GDT: 2023-24 Other Games Around The League

OrrNumber4

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Jul 25, 2002
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Which is funny because Matthews isn’t a McDavid or MacKinnon that can create something on his own.

Leafs fans have all their excuses now with him out and Nylander missing the first three games.
When you have a 60+ goal-scorer, it's not unreasonable to lean on him to provide some timely goals. But fundamentally Matthews is not reliable in the playoffs, so in many ways having him is worse than not having him. The misplaced expectations cause problems throughout the lineup.

With all the bounces Toronto has been getting, it'd be a shame if they lost this game.
 

Juxtaposer

Outro: Divina Comedia
Dec 21, 2009
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Which is funny because Matthews isn’t a McDavid or MacKinnon that can create something on his own.

Leafs fans have all their excuses now with him out and Nylander missing the first three games.
The Leafs are quite literally living the Thornton-era Sharks teams except with not making it out of the first round instead of generic “couldn’t get it done (what It means is nebulous”) so it’s even worse. Every year there’s some excuse for why the Leafs couldn’t win, like injuries or that they were the underdogs, actually. And they’re legit excuses. But the problem is that history isn’t going to look at the different excuses for each year they didn’t get it done, it’s just going to show that they didn’t get it done.

Winning the Cup is hard. Or, getting out of the first round is hard*.

*if you’re the Toronto Maple Leafs
 

Levie

Registered User
Mar 15, 2011
14,606
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The NHL should implement AI goalies. Remove actual goalies from the game. Too many times a backup or 2nd backup gets hot and goes on a run. Teams should just allot their goalie salary amount to training their goaltenders models. Whoever spends the most on their model gets better performance and all is fair.
 
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OrrNumber4

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Jul 25, 2002
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You have to wonder if Winnipeg keeps Hellebuyck. In the modern NHL, Vezina-caliber goaltending can't be a critical, foundational piece.
 

coooldude

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Jul 25, 2007
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Isn’t that good ole Tim Burke? Or was DWJr technically running that one?
If we're gonna be fair, it was whoever f'd it up at SJS, but also literally every other pick other than McJesus, including Eichel and Marner.

People don't realize just how good Rantanen is. He could go 2OA in a redraft. I certainly would take him over Marner and arguably Eichel.

 

OrrNumber4

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Jul 25, 2002
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If we're gonna be fair, it was whoever f'd it up at SJS, but also literally every other pick other than McJesus, including Eichel and Marner.

People don't realize just how good Rantanen is. He could go 2OA in a redraft. I certainly would take him over Marner and arguably Eichel.

Don't get me wrong; I really like Rantanen. But, he's in a very unique situation; he's the Milan Hedjuk of his time. Makar and MacKinnon do all the heavy lifting and get the tough assignments, giving Rantanen the room to excel in. Given the opportunity, could he thrive? Possibly. But Eichel was the best player on a cup-winning team.

In any case, despite his struggles I'll maintain that the real miss of that draft was not taking Barzal. Just based on positions alone...of course, Aho was also available in that draft, and IIRC he was not a first rounder...
 
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Chinaski89

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May 17, 2019
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When you have a 60+ goal-scorer, it's not unreasonable to lean on him to provide some timely goals. But fundamentally Matthews is not reliable in the playoffs, so in many ways having him is worse than not having him. The misplaced expectations cause problems throughout the lineup.

With all the bounces Toronto has been getting, it'd be a shame if they lost this game.
Matthews is basically the goal-scoring version of Thornton. Dominant in the regular season at his speciality and subpar as hell when defenses get tighter in the playoffs.
 

coooldude

Registered User
Jul 25, 2007
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Don't get me wrong; I really like Rantanen. But, he's in a very unique situation; he's the Milan Hedjuk of his time. Makar and MacKinnon do all the heavy lifting and get the tough assignments, giving Rantanen the room to excel in. Given the opportunity, could he thrive? Possibly. But Eichel was the best player on a cup-winning team.

In any case, despite his struggles I'll maintain that the real miss of that draft was not taking Barzal. Just based on positions alone...of course, Aho was also available in that draft, and IIRC he was not a first rounder...
I'm sorry, but this is very wrong. I can say this definitively as I live in Denver and pay close attention to the Avs, and the stats (counting and advanced) will also tell you the same. Rantanen is an elite power forward. Rantanen many games drives the play on whatever line he's on. He's incredibly skilled and powerful, and incredibly undervalued on these boards.
 

OrrNumber4

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Jul 25, 2002
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I'm sorry, but this is very wrong. I can say this definitively as I live in Denver and pay close attention to the Avs, and the stats (counting and advanced) will also tell you the same. Rantanen is an elite power forward. Rantanen many games drives the play on whatever line he's on. He's incredibly skilled and powerful, and incredibly undervalued on these boards.
I can't claim to have lived in Denver:rolleyes:, but I've watched practically every Avalanche playoff game in their history, and while Rantanen is a great player he is at best the #3 guy for that organization. Mackinnon and Makar stir the drink for that franchise.
 

tiburon12

Registered User
Jul 18, 2009
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I can't claim to have lived in Denver:rolleyes:, but I've watched practically every Avalanche playoff game in their history, and while Rantanen is a great player he is at best the #3 guy for that organization. Mackinnon and Makar stir the drink for that franchise.
Didn't rantanen carry the offensive mail when macK was hurt two years ago?
 

Cas

Conversational Black Hole
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Jun 23, 2020
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I can't claim to have lived in Denver:rolleyes:, but I've watched practically every Avalanche playoff game in their history, and while Rantanen is a great player he is at best the #3 guy for that organization. Mackinnon and Makar stir the drink for that franchise.
Being the #3 behind MacKinnon and Makar isn't exactly an indictment.
 

OrrNumber4

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Jul 25, 2002
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Being the #3 behind MacKinnon and Makar isn't exactly an indictment.
I guess my point is that if Marner, Barzal, or even Meier had been in that same situation instead of Rantanen, I'd wager that Colorado still has a cup. But, swap Makar or Mackinnon for another Rantanen, and I don't think that holds true anymore.
 

coooldude

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Jul 25, 2007
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I can't claim to have lived in Denver:rolleyes:, but I've watched practically every Avalanche playoff game in their history, and while Rantanen is a great player he is at best the #3 guy for that organization. Mackinnon and Makar stir the drink for that franchise.
Don't have to roll your eyes man. Of course he's the #3 -- MacKinnon is an MVP candidate and Makar is a perennial Norris candidate, but he's not a passenger, which is what your original post said.

I disagree that Meier and Rantanen are swappable and I completely disagree that Marner could even sniff at replacing his impact. I also disagree with Barzal.
 

coooldude

Registered User
Jul 25, 2007
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Just to put a fine point on it:
  • Rantanen playoff stats: 96 points in 75 games, +27, 9 points in 5 games vs WPG this year.
  • Marner (you kidding me? huge playoff underperformer), 50 points in 55 playoff games, the center of Leafs criticism this year and many years
  • Meier, 24 points in 46 playoff games and +1 playing on Sharks teams from 2017-2019 and 10 games/ 4 points last year with the Devils.
  • Barzal 45 points in 60 games, +2, from 2019-2024.
  • Your original comparison, Milan Hejduk, 76 points in 112 playoff games +7, playing with legends himself.
One of these things is not like the other, and it's not because Marner, Meier, Hejduk weren't playing with all world players and Rantanen is. They were also playing with all world players.
 

OrrNumber4

Registered User
Jul 25, 2002
15,935
5,196
Just to put a fine point on it:
  • Rantanen playoff stats: 96 points in 75 games, +27, 9 points in 5 games vs WPG this year.
  • Marner (you kidding me? huge playoff underperformer), 50 points in 55 playoff games, the center of Leafs criticism this year and many years
  • Meier, 24 points in 46 playoff games and +1 playing on Sharks teams from 2017-2019 and 10 games/ 4 points last year with the Devils.
  • Barzal 45 points in 60 games, +2, from 2019-2024.
  • Your original comparison, Milan Hejduk, 76 points in 112 playoff games +7, playing with legends himself.
One of these things is not like the other, and it's not because Marner, Meier, Hejduk weren't playing with all world players and Rantanen is. They were also playing with all world players.
I'll concede that the Hejduk comparison was unfair to Rantanen, but I think that Meier/Marner/Barzal would see their numbers jump significantly in Rantanen's position. To the extent that there would be a dropoff, I don't think it would be enough for Colorado to not win the cup.

On another note, and slightly off topic...fantastic apology from Jon Cooper regarding some rash comments he made yesterday. No more expiation is needed.
 

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