Player Discussion Evan Bouchard

[bobbythebrain]

Actually "trolling" is purposely stating something provocative or factually incorrect to get a desired response.
Some examples would be....
- claiming that a single mistake on a tying goal is the sole reason we may lose the series.
-Saying he's not elite despite becoming the 2nd best NHL defenseman in playoff production in NHL history.
-Saying a player with 80 seasonal points and 20 playoff points has "low hockey IQ"
-using a betting site to make an argument

Using humor and memes while simultaneously backing it up with FACTS is NOT trolling.


Just another incorrect post.

Also, posters who actually take the time to be honest and apply logic and facts to their posts....aren't usually at the recieving end of those memes.
Pretty obvious stuff here you'd think

 

[Tobias Kahun]

So let me get this right?

He had a giveaway in the LA series for a goal against(although anyone with a brain can see that was on Foegle)

He had a terrible night against Van in game 5 that he totally was at fault for a GA. A bunch of other bad plays too but the entire team played like poo and the giveaway was only a tying goal.

The rest of the playoffs he is decimating in production stats, setting records, and his defensive stats are elite too

Yet you have 3 posters who are determined to isolate about 7-8ish plays in an entire 2 series filled with dozens upon dozens of good to elite level plays to say he is a detriment to this team. Or he is mediocre. Or he is overrated.

Do I have that correct?

Some ppl really shouldn't be allowed to post as, to quote them specifically" they have low hockey IQ" when it comes to this stuff

Imagine how they’d lose their minds if they saw Bouchard get walked by Dylan Holloway like Hughes did.

Atleast shittyshoes confirms that Hughes isn’t elite.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

He just set an NHL record. There is no debate here.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Watching shattenshoes act like an oilers fan while also liking posts that contain “Except for the part where Edmonton gets clapped by whoever wins the central” is comical.

Pretty much exposed, also has a stroke anytime Bouchard is mentioned in good standing

 

[guymez]

Actually it's the opposite. Trolling is Bobbythebrain posting stupid memes, pics, chirping instead of having an actual discussion and defending why Bouchard should define all odds and be in the Smythe convo.

We're defending the fact that Bouchard is not Elite, and that is a fair discussion point. Go watch a game live and follow his shifts away from the puck on his side of the red line. There is a lot left to be desired from an "elite defensemen"


Evan Bouchard has been fantastic for most of these playoffs. He's stepped up huge. He had an outstanding game 7, but he needs to keep this up. We need a bigger sample size from him. As Drai said "this next series is going to be a man's series" Let's see how Bouchard does.

For me Bouchard is elite offensively. I dont think that there is any way to argue against that.
The question IMO is Bouchard an elite all around dman?
I think that he is headed in that direction. Like you I want to see more of the same defensively from Bouchard. I want to see the sample size expand and if possible I would like to see how he does away from Ekholm.
If that invites a barage of overtly emotional posts then so be it.
Its not an unreasonable take.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Hmmmm. I'm confused here. A poster is claiming that ppl citing offensive and defensive stats is "over emotional"

Wouldn't "over emotional " be isolating and highlighting a few bad plays over thousands of good ones?

Since Knobby took over Bouchard has been top notch as a whole.Thats a pretty long sample size. You'd have to think "over emotional" would be characterized by ignoring that and hyper focusing only on the mistakes. No?

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Hmmmm. I'm confused here. A poster is claiming that ppl citing offensive and defensive stats is "over emotional"

Wouldn't "over emotional " be isolating and highlighting a few bad plays over thousands of good ones?

Since Knobby took over Bouchard has been top notch as a whole.Thats a pretty long sample size. You'd have to think "over emotional" would be characterized by ignoring that and hyper focusing only on the mistakes. No?

Emotional are some of you posters (small amount) here. Blocking people, telling me to get out of here, posting a screen shot of my personal DM, telling me I have voices in my head when I'm actually correct. Some of you guys thought Skinner would never see the ice again and couldn't handle the truth. That is being overly emotional.

Were trying to tell you that Bouchard is not elite in his own zone, have a discussion about it and people here get overly emotional about that.

We're having a discussion and It's turning out like cult where you can't point out negatives or deficiencies.

 

[oXo Cube]

Guy is a case study on how difficult it is for the average person to ever admit they were wrong about anything.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Emotional are some of you posters (small amount) here. Blocking people, telling me to get out of here, posting a screen shot of my personal DM, telling me I have voices in my head when I'm actually correct. Some of you guys thought Skinner would never see the ice again and couldn't handle the truth. That is being overly emotional.

Were trying to tell you that Bouchard is not elite in his own zone, have a discussion about it and people here get overly emotional about that.

We're having a discussion and It's turning out like cult where you can't point out negatives or deficiencies.

Who says he’s not elite in his own zone? Your biased eye test? Because the analytics and numbers show he’s an Elite NHL Defenseman

And it’s not a cult, we’re just pointing out your stupid observations.

When you only focus on the negative, that’s all you’ll end up seeing and you miss 95% of his game

 

[CornKicker]

bouchard makes elite breakout passes under pressure all game long. its almost pronger like the way he effortlessly moves the puck up ice. im not saying is pronger because he isnt nasty and physical but he uses his body in his zone and contains well. He has a fantastic stick and breaks up plays consistently. offensively he is top tier no question. to down play his defensive side is just erogenous.

 

[Canovin]

bouchard makes elite breakout passes under pressure all game long. its almost pronger like the way he effortlessly moves the puck up ice. im not saying is pronger because he isnt nasty and physical but he uses his body in his zone and contains well. He has a fantastic stick and breaks up plays consistently. offensively he is top tier no question. to down play his defensive side is just erogenous.

We do have Pronger on the team. In comes in the form of combining Ekholm, Nurse and Bouchard together

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Guy is a case study on how difficult it is for the average person to ever admit they were wrong about anything.

I admitted I was wrong about the Drai and Holloway line combination. I admitted I was wrong about playing Mcdrai together.

What about everyone that didn’t admit that Bouchard was the worst player on the ice in game 5, that didn't admit he cost us what mathematically was the most important game of the season at that point in time.

I'll hold my stance that Bouchard is not elite defensively. It's not unreasonable to have that take.

 

[TheNumber4]

Could this be the best prospect development path the Oilers have ever had?

Don’t think Bouchard could have asked for better organizational support and a better path to success.

Brought along slowly so he can work his deficiencies and not be given too much responsibility right off the bat. Then you have guys like Duncan Kieth, Tyson Barrie, Mattie Ekholm, Paul Coffey all playing a part in mentorship and development. And there’s no better way for Bouch to reach his full potential than on a team with McDrai and this elite PP.

 

[guymez]

Could this be the best prospect development path the Oilers have ever had?

Don’t think Bouchard could have asked for better organizational support and a better path to success.

Brought along slowly so he can work his deficiencies and not be given too much responsibility right off the bat. Then you have guys like Duncan Kieth, Tyson Barrie, Mattie Ekholm, Paul Coffey all playing a part in mentorship and development. And there’s no better way for Bouch to reach his full potential than on a team with McDrai and this elite PP.

The Keith/Bouchard pairing was not very effective.
I think that Ekholm played a much much bigger part in Bouchards development than Keith or Barrie.
Coffey has helped too...no doubt about that but I just dont see the same development curve for Bouchard without Ekholm.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Bouchard has upped his game big time. Impressive performance and I’m glad Holland didn’t listen to me and trade him!!!!!

 

[TheNumber4]

The Keith/Bouchard pairing was not very effective.
I think that Ekholm played a much much bigger part in Bouchards development than Keith or Barrie.
Coffey has helped too...no doubt about that but I just dont see the same development curve for Bouchard without Ekholm.

It wasn’t. But it did have its moments. Particularly working the blue line, that pairing really got Bouch more involved in that front. Ekholm I agree probably had more impact but I don’t doubt Bouchard learned lots of lessons from Kieth, maybe just mindset and off ice work ethic if they didn’t knock it out of the park on ice.

 

[brentashton]

Guy is a case study on how difficult it is for the average person to ever admit they were wrong about anything.

It’s a case study on a few things. Most of us can see what they are. Unfortunately his mirror must be broken.

 

[Aerchon]

Actually "trolling" is purposely stating something provocative or factually incorrect to get a desired response.
Some examples would be....
- claiming that a single mistake on a tying goal is the sole reason we may lose the series.
-Saying he's not elite despite becoming the 2nd best NHL defenseman in playoff production in NHL history.
-Saying a player with 80 seasonal points and 20 playoff points has "low hockey IQ"
-using a betting site to make an argument

Using humor and memes while simultaneously backing it up with FACTS is NOT trolling.


Just another incorrect post.

Also, posters who actually take the time to be honest and apply logic and facts to their posts....aren't usually at the recieving end of those memes.
Pretty obvious stuff here you'd think

Guy is a case study on how difficult it is for the average person to ever admit they were wrong about anything.

Two great posts.

To some I am sure it seems like we are debating or splitting hairs on how good Bouchard has been these playoffs but in reality the facts are overwhelming.

Its literally trying to spin a false narrative with the hopes that down the road Bouchard will regress (like many great/elite defensemen do throughout their career and game to game even) and then they can come back to shrill "look, I told you he was always shit and now I have the proof"...

No. Bad take. 2 rounds, 12 playoff games are in the books. Bouchard was elite in both series as well as having an outstanding regular season. That is a relatively big sample size, 94 games this year. Most defensemen don't even get 12 games a year in the playoffs. Hopefully he can keep it up, but if he doesn't, that does not change the facts/history of the situation to date.

Look at playoff performances from year to year to get some perspective. You have many hero's one year, zeroes the next, all just part of the game.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Oh look. Sportsnet just posted their Conn Smythe favorites. They listed Leon as the clear favorite and among the rest, players like McDavid, Johnston, Barkov, Shesterkin and BOUCHARD were named, each with valid points as to why. I believe I was blasted many a time for this exact same list just a few days ago.

I really want to mock someone right now but honestly, it's proved futile. What did Napolean say?...."When your enemy is making themselves look silly, don't interrupt them when they are trolling".

I think that's how it went anyway

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

It wasn’t. But it did have its moments. Particularly working the blue line, that pairing really got Bouch more involved in that front. Ekholm I agree probably had more impact but I don’t doubt Bouchard learned lots of lessons from Kieth, maybe just mindset and off ice work ethic if they didn’t knock it out of the park on ice.

Duncan Keith and Paul Coffey are insane mentors to have for a developing dman like Bouchard. They have basically handled him perfectly.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Duncan Keith and Paul Coffey are insane mentors to have for a developing dman like Bouchard. They have basically handled him perfectly.

That Ekholm guy is alright too!

 

[Fishy McScales]

I admitted I was wrong about the Drai and Holloway line combination. I admitted I was wrong about playing Mcdrai together.

What about everyone that didn’t admit that Bouchard was the worst player on the ice in game 5, that didn't admit he cost us what mathematically was the most important game of the season at that point in time.

I'll hold my stance that Bouchard is not elite defensively. It's not unreasonable to have that take.

That's not nearly the same as laughing at and ridiculing a player, calling him an ECHL defenseman and then having to own up.

Not saying you called him those things (maybe you did, I dunno) but a lot of posters have done exactly that on HF and the reaction is typically to double down when confronted with cognitive dissonance.

 

[Broberg Speed]

The Keith/Bouchard pairing was not very effective.
I think that Ekholm played a much much bigger part in Bouchards development than Keith or Barrie.
Coffey has helped too...no doubt about that but I just dont see the same development curve for Bouchard without Ekholm.

Keith exhibited some breakout passing ability high on the wall that was really adept. Can't say I've ever seen Bouchard try it. Keith was starting quick three way bump plays that were highly skilled and effective to navigate through the neutral zone.

Bouchard probably didn't have the confidence at the time to try high skilled passing that close to his own blue line because that's where turnovers that cost you take place.

Thank God for critique.

That Ekholm guy is alright too!

Bouchard really took off after the Ekholm acquisition. They don't have that much similarities to their games, rather they compliment each other. Both use quick outlets to each other or the winger, or forward that makes themselves available for a pass, when the pressure is on.

They can both do bullet passing for breakouts but Boucard does it much more often but we've seen some real beauties from Ekholm for primary and secondary assists from below the hash marks.

Bouchard's apparent old man strength was never shown before Ekholm arrived. Grappling, like Judo, has been demonstrated multiple times during skirmishes and battles for positioning.

Oh look. Sportsnet just posted their Conn Smythe favorites. They listed Leon as the clear favorite and among the rest, players like McDavid, Johnston, Barkov, Shesterkin and BOUCHARD were named, each with valid points as to why. I believe I was blasted many a time for this exact same list just a few days ago.

I really want to mock someone right now but honestly, it's proved futile. What did Napolean say?...."When your enemy is making themselves look silly, don't interrupt them when they are trolling".

I think that's how it went anyway

It's a cake bobby!

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

That's not nearly the same as laughing at and ridiculing a player, calling him an ECHL defenseman and then having to own up.

Not saying you called him those things (maybe you did, I dunno) but a lot of posters have done exactly that on HF and the reaction is typically to double down when confronted with cognitive dissonance.

That's the thing. I've said he's good not elite. I'm defending the fact he's not an elite player in this league, I'm defending the fact he won't win the Smythe.

And as you said other posters get overly emotional and act like I'm saying he's an ECHL defenseman. I like Bouchard.

 

[McDNicks17]

That's the thing. I've said he's good not elite. I'm defending the fact he's not an elite player in this league, I'm defending the fact he won't win the Smythe.

And as you said other posters get overly emotional and act like I'm saying he's an ECHL defenseman. I like Bouchard.

That isn't a fact though.

The guy just had the highest scoring first two rounds of any defenseman in the history of the league. If those aren't elite results, I don't know what is.