Wes Clark

WaffleEraLeafFan

Registered User
Apr 14, 2023
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I think it's only a matter of time until Clark joins Dubas in Pittsburgh.
Those were a couple pretty big reaches he made. Takes some real balls to do that twice. Makes me think Clark is just another executive with a "smartest guy in the room" attitude.

Because trying to beat the market is usually a fools game.

I believe in the free market. And the NHL draft is as laissez-faire as it gets. Minten and Cowen weren't undervalued.

They were drafted at the exact place they should have been drafted.

At the point when someone was willing to draft them. In this case, Wesley Clark. We'll see soon enough if Clark is the Warren Buffet of the NHL draft I guess.

If he's still with this team, or not, is another question altogether.
Take this with a grain of salt, but this is totally who he is. I was in law school doing a hockey arbitration moot, and Wes was a guest judge. Guy was a complete a hole. His whole demeanor was very off-putting
 

banks

Only got 3 of 16.
Aug 29, 2019
3,491
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It's hard to judge any draft choices this early. But I feel like the last 2 drafts didn't go the way I'd like.
 

nuck

Schrodingers Cat
Aug 18, 2005
11,469
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Yes its too early to evaluate but this years #1 choice is all him. He bypassed a number of players that were on many draft lists as likely 1st rounders all year for one he felt was a late riser. An OHA guy so someone he had probably seen a lot of in contrast to a western guy like Minten and his area scout would have been probably been pushing this as well. No input from the GM so I expect this is his clear personal BPA which probably doesn't happen much with 1st rounders. Hope he's got the shine.
 

notbias

Registered User
Feb 16, 2017
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It's hard to judge any draft choices this early. But I feel like the last 2 drafts didn't go the way I'd like.

We may have gotten the biggest riser of last year...

A little early to judge in general, but rooking of the year in the KHL is not a bad 5th rounder.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
79,441
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I think it's only a matter of time until Clark joins Dubas in Pittsburgh.

Those were a couple pretty big reaches he made. Takes some real balls to do that twice. Makes me think Clark is just another executive with a "smartest guy in the room" attitude.

Because trying to beat the market is usually a fools game.

I believe in the free market. And the NHL draft is as laissez-faire as it gets. Minten and Cowen weren't undervalued.

They were drafted at the exact place they should have been drafted.

At the point when someone was willing to draft them. In this case, Wesley Clark. We'll see soon enough if Clark is the Warren Buffet of the NHL draft I guess.

If he's still with this team, or not, is another question altogether.

From a pick perspective, I like Easton Cowan quite a bit more than Fraser Minten...

will Minten even give us Freddy the Goat level NHL work?
 

DuklaNation

Registered User
Aug 26, 2004
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He mentions intelligence and competitiveness as the first 2 traits. I'd fire this guy. Doesn't impress in this short interview and the answers he gives the media are just blanket standard statements. Why keep him? Any Dubas holdover who doesn't have a stellar record should hit the bricks.
 

PromisedLand

I need more FOOD
Dec 3, 2016
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Hogwarts
Lol is this actually true?

Yup.

Apparently Clark and Tavares are tight.

In 2011, Tavares described his relationship with Clark:

“I first met Wes when I started training with his father Richard and at the time I looked up to him because of his work ethic and dedication on the ice. But now as I’ve gotten older he’s become a great friend of mine and has helped me push myself to new limits. I always ask him for advice and respect his opinions. Wes has been a mentor for me off the ice and has always been there when I needed his time and effort. I know what the Greyhounds mean to Sault Ste. Marie and Wes will do a fantastic job representing the organization as Director of Player Development.”
Clark named Hounds Director of Player Development – Soo Greyhounds



1689799166012.png



My reading of the situation is that Clark is mostly the result of "Nepotism" instead of "competence"
 
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TMLBlueandWhite

Registered User
Feb 2, 2023
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From a pick perspective, I like Easton Cowan quite a bit more than Fraser Minten...

will Minten even give us Freddy the Goat level NHL work?

