Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[Satire]

Obvious arms race in the Western Conference - quick someone find Jack Campbell and hit him with a bus.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I mean there isn't a team that wouldn't do this. I really don't get the incessant whining about it. It's not like the player would be thrilled to be shut down for any longer than they would be, it's probably actually really difficult. And then, I'm sure they've got some sort of department to make sure everything's on the up and up with the injury.

Stop complaining about something that anyone could do, and anyone would do if they had the opportunity. Makes you look like a whiner.

 

[RefalancheStillLose]

I don't really see this as an issue but
The easiest fix, is in order to play in the playoffs, all players have to be "activated" off LTIR before the last day of the season with a 20man assembled roster submitted as the PO roster. This roster is not scripture in that these are the only 20 players you can dress but it represents the maximum Game day cap hit that can play.
If that 20man roster is not cap compliant, based on the amount of cap space the team has available on the last day of the season, then whatever player they're activating is inelible.
That number is then used as a bench throughout the PO. and no gameday 20man roster can exceed that value in daily cap hits.
IE
In order for Eichel to play in the PO. Vegas would have to submit a 20 man roster to the NHL on the last day of the season with Eichel on it.
Lets say that roster total is 87m (as the Knights built up 5m in capspace throughout the season).
Then every game day, the 20man roster they assemble cannot exceed the 87m mark.
On the flip side, lets say they only have 87m in total cap space but they need 88m in space for Eichel to be able to "activated"
He is inelible to then play in the PO, or the same amount of salary would need to come out, (say March and Barbashev).
So Vegas could then dress a roster that meets the 87m mark with Eichel, but without 10m from March and Barbashev (or any other 10m combo) or they can dress a roster without Eichel.

But as I said before, it's not really an issue that needs correcting, because there's only been a couple of times where something suspicious happened with it.
Chicago, having Kane practice for weeks but "unhealthy" to return during the regular season (while the team doesn't have the cap space) until he's perfectly healthy game 1 of the PO.
Tampa with Kucherov and same circumstance as Kane. Practicing for weeks but unable to go until 2 days after the regular season ends.
Chicago, Hossa's magically allergy that became so unbearable when his salary dropped to avoid recapture.

Again, people make a bigger deal out of it than it is, partially because they don't understand how the cap actually works and it's easier to scream "cheating" when ever a team legitimate uses LTIR

 

[Vegan Knight]

Vegas really have two out: Eichel and Carrier. Don’t give me no “Dorofeyev is a huge part of our forward group”

Theodore just played in his first game in almost three months.

They have Eichel, Carrier, Dorofeyev and Bjornfot out and they have Denisenko, Morelli and Froese up when they wouldn't be normally.

That's over 2 million in extra cap, hence they would need to put Eichel on LTIR if they are bringing Theodore's 5.2 million back to the roster (he was on LTIR) while still needing those extra three players up and the 2 million extra on the cap for the time being.

That's the only point of putting Eichel on LTIR now even though he's been out for six weeks already. It gives them the room they need now while still being able to activate Eichel whenever he's ready as he's already been out long enough to come back tomorrow if he was ready.

 

[JoVel]

Don't hate the player, hate the game. I hope they do and win the Cup again.

 

[TheBeard]

Theodore just played in his first game in almost three months.

They have Eichel, Carrier, Dorofeyev and Bjornfot out and they have Denisenko, Morelli and Froese up when they wouldn't be normally.

That's over 2 million in extra cap, hence they would need to put Eichel on LTIR if they are bringing Theodore's 5.2 million back to the roster (he was on LTIR) while still needing those extra three players up and the 2 million extra on the cap for the time being.

That's the only point of putting Eichel on LTIR now even though he's been out for six weeks already. It gives them the room they need now while still being able to activate Eichel whenever he's ready as he's already been out long enough to come back tomorrow if he was ready.

Please, bjornfoot played, what, 2 games for them? Right now the team has two legit pieces out: Eichel and Carrier. That’s it. Guys like Denisenko are playing because the team has no depth and their prized prospects like Brisson clearly aren’t NHL material. Demek wasn’t good enough and Howden reverted back to being hot garbage. The reality is Vegas was eventually going to run into depth issues because they needed guys like Cotter and Doro to suddenly be top 6 forwards. I wouldn’t be surprised if Vegas used Eichel’s LTIR space and lack of valuable trade pieces to pick up 2 or 3 bottom 6 vets.

 

[Spargon]

Vegas puts one of their star forwards on LTIR
HF :Meh it's a tactic everyone would use if they could. 3 page thread
Leafs put a broken goalie on LTIR
HF: OMG Leafs are circumventing the cap, fine them they are such cheaters! 50 page thread.

 

[Chips]

It would help if people understood what "circumventing the cap" really means.

Of course it would also help if people realized that if "circumventing the cap" is a thing, it's league-endorsed and it's never doing anything about it beyond a perfunctory no one should do it, we're watching, we're really serious this year statement.

Honestly, I wish the mods would ban this topic unless evidence comes out about a fake injury


It’s so stupid, literally every time a player gets injured and goes on LTIR, if it’s a good team then it’s “cap circumvention”. If it’s a bad team, crickets


Same rules for every team. If a guy gets injured they need to replace him. Some teams would rather their guy keep playing injured if they don’t have anything to replace him.. benefits of being a well run team.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Is he injured?

Of course, he is. He has a knee injury.

 

[Derailed75]

People think the cap exists for a reason other than to insure owner profits. LOL.

The league doesn't care, the NHLPA doesn't care. The only ones who care are fans of the teams that get f***ed in the process.

While we're at it, let's address the fact that teams with no state tax get an extra 4-10% of effective extra cap space. So not only can Las Vegas abuse LTIR, but they also have something like 10-15% more effective cap space than teams in New York due to tax structures. Again, this doesn't really affect owner profits due to revenue sharing so no one cares except the fans whose teams get f***ed over by the situation.

