2024 Draft Discussion

[schuelma24]

I'm starting to come around to the idea that MBN isn't going to make it to 15, at least if you listen to other fanbases on here, who "DON'T WANT ANOTHER SMALL, SKILLED FORWARD."

If so, and if a 7th and possibly 8th defensemen go in the top 14, someone like Iginla could conceivably fall to #15.

 

[norrisnick]

I'm starting to come around to the idea that MBN isn't going to make it to 15, at least if you listen to other fanbases on here, who "DON'T WANT ANOTHER SMALL, SKILLED FORWARD."

If so, and if a 7th and possibly 8th defensemen go in the top 14, someone like Iginla could conceivably fall to #15.

Calgary could print money with Iginla jerseys. No way they leave him on the board.

 

[schuelma24]

Calgary could print money with Iginla jerseys. No way they leave him on the board.

You're probably right, but if I had to pick anyone likely to fall a bit its him, and at #9 there could still be a top D on the board that would objectively be a better pick for Calgary.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

HOFers have made careers out of "nothing" but a shot.

This isn’t the 70s and 80s. The skill gap has closed so much between bottom 6ers and your average top 6er.

 

[norrisnick]

This isn’t the 70s and 80s. The skill gap has closed so much between bottom 6ers and your average top 6er.

And? This isn't unique to the NHL. Top to bottom skill has increased in every league. Yes, it's the most prominent at the NHL level, but the best of the best at younger levels are seeing that as well. All you can do is judge a kid based on who they play against. Until it becomes a problem, it's not a problem.

It's just... if you want another Larkin or a Raymond, don't pick a Ras/Compher. Stick your neck out.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

And LeClair on a team without Lindros was basically Barbashev. 20-25G 50ish points.

Well that’s not true. Leclair scored at a higher pace in games Lindros was injured than when Lindros was in the lineup. There was a thread about this on the history of hockey board.

Leclair was finally put in a scoring role in Philly because they saw potential in him that Montreal didn’t. It’s why they traded Mark f***ing Recchi to get him. A guy with multiple 100 point seasons in Philly. The flyers robbed the Canadiens.

Also, I would kill to have Barbashev in our top 6. You’re silly for talking about that as if it’s a bad thing.

 

[norrisnick]

Well that’s not true. Leclair scored at a higher pace in games Lindros was injured than when Lindros was in the lineup. There was a thread about this on the history of hockey board.

Leclair was finally put in a scoring role in Philly because they saw potential in him that Montreal didn’t. It’s why they traded Mark f***ing Recchi to get him. A guy with multiple 100 point seasons in Philly. The flyers robbed the Canadiens.

Also, I would kill to have Barbashev in our top 6. You’re silly for talking about that as if it’s a bad thing.

Don't you dare causation my correlation!

Barbashev is Rasmussen with one big year that he cashed in on.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Dude, there is a massive difference between finding the soft spots and getting your shot off in juniors and the Euro leagues or the KHL and the NHL. Zadina could get open all the time at Halifax. He couldn't in Detroit. Pulkkinen could do it in juniors and at the AHL level, but couldn't at the NHL level on a consistent basis.

And cool, Brett Hull was taken in 1984. I don't even know that they had video cameras in some of the rinks that draft eligible kids would play a lot of the time back then.

Long story short though... I'm just saying that if ALL Eiserman has is a shot... he's a dead prospect. I don't think that's all he has... but it is the risk you're taking. You have to project that he'll be able to locate the areas of the ice at higher levels of competition to be alright with the pick. Other guy said it exactly. He has a huge bust possibility because if you can't get your shot off quickly, cleanly, and consistently and that's your main selling point... you're not going to last long in the NHL. That's what players like that (Teemu Pulkkinen with his massive cannon) usually go in the later rounds.

It is worth qualifying my opinion with the acknowledgement that I think prospects like Pulkkinnen have a much higher chance of being irrelevant than Eiserman does. I think he doesn't utilize his teammates enough, and he can be inconsistent with his effort-especially defensively. Couple that with his skating being *just* very good and him being *just* 6'0 and there's a bit of risk there. He is a very good skater though and has great hands. You worry he has tunnel vision for the net and ends up being too easily defended by the pros. He's a prospect. They all need to develop. They all have risk.

I'm also advocating for him in the same breath that I admit that he doesn't pass enough. Frankly though, I kind of want that out of my sniper, you know? I want him to be a shooting maniac. If you told me that you've come from the future and someone from this draft scores 60 goals someday, I'd bet it was Eiserman. I think we have the depth of prospect pool to swing on the elite talent in Eiserman if he's there.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Don't you dare causation my correlation!

Can't like this enough.

 

[Dotter]

I keep checking Mock drafts online, and over 50% of them have us taking MBN...

Someone please convince me, I just see too many similarities to Kasper here, and it seems like he is another "high-motor, high-energy" player, but I'm not sure on the overall skill.

Every write-up I read has me convinced that he is such an Yzerman type of player, but I'm just not convinced on the overall potetial. Do we really think he's a top 6 Winger??

I'm still personally hoping Eiserman falls to 15 and we grab him....

Tony Ferrari from DobblerProspects described MBN as Zack Hyman during his Toronto days. Basically a 25/30=55pt potential guy. And a guy that can become money during the playoffs.

Ferrari watched tape on Nate Danielson during Winterhawks playoffs and wasn't too high on him. Projects he'll become a 2nd line winger/3rd line center in the NHL. Source: Locked on Red Wings podcast.

What I do know is soft scoring players get shut down in the playoffs. Guys like Kasper, MBN, Mazur are guys you lean on to go deep.