Thanks for the response.

If you're gonna reach, reach for the stars.

I don't follow prospects at all, so I don't know anything about these guys other than what I've read. The scouting reports I've read on both these guys seem to place them as middle six forwards at best. They don't have the high upside potential a guy like DeBrincat had. So either Clark has a much higher opinion on these guys than most other scouts/analysts.

Or he's drafting guys whose potential is that of someone they can find in free agency every year.
 

TMLBlueandWhite

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Feb 2, 2023
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When you draft a middle six forward you get them for much cheaper than you do in free agency.

Thanks for the response.

I agree there's nothing wrong with drafting middle six players. It's the best way to fill in the roster. But there's always lots of guys with that type of potential in every round of the draft.

If they're gonna reach and take a guy way earlier than his consensus draft position, they should go for a guy with higher potential to be a star, like they did with Robertson.

Not a guy who might be the next Kerfoot.

If that even.
 

Gabriel426

Registered User
Jun 30, 2015
17,144
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Great pick up there. When I saw the name my brain actually went to General Clark immediately, and I thought what the hey, is a US general being hired by the team, maybe to instill some toughness, a little discipline and a killer instinct perhaps, and then I thought no way toughness and killer instinct?
That Wes Clark also ran for US president but dropped out after a few months.
 

justashadowof

Registered User
Aug 15, 2020
4,025
4,229
I think it's only a matter of time until Clark joins Dubas in Pittsburgh.

Those were a couple pretty big reaches he made. Takes some real balls to do that twice. Makes me think Clark is just another executive with a "smartest guy in the room" attitude.

Because trying to beat the market is usually a fools game.

I believe in the free market. And the NHL draft is as laissez-faire as it gets. Minten and Cowen weren't undervalued.

They were drafted at the exact place they should have been drafted.

At the point when someone was willing to draft them. In this case, Wesley Clark. We'll see soon enough if Clark is the Warren Buffet of the NHL draft I guess.

If he's still with this team, or not, is another question altogether.
Not some condemnation of your post in any way but there are few interesting thoughts in it to play off:

I think it's only a matter of time until Clark joins Dubas in Pittsburgh.
I agree with this. Brad Treliving is just managing currently as a conciliator between old and new who is temporarily working with the front office he inherited. Most of the Dubas hires will leave within the next calendar year as their roles in the organization are diminished if not eliminated. Some who aren't particularly ambitious could lump it and get bumped down to scouting and/or some glorified clerical work.

Makes me think Clark is just another executive with a "smartest guy in the room" attitude.
From limited exposure to the guy, he seems like might actually be the smartest guy in many rooms but he'll never be the most socially smooth guy in any room. From his social media, he seems more interested in basketball and tennis than hockey. I thought that was weird. That seems to be spreading someone's butter a little to thin when the road to excellence in most fields is usually an obsession with that field.

Because trying to beat the market is usually a fools game.
I agree it's a fool's game for anyone other than insiders and someone who has figured out a temporary strategic advantage. I don't know why this guy would have that advantage. The team's previous strategy of over-sampling undervalued small talented players was a colossal bust with zero home runs to date.

Minten and Cowen weren't undervalued.
Calling them undervalued is like marketing spin. What is an organization supposed to do when asked about its draft picks? Say that every earmarked player on their pre-draft list was already gone at their draft position?
 
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TMLBlueandWhite

Registered User
Feb 2, 2023
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Not some condemnation of your post in any way but there are few interesting thoughts in it to play off:

I think it's only a matter of time until Clark joins Dubas in Pittsburgh.
I agree with this. Brad Treliving is just managing currently as a conciliator between old and new who is temporarily working with the front office he inherited. Most of the Dubas hires will leave within the next calendar year as their roles in the organization are diminished if not eliminated. Some who aren't particularly ambitious could lump it and get bumped down to scouting and/or some glorified clerical work.

Makes me think Clark is just another executive with a "smartest guy in the room" attitude.
From limited exposure to the guy, he seems like might actually be the smartest guy in many rooms but he'll never be the most socially smooth guy in any room. From his social media, he seems more interested in basketball and tennis than hockey. I thought that was weird. That seems to be spreading someone's butter a little to thin when the road to excellence in most fields is usually an obsession with that field.

Because trying to beat the market is usually a fools game.
I agree it's a fool's game for anyone other than insiders and someone who has figured out a temporary strategic advantage. I don't know why this guy would have that advantage. The team's previous strategy of over-sampling undervalued small talented players was a colossal bust with zero home runs to date.

Minten and Cowen weren't undervalued.
Calling them undervalued is like marketing spin. What is an organization supposed to do when asked about its draft picks? Say that every earmarked player on their pre-draft list was already gone at their draft position?

Thanks for the response.

He hasn't had a lot to work with yet, so it's hard to say exactly what Clark's strategy is/will be, but I have a sneaky suspicion it will be similar to what we saw under Dubas.

A focus on scoring forwards in the first couple rounds. Then defensemen and goaltenders in the middle and later rounds. They don't draft for position, and focus on hockey IQ and skill over size and other intangibles.

I'm not sure how much I agree with this philosophy, especially since their top prospects continue to get injured.

Looking at Treliving's draft history and you can see the difference in the later rounds. Treliving looks like he takes BPA in the first couple rounds and then tends to focus on guys with size after. Dubas, of course, pretty much just drafted smaller guys regardless of round.

Clark's ass is grass and Treliving's the lawnmower.

It's only a matter of time before Treliving brings in his own scouts. I'm not sure about Mann, but if he isn't guilty of leaking documents to his brother, he might be an option. If you look at Ottawa's drafting the last five years and compare it to the Leafs the difference is startling.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Leafs drafting a few more big bodies again too.
 

TMLBlueandWhite

Registered User
Feb 2, 2023
1,396
1,458
I think it's only a matter of time until Clark joins Dubas in Pittsburgh.

Take this with a grain of salt, but this is totally who he is. I was in law school doing a hockey arbitration moot, and Wes was a guest judge. Guy was a complete a hole. His whole demeanor was very off-putting

Thanks for the response.

Without ever meeting any of them, I kinda think a lot of people Dubas employed have that same attitude. And when they all get together in the same room, they all think it's the smartest room in the building. And that building is the smartest building in the world.

All those big brains and they still haven't figured out smaller players get hurt more.
 

acrobaticgoalie

Registered User
Jun 18, 2014
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Minten is 6'2"

Cowan is currently 5'11", but as I mentioned in my post he wears a size 13 skate, when the rest of him catches up I think he'll top out somewhere in the 6'3" range
Plus Malinoski is 6'1, Chadwick is 6'4 from this draft. He also took Grebenkin who is 6'2 from last year's draft. 5 of the last 8 picks are 6'1 or bigger
 

nuck

Schrodingers Cat
Aug 18, 2005
11,469
2,540
Minten is 6'2"

Cowan is currently 5'11", but as I mentioned in my post he wears a size 13 skate, when the rest of him catches up I think he'll top out somewhere in the 6'3" range
I think he meant the Leafs haven't spent theirs 1sts on bigger players in a while (when they have had the 1sts) A Leaf trend, not necessarily a Clark trend.

I'm not sure about Cowan's size. People do tend to grow to match their feet but not always and at 18+ he is running out of time for that big growth spurt. In the pictures he has kind of narrow shoulders and a head the size of a grapefruit so he could just have big feet. Like a reverse Pronger:)

If he gets another inch or so I would be happy but with scouting comments like constant motor, digs in the corners, wins puck battles he doesn't need much more size to be effective, just strength. His combine measurements were 5 10.5 and 170lbs with really low body fat and tops in pro agility. I am betting he is effective whether he grows taller or not. Really need that scoring to be more than a hot playoff though.
 
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