holding onto McDonagh and I'm guessing that is what the context of that quote was. The thing is we just aren't playing very many young guys at all right now. We have Evangelista and Stastney for players under 25 years old. We're winning now in large part due to several of the historically tweener type players we've decided to go with, but I also feel like some of that success is because we've been willing to continue to give those guys chances that the young guys haven't gotten. For example, Sherwood's performance in December and January would have gotten him sent down had he been waiver eligible, but since he wasn't he got another chance and to his credit he took advantage of it. Similarly, we've given Beauvillier a ton of chances to get going in the lineup since the trade deadline even though he's mostly been bad. Could we have gotten Afanasyev, Tomasino, Parsinnen, or someone else playing well if they'd gotten those chances? No way of knowing for sure.

I can buy the argument that this season is a foundation building season and we'll start to integrate more prospects moving forward, but I'm less confident that is actually what we will do than many of you seem to be.

 

[triggrman]

I think we’ll add a couple young guys each season as they’re ready. Hopefully the tweeners can continue to fill the gaps until they are no longer needed.

I think Schenn is replaceable followed by Fabbro, Carrier and Lauzon. Those are easier spots to fill with the talent we have coming in.

Bevellier will be replaced, hopefully by a young talent, Zucker is likely looking for more so he’s likely gone. Hopefully we have guys like Parssinen and Tomasino ready to replace, if not LHeureux or Svechkov or Kimmel.

I’m seeing what Trotz is doing. He’s replacing players that are ready and not just for the sake of getting younger.

 

[Armourboy]

I totally understand that rationale for bringing in O'Reilly and Nyquist and holding onto McDonagh and I'm guessing that is what the context of that quote was. The thing is we just aren't playing very many young guys at all right now. We have Evangelista and Stastney for players under 25 years old. We're winning now in large part due to several of the historically tweener type players we've decided to go with, but I also feel like some of that success is because we've been willing to continue to give those guys chances that the young guys haven't gotten. For example, Sherwood's performance in December and January would have gotten him sent down had he been waiver eligible, but since he wasn't he got another chance and to his credit he took advantage of it. Similarly, we've given Beauvillier a ton of chances to get going in the lineup since the trade deadline even though he's mostly been bad. Could we have gotten Afanasyev, Tomasino, Parsinnen, or someone else playing well if they'd gotten those chances? No way of knowing for sure.

I can buy the argument that this season is a foundation building season and we'll start to integrate more prospects moving forward, but I'm less confident that is actually what we will do than many of you seem to be.

I tend to agree, I have zero confidence that Trotz won't just go out and get more filler and the prospects are still stuck in Milwaukee next season.

 

[triggrman]

Evangelista, Novak and Stastney all have seemed to force their way into the line-up.

 

[Armourboy]

Evangelista, Novak and Stastney all have seemed to force their way into the line-up.

Novak was already slated for the lineup and Stastney never should have been sent down in the first place. Should have just waived Barrie if they needed the roster spot.

 

[triggrman]

Novak was already slated for the lineup and Stastney never should have been sent down in the first place. Should have just waived Barrie if they needed the roster spot.

Fact remains they all forced their way into the line-up. No one should be just given a spot, all 3 of those guys earned it.

 

[herzausstein]

Fact remains they all forced their way into the line-up. No one should be just given a spot, all 3 of those guys earned it.

I thought stastney deserved an extended look based off his play last season personally. I understand it is a bit of a numbers game though with us having 7 NHL contracted Dmen already and them all being paid more and being more established than him.

But lets be honest... he wouldnt be here right now if it wasnt for injuries. Fabbro got injured. Stastney got the call because well the other option was to play Barrie. Unfortunately, he was injured in the 1st game (then Del Gaizo got called and played well). Either way, if Fabbro never got injured Stastney never wouldve been called up.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

I feel like there are some left over biases being projected onto the new GM and coach by the fan base that are being carried over from the previous GM and coach.

 

[Kat Predator]

I thought stastney deserved an extended look based off his play last season personally. I understand it is a bit of a numbers game though with us having 7 NHL contracted Dmen already and them all being paid more and being more established than him.

But lets be honest... he wouldnt be here right now if it wasnt for injuries. Fabbro got injured. Stastney got the call because well the other option was to play Barrie. Unfortunately, he was injured in the 1st game (then Del Gaizo got called and played well). Either way, if Fabbro never got injured Stastney never wouldve been called up.

I'd add that Novak and Evangelista got the benefit of getting stapled together. They work together well, but that consistency of always being put together is something that clearly never happened with Parssinen, Tomasino, or Glass. Cole Smith on the other hand seems to thrive in the midst of juggling.

 

[darth5]

I am a real Stastney believer now. The guy is a sneaky fast, smooth skater. His instincts are great, too. If I was in management I would trade/let walk Fabbro. I am still not sold on Tomasino. I'll concede his development was hurt by moves last season, but I think it is becuase he has not consistently found the higher gear to be a reliable starter in today's NHL. I might could be convinced otherwise, but that is where I am rn

 

[Softball99]

I'd add that Novak and Evangelista got the benefit of getting stapled together. They work together well, but that consistency of always being put together is something that clearly never happened with Parssinen, Tomasino, or Glass. Cole Smith on the other hand seems to thrive in the midst of juggling.

It did with Tommyboy. Everybody bitched about "he's better than 4th line w/ McCarron, Smith/Sherwood", because their work ethic carried him. Trotz isn't trying to develop bottom 6 players, he's got them signed already. So until you can consistently play in the role you were drafted for, you are in the developement stage. In that interview I think Trotz was talking about Ken Holland. This is an entertaining and win more than lose brand of hockey...I do not care how the mix is age wise, 20 players on the same page and effort level is a product worth selling. I have no desire to go through what Detroit has the last decade.

 

[Predsanddead24]

It seems very obvious to me we give older players the benefit of the doubt over younger players. See us keeping Jankowski in the lineup over Afanasyev during their initial callup, or continuing to give Beauvillier games instead of calling up someone Milwaukee, or playing Barrie/Schenn over Stastney/Fabbro most of the year, or giving Sherwood another shot before someone from Milwaukee. In some cases it's worked out but in others it hasn't, but we also have no idea what happens in the counterfactual where we give the younger guys more benefit of the doubt.

In the end I don't really care how the roster is constructed if we're winning, but if we're going to have one of the oldest rosters in the league that means that we should have the expectation of winning. We've done that recently but the true test of this season is coming up in the playoffs. Longer term we will see how things progress too and hopefully we look back at this season as the building of the foundation that let younger players step in and flourish. But I think there is a decent chance we look back at this as the beginning of us continuing to stay in the mushy middle.

 

[herzausstein]

Thing with Tomasino and Parssinen is they have to go through waives next season. I dont think either make it. Assuming no trades or acquisitions, id like to see something along the lines of

Forsberg ror nyquist
Jankowski Novak Evangelista
Tomasino Parssinen Sissons
Smith McCarron Glass

If Tomasino earns a higher role or Jankowski turns back into a pumpkin adjustments are made. Just basic framework. With a full season of Evangelista and Novak having familiarity with each other adding Tomasino might work out fine.

Also Nyquist is entering the final year of his contract and is quite old... coming off a massive season i wonder if someone might offer us a nice trade for his really friendly contract.

Teams will also be nosing around Saros again. Just alot of uncertainty in the air.

Defensively just to mess with everyone

Mcd josi
Lauzon Stastney
Del gaizo schenn

Fabbro pressbox or traded

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I feel like there are some left over biases being projected onto the new GM and coach by the fan base that are being carried over from the previous GM and coach.

Shit, I think those have carried over from the previous GM and when BARRY was the coach.

 

[weeze]

I am a real Stastney believer now. The guy is a sneaky fast, smooth skater. His instincts are great, too. If I was in management I would trade/let walk Fabbro. I am still not sold on Tomasino. I'll concede his development was hurt by moves last season, but I think it is becuase he has not consistently found the higher gear to be a reliable starter in today's NHL. I might could be convinced otherwise, but that is where I am rn

Why is there only talk about Fabbro? I like his D better than AC's. Also I think Fabbro plays better with Josi. Tomasino kinda reminds me of a Fiala lite type of player. Without the personal baggage. I think he is too small and frail right now. If he could bulk up a little would help his game. He could be a decent snipper that the Preds have a need for.

 

[triggrman]

Thing with Tomasino and Parssinen is they have to go through waives next season. I dont think either make it. Assuming no trades or acquisitions, id like to see something along the lines of

Forsberg ror nyquist
Jankowski Novak Evangelista
Tomasino Parssinen Sissons
Smith McCarron Glass

If Tomasino earns a higher role or Jankowski turns back into a pumpkin adjustments are made. Just basic framework. With a full season of Evangelista and Novak having familiarity with each other adding Tomasino might work out fine.

Also Nyquist is entering the final year of his contract and is quite old... coming off a massive season i wonder if someone might offer us a nice trade for his really friendly contract.

Teams will also be nosing around Saros again. Just alot of uncertainty in the air.

Defensively just to mess with everyone

Mcd josi
Lauzon Stastney
Del gaizo schenn

Fabbro pressbox or traded

I'm interested to see if Molendyk or Livingstone make the roster. From reports, Molendyk would have made it this year but Bruno was talked out of it.

Let's just say he is ready. Can any team boost to have 3 speedier defenders than Stastney, Josi & Molendyk?

 

[herzausstein]

I'm interested to see if Molendyk or Livingstone make the roster. From reports, Molendyk would have made it this year but Bruno was talked out of it.

Really dont want to rush Molendyk but he does seem to be taking the same path Girard did. Just making too good of an impression to be denied a shot. Only thing that may keep him off the team is Trotz liking to cook the prospects a while.

Livingstone i wouldn't mind getting another look at the NHL level personally. Just feel Del Gaizo and Stastney are ahead of him. Interested to see how fast Ufko moves up the ladder.

 

[triggrman]

Really dont want to rush Molendyk but he does seem to be taking the same path Girard did. Just making too good of an impression to be denied a shot. Only thing that may keep him off the team is Trotz liking to cook the prospects a while.

Livingstone i wouldn't mind getting another look at the NHL level personally. Just feel Del Gaizo and Stastney are ahead of him. Interested to see how fast Ufko moves up the ladder.

Livingstone though represents a few things those guys don't; a large frame and right handed shot.

 

[herzausstein]

Livingstone though represents a few things those guys don't; a large frame and right handed shot.

Hadnt thought bout that. He is a rather large guy especially in our prospect pool
Matier is the only other RHD of notable size but he's a couple years behind him developmentally.

Alot of things will depend on what happens with Carrier and if Brunette can come around on Fabbro.

 

[glenngineer]

Hadnt thought bout that. He is a rather large guy especially in our prospect pool
Matier is the only other RHD of notable size but he's a couple years behind him developmentally.

Alot of things will depend on what happens with Carrier and if Brunette can come around on Fabbro.

Prokop says hi