While true its not quiet that drastic. They pay taxes in the state where they play each game so those teams are only state income tax free at home and in other states without income tax, and they have to pay high state income tax when playing in California, New York, ect.

 

[AvroArrow]

The simplest solution is make the cap apply through the playoffs.

It's tough because it's a daily cap hit, IMO we have a few different options, or combinations of options to stop this nonsense

#1 Any player that is on LTIR, that a team expects to have back for the playoffs, must be activated and make the roster cap compliant before the regular season ends

#2 A set amount of time the player must remain on LTIR. For example, if player X is on LTIR when the season ends, he can't be activated for like let's say 30 days

#3 Make LTIR where a player is ruled out for the entire season/playoffs. If you expect the player to come back, he can only be on IR, which counts toward the cap

 

[thaman8765678]

Making room for Hanifin.

 

[Chootoi]

It almost needs a new word. Is it circumvention if the medical issue has been playable for a while, but the timing of going on LTIR is selected just to spend at the deadline, with Eichel returning just in time for the cap to disappear?

Honestly, if the medical issue is real (which it is) then you can't call it circumvention

It’s like precision circumvention - or ‘circumcisi…’ no wait that won’t work.

 

[Chainshot]

They have the ability to backfill within the rules and they do so.

 

[Three On Zero]

They have the ability to backfill within the rules and they do so.

People in here acting like Vegas just took on some big players for the playoffs when in reality they are just moving money around to try and ice a competitive roster through injuries.
Cap circumvention talk should really be saved for teams that are using the LTIR loophole to add players, not the ones currently using LTIR just to ice a roster that’s compliant

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I love seeing GMs do everything in their power to win Cups while playing within the rules that are set by the NHL

 

[hangman005]

People in here acting like Vegas just took on some big players for the playoffs when in reality they are just moving money around to try and ice a competitive roster through injuries

Well a roster anyway, we'll need to start competing for it to be a competitive roster.

 

[Chainshot]

People in here acting like Vegas just took on some big players for the playoffs when in reality they are just moving money around to try and ice a competitive roster through injuries

Until the league changes how they view this, it’s perfectly acceptable. Just look at the available space and how many teams have been running most the entire season in LTIR. I’m not particularly a fan of Vegas or Tampa, but you have to commend their ability to leverage the rules, as written to the benefit of their teams, and the fans of those teams.

Also, sort of lost in this, is that they have to put their number one center on reserve when the top of the west is an absolute dogfight to make sure the first round to match up isn’t with one of the other contenders in the conference. I know you know that is a fan of the Knights, But it’s not like there’s some bonus for pulling one of their best skaters off of the roster, long-term.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I love seeing how mad rival fans get when teams do this... Every contending team would do this if they were put in the same injury situation so stop acting like your team wouldn't too

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Until the league changes how they view this, it’s perfectly acceptable. Just look at the available space and how many teams have been running most the entire season in LTIR I’m not particularly a fan of Vegas or Tampa, but you have to commend their ability to leverage the rules, as written to the benefit of their teams, and the fans of those teams.

Also, sort of lost in this, is that they have to put their number one center on reserve when the top of the west is an absolute dogfight to make sure the first round to match up isn’t with one of the other contenders in the conference. I know you know that is a fan of the Knights, But it’s not like there’s some bonus for pulling one of their best skaters off of the roster, long-term.

I applaud every GM and Owner in the league that does what it takes to win. I know many fans don't have the ability to give credit to other organizations but the way I see it is that players are expected to battle and do everything in their power to win a Cup.... GMs and management should do the exact same thing

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I agree. At a bare minimum if they don’t want to do that then have whomever coming off LTIR can’t play in the first round. Suddenly these “injuries” won’t seem so serious

just make LTIR players ineligible for playoffs entirely, then it will only be used for truly serious long term injuries. not a fan of a team getting extra cap space just because a player gets hurt.

 

[Sentinel]

Good for them. If it's not specifically prohibited, it is allowed.

 

[andora]

This. Well, make the cap count through the playoffs sounds so incredibly simple, and it's not. It's so not. And I say this knowing I've come up with easily a dozen ways to try and make a cap work in the playoffs and then picked every one of them apart with pretty simple examples of why it still fails, and here's 43 steps you have to go through to make the cap apply in the postseason correctly is not going to be a solution the league trots out.

This simplest explanation really is: if the league cared, it could have done something - even something shitty, like it's done with other problems that created more problems that people are still trying to "fix" with shitty non-solutions - long ago. It doesn't care, so bitching about what it's not going to do is a waste of time and energy.

Why cant it?

 

[nofehr]

It's tough because it's a daily cap hit, IMO we have a few different options, or combinations of options to stop this nonsense

#1 Any player that is on LTIR, that a team expects to have back for the playoffs, must be activated and make the roster cap compliant before the regular season ends

#2 A set amount of time the player must remain on LTIR. For example, if player X is on LTIR when the season ends, he can't be activated for like let's say 30 days

#3 Make LTIR where a player is ruled out for the entire season/playoffs. If you expect the player to come back, he can only be on IR, which counts toward the cap

There's no need to make it complicated by calculating a daily cap hit. Just reset the playoff cap to whatever the cap is for the year for all teams. While a team collectively might have a higher AAV than the cap, you can only ice a roster that has a max AAV of $83.5 million.
I'm sure there's a downside to this but I can't think of one at the moment lol.

 

[rojac]

Or get rid of the hard cap and have a luxury tax like in other pro leagues?

Or if the hard cap is making the NHL unenjoyable for someone, that someone should probably consider moving on and doing something enjoyable with their time.