Also, fun side note, only 2 players in the NHL playoffs right now earn over 11 million per. Either of the two teams I project to win the cup don't have either of those 11 million guys; Stars, Panthers. Depth matters. You'll want a pack of hyenas on the bottom six.

Eiserman is not the player I want. He doesn't fit the mold for the type of team Yzerman is building.

 

[Henkka]

Tony Ferrari from DobblerProspects described MBN as Zack Hyman during his Toronto days. And a guy that can become money during the playoffs.

What I do know is soft scoring players get shut down in the playoffs. Guys like Kasper, MBN, Mazur are guys you lean on to go deep.

Eiserman is not the player I want. He doesn't fit the mold for the type of team Yzerman is building.

This sounds nice about MBN.

But I would not exclude Eiserman, if he falls to our pick. Just too good talent to have with 16th overall.

Think we have enough that grinder material already for years to come, and could now add that one-dimensional scorer. He will develop more complete during years, that's for sure. Final product is not what is he is now.

Someone has to have that sniper role. I don't like a team with full grinders. There has to be balance with player types. Raymond could be that creative winger for Eiserman, his line driver anyways, maybe Danielson as the defensive-minded center. etc.

 

[RRhoads]

It's just... if you want another Larkin or a Raymond, don't pick a Ras/Compher. Stick your neck out.

In 2014, the skilled player fans wanted was Fabbri. Glad we didn't stick our necks out.

 

[jkutswings]

Ferrari watched tape on Nate Danielson during Winterhawks playoffs and wasn't too high on him. Projects he'll become a 2nd line winger/3rd line center in the NHL. Source: Locked on Red Wings podcast.

Was he watching that tape with his eyes closed? Nate went 7-17-24 in 18 playoff games with Portland. The only time he did anything less than tear it up was against Moose Jaw, when the entire team was outmatched.

This is what bothers me about online reports. Just as it would be an irresponsible overreaction for me to say that Danielson is the next HOF center based on a few weeks of domination, it's silly for Podcaster3287 to make any definitive claims in the other direction from a small sample size.

Nate is a kid whose year trended upward while playing a position (and style) of need. Let's see how next year goes.

 

[Dotter]

This sounds nice about MBN.

But I would not exclude Eiserman, if he falls to our pick. Just too good talent to have with 16th overall.

Think we have enough that grinder material already for years to come, and could now add that one-dimensional scorer. He will develop more complete during years, that's for sure. Final product is not what is he is now.

Someone has to have that sniper role. I don't like a team with full grinders. There has to be balance with player types. Raymond could be that creative winger for Eiserman, his line driver anyways, maybe Danielson as the defensive-minded center. etc.

Wings already have that one-dimensional inconsistent goal scorer in Debrincat. I want Yzerman to model a team after Panthers or Dallas. They don't have a bunch of powder puffs. They have a bottom 6 that would challenge most teams top 6. Their 4th line is a pack of hyenas. Every line has an impact and creates havoc.

 

[schuelma24]

New Athletic mock with Pronman and Wheeler had Helenius falling to #15 and the Wings taking him. Definitely wouldn't hate it, but don't necessarily love it. Catton made it to Philly...so close.

 

[wingerdinger]

Wings already have that one-dimensional inconsistent goal scorer in Debrincat. I want Yzerman to model a team after Panthers or Dallas. They don't have a bunch of powder puffs. They have a bottom 6 that would challenge most teams top 6. Their 4th line is a pack of hyenas. Every line has an impact and creates havoc.

This is the way. We aren't getting elite talent, it's never going to happen. We need to embrace a deep unrelenting hard to play against identity.

Eiserman is everything we should avoid.

 

[RedWingzz]

Tony Ferrari from DobblerProspects described MBN as Zack Hyman during his Toronto days. Basically a 25/30=55pt potential guy. And a guy that can become money during the playoffs.

Ferrari watched tape on Nate Danielson during Winterhawks playoffs and wasn't too high on him. Projects he'll become a 2nd line winger/3rd line center in the NHL. Source: Locked on Red Wings podcast.

What I do know is soft scoring players get shut down in the playoffs. Guys like Kasper, MBN, Mazur are guys you lean on to go deep.

Also, fun side note, only 2 players in the NHL playoffs right now earn over 11 million per. Either of the two teams I project to win the cup don't have either of those 11 million guys; Stars, Panthers. Depth matters. You'll want a pack of hyenas on the bottom six.

Eiserman is not the player I want. He doesn't fit the mold for the type of team Yzerman is building.

Fair however..

you have to make the playoffs in order to shut down in the playoffs, and based on Eiserman's scoring touch, I think he's a player that helps us make it

People love to rip on Mitchy Marner, and most of the criticism in the playoffs is warranted, but the guy is a 100 point player that helps his team get there every year. Gotta attend the dance to have a shot with the girl.

 

[Dotter]

Fair however..

you have to make the playoffs in order to shut down in the playoffs, and based on Eiserman's scoring touch, I think he's a player that helps us make it

People love to rip on Mitchy Marner, and most of the criticism in the playoffs is warranted, but the guy is a 100 point player that helps his team get there every year. Gotta attend the dance to have a shot with the girl.

True, but my example contender teams both made the playoffs. In fact, one of them was #1 in the Atlantic, the other was #1 in the Central. (Panthers/Dallas).

Do you see Eiserman produce Marner's regular season output? If so, he shouldn't be available at #15.

 

[lilidk]

New Athletic mock with Pronman and Wheeler had Helenius falling to #15 and the Wings taking him. Definitely wouldn't hate it, but