HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[Habs Halifax]

What depth ?

The forward group is full of overpaid and/or suck.

If the Habs are able to sign him, he'd already be ahead of:

Pezzetta, Ylonen, Anderson, Dvorak, anyone in the AHL, RHP. Pearson is gone, too.

Wouldn't be surprised if he goes elsewhere, but there's a lot of deadweight up front.

Roy, Ylonen, Heineman, Farrell, Tuch. Beck and Mesar are on their way.

The Russian UFA has not played in the AHL or NHL and you are already putting him ahead of guys? And I didn't even mentioned the vets.

Sorry, but I think he chooses team with less depth. I stand firm on this.

 

[417]

Why do you believe Guhle doesn't have top pair upside? I mean, just watching him actually play top pair this year should give pause to that belief but let's hear it.

I mean, it depends what kind of top pairing it would be.

If you're expecting Guhle to be the #1 guy PP/PK and put up 60+pts a year. No I don't think he has that offensive potential.

Defensively, I think he does, which is why I think he'd look good on a top pair next to a great offensive Dman where he can hang back a bit and play more of an all-round game.

To me I see Guhle as the Ryan Lindgren to an Adam Fox (if that makes any sense). Though even than, I think Guhle's got more offense in him than Lindgren does.

Hutsons is not as bad defensively as you think he is. He's been holding up his end very good against men in the NCAA and will do so in the NHL. He has one thing Matheson doesn't have: a brain. Don't underestimate the value of hockey IQ and processing power.

I don't think Hutson is bad defensively, to be honest I just haven't seen enough of him to be concrete about that I just think he's always going to have limitations in that area because of his size. I get that not every player is going to defend using his physical gifts, some use their brains and that's where Hutson is likely to have success in.

However, by nature, any Dman who handles the puck as much as he does and will, is going to turn the puck over and to add to that, there are physical confrontations that he's never going to be able to come out on top of.

His best defense in the NHL will likely be spending as little time as possible in his defensive zone when he's out on shifts.

 

[Mrb1p]

I mean, it depends what kind of top pairing it would be.

If you're expecting Guhle to be the #1 guy PP/PK and put up 60+pts a year. No I don't think he has that offensive potential.

Defensively, I think he does, which is why I think he'd look good on a top pair next to a great offensive Dman where he can hang back a bit and play more of an all-round game.

To me I see Guhle as the Ryan Lindgren to an Adam Fox (if that makes any sense). Though even than, I think Guhle's got more offense in him than Lindgren does.



I don't think Hutson is bad defensively, to be honest I just haven't seen enough of him to be concrete about that I just think he's always going to have limitations in that area because of his size. I get that not every player is going to defend using his physical gifts, some use their brains and that's where Hutson is likely to have success in.

However, by nature, any Dman who handles the puck as much as he does and will, is going to turn the puck over and to add to that, there are physical confrontations that he's never going to be able to come out on top of.

His best defense in the NHL will likely be spending as little time as possible in his defensive zone when he's out on shifts.

Guhle produced more points at 5v5 over the last two years than Matheson, and he's also outproduced other stud young Ds like Heiskanen, Sanderson, Seider, etc in their head to head season. Don't let the fact he's not used as a PP player and the fact he's deployed in some of the hardest minutes in the NHL distract you from his offensive potential.

Also, we just saw Matheson produce 67 points, can you really say Guhle has lesser tools than Matheson? He's as good, if not better of a skater, certainly faster, he's bigger, has a much better shot, etc.

I think you are a victim of the same thing a lot of Habs fans are here, that you let the stat page and the reputation of the player dictate your opinion a bit too much. What we saw in the last ~3 years from Guhle is not the potential of an offensively limited defenseman, he grew leaps and bounds from his draft year and he's blossoming into a real f***ing stud D.

Take it from a guy that hated the pick at the time, get hyped he's gonna be great.

Ultimately his offensive production is going to be limited because he's clearly never going to get his shot on the PP (If I was his agent I'd be going ham tbh.) But that doesn't take away from what he'll be able to do at 5v5.

 

[Benstheman]

Guhle produced more points at 5v5 over the last two years than Matheson, and he's also outproduced other stud young Ds like Heiskanen, Sanderson, Seider, etc in their head to head season. Don't let the fact he's not used as a PP player and the fact he's deployed in some of the hardest minutes in the NHL distract you from his offensive potential.

Also, we just saw Matheson produce 67 points, can you really say Guhle has lesser tools than Matheson? He's as good, if not better of a skater, certainly faster, he's bigger, has a much better shot, etc.

I think you are a victim of the same thing a lot of Habs fans are here, that you let the stat page and the reputation of the player dictate your opinion a bit too much. What we saw in the last ~3 years from Guhle is not the potential of an offensively limited defenseman, he grew leaps and bounds from his draft year and he's blossoming into a real f***ing stud D.

Take it from a guy that hated the pick at the time, get hyped he's gonna be great.

Ultimately his offensive production is going to be limited because he's clearly never going to get his shot on the PP (If I was his agent I'd be going ham tbh.) But that doesn't take away from what he'll be able to do at 5v5.

Exactly this. I see him as a 40 pts D without any significant PP time.

 

[417]

Guhle produced more points at 5v5 over the last two years than Matheson, and he's also outproduced other stud young Ds like Heiskanen, Sanderson, Seider, etc in their head to head season. Don't let the fact he's not used as a PP player and the fact he's deployed in some of the hardest minutes in the NHL distract you from his offensive potential.

Maybe...I hope i'm right. I just don't see the high-level offensive instincts.

Also, we just saw Matheson produce 67 points, can you really say Guhle has lesser tools than Matheson? He's as good, if not better of a skater, certainly faster, he's bigger, has a much better shot, etc.

See above, it's the instincts that i'm not sure he has..recognizing when he can jump into the rush, being creating with the puck and while he's an amazing skater, i'm not sure he's as comfortable skating with the puck as Matheson is.

I think you are a victim of the same thing a lot of Habs fans are here, that you let the stat page and the reputation of the player dictate your opinion a bit too much. What we saw in the last ~3 years from Guhle is not the potential of an offensively limited defenseman, he grew leaps and bounds from his draft year and he's blossoming into a real f***ing stud D.

Stats has never been the be all/end all for me...i'm much more of a process over results guy, so no, don't think that's what this is here.

I see Kaiden Guhle like a bigger Dan Hamhuis, who was an excellent Dman for a lot of years, without being top #1 per se.

Maybe if he reaches his ceiling, a Ryan Suter type, which again, is excellent and for many years good enough to be considered a stud #1.

Take it from a guy that hated the pick at the time, get hyped he's gonna be great.

Ultimately his offensive production is going to be limited because he's clearly never going to get his shot on the PP (If I was his agent I'd be going ham tbh.) But that doesn't take away from what he'll be able to do at 5v5.

Hope he proves me wrong but it's like i'm saying he's going to be garbage either, just may not as high on him as you are.

 

[le_sean]

Maybe...I hope i'm right. I just don't see the high-level offensive instincts.

See above, it's the instincts that i'm not sure he has..recognizing when he can jump into the rush, being creating with the puck and while he's an amazing skater, i'm not sure he's as comfortable skating with the puck as Matheson is.


Stats has never been the be all/end all for me...i'm much more of a process over results guy, so no, don't think that's what this is here.

I see Kaiden Guhle like a bigger Dan Hamhuis, who was an excellent Dman for a lot of years, without being top #1 per se.

Maybe if he reaches his ceiling, a Ryan Suter type, which again, is excellent and for many years good enough to be considered a stud #1.

Hope he proves me wrong but it's like i'm saying he's going to be garbage either, just may not as high on him as you are.

I always thought his top potential was Jaccob Slavin. Hamuis is a good one too

 

[417]

I always thought his top potential was Jaccob Slavin. Hamuis is a good one too

Yeah that's another good comp (which I hate doing btw)...

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Roy, Ylonen, Heineman, Farrell, Tuch. Beck and Mesar are on their way.

The Russian UFA has not played in the AHL or NHL and you are already putting him ahead of guys? And I didn't even mentioned the vets.

Sorry, but I think he chooses team with less depth. I stand firm on this.

Heineman is no good. Farrell is trending the same way. Tuch hasn't played in the AHL aside from 2 games. Beck isn't going to make the team and if he does, the team really sucks. Ylonen had his chance and did nothing with it. Mesar needs AHL time, too.

Roy is the only one I'd definitely put ahead, but I'm not even sure how he will be considering he sucked in the AHL after his first month and a half there. When he got sent back he was invisible. He got sent back to help the team potentially make the playoffs and didn't nothing and was pretty much invisible.

Maxim, or some other ufa isn't blocked anyone as it's a 1 year deal for him. If he does well you just got free money. He sucks, you can send him down, waive him, trade him, mutual contract termination, etc.

 

[Habricot]

Exactly this. I see him as a 40 pts D without any significant PP time.

And that to me is a #1 Dmen in this league. I see him as ME Vlasic when he started but with more offensive upside. He is a stud and hope we do not move him. People on this board are putting him as trade bait for just about anything (picks, etc) and think that because a guy is highly ranked in the draft (e.g. Dickinson) that he will necessarily better. Its the difference between tourism and immigration.. one looks a lot sexier then the other; Until you try it for real.

 

[tazsub3]

To me it is simple ,no one gets blocked , if they good enough they make their own room .

Simple as that …

 

[Kosseca]

To me it is simple ,no one gets blocked , if they good enough they make their own room .

Simple as that …

yeah... I have an Anderson, Dvorak and Gally for you to trade.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Roy - Dach - Toffoli
Armia - Newhook - Gallagher
Evans - Dvorak - Monahan

Bringing back Money and Toff will equate to about 10 mil. yearly on the cap. If they can somehow liquedate Gallagher, Armia and Dvorak to bring in March, then we have a playoff team next yr.

 

[sampollock]

Bringing back Money and Toff will equate to about 10 mil. yearly on the cap. If they can somehow liquedate Gallagher, Armia and Dvorak to bring in March, then we have a playoff team next yr.

I feel that ship has sailed

 

[Scriptor]

Heineman is no good. Farrell is trending the same way. Tuch hasn't played in the AHL aside from 2 games. Beck isn't going to make the team and if he does, the team really sucks. Ylonen had his chance and did nothing with it. Mesar needs AHL time, too.

Roy is the only one I'd definitely put ahead, but I'm not even sure how he will be considering he sucked in the AHL after his first month and a half there. When he got sent back he was invisible. He got sent back to help the team potentially make the playoffs and didn't nothing and was pretty much invisible.

Maxim, or some other ufa isn't blocked anyone as it's a 1 year deal for him. If he does well you just got free money. He sucks, you can send him down, waive him, trade him, mutual contract termination, etc.

Roy was injured and sent back to Laval coming off the injury. Your appreciation of the context is zero.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Would you guys do a deal around Texier and Barron? Could be a decent project for MTL, Swiss army knife kind.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Because:

- He’s at his peak value on the market
- He’s at a postion where we have young guys ready to take bigger minutes
- Go get a need with his value

So if his peak value is the 15th packaged with Beck, then you don’t trade him…

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Roy was injured and sent back to Laval coming off the injury. Your appreciation of the context is zero.

That was the 2nd time. The first time he was sent back he also did nothing

 

[austin316]

Not impressed with Necas. I hope we don’t try to trade for him. Not a big game player.

 

[calder candidate]

What would you say if both Monahan and Toffoli are back next year on 2 year deals?

Doesn't this make us a better team with Dach returning? Fit our chase the playoffs strategy but we are not trading and futures to do it?

 

[Miller Time]

Would you guys do a deal around Texier and Barron? Could be a decent project for MTL, Swiss army knife kind.

I'd prefer to see Barron's trade value leveraged in a package for a top 6 caliber fwd...

But if that doesn't materialize, and we still have a logjam at waiver eligible D, that's a deal I'd consider.

Texier could be a nice bottom 6 fit. Good skater, strong defensively and on the PK, good in the shootout... And at 24, still has some untapped upside

 

[calder candidate]

I don’t have any issue with trading Matheson but considering what Kulak, Chiarot, Savard got as rental you would think that people wouldn’t be just willing to move him just to get rid of him… KH need to hold on to him until the overpayment is too crazy to pass, he is in is prime, one of the best skater and contract in the league, he isn’t perfect but people thinking he is just a replacement level player need to start looking at other lineup he is a legit D even before you start accounting for is contract. This reminds me of when Turgeon was traded because we had Koivu and Damphousse, or we let Danault walk because we had Suzuki and KK… To me we need to trade Matheson right now bandwagon is as crazy as the Domi over Danault, or we need to acquire PLD at all cost gang… there is no reason to trade him right now unless we are getting significant overpayment.

 

[Dichow Stopper]

Two options I would try with the Jets pick :

With Struble for Farabee or with Primeau for Askarov

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

I wonder why everyone is putting all there eggs on Dach being our 2nd line center....The guy is one hit away from a career ending injury. You can call his injury a fluke which it was but it was off a nothing hit and he was gone for the whole season. I think we really need a back up plan to Dach being our 2nd line center....

 

[Kimota]

Apparently we are interested in Maxim Tsypalov. According to Friedman, our FO even met with him,

A KHL 6ft3 190lbs KHL winger. Scored 31 goals in 65 games last season.

Might be a good presence on our bottom 6, from the small amount of information i have been able to gather he appears to play physical.

Everytime I hear stuff like this I think of Jiri Sekac. I really thought it was a steal and he was this amazing player.

Why would we need another goalie? Or you mean flip him in a 3 team deal for mid first?

Cause we need a franchise one?

 

[Runner77]

Everytime I hear stuff like this I think of Jiri Sekac. I really thought it was a steal and he was this amazing player.

To be fair, Sekac only began self-destructing when someone on HF nicknamed him “Cakes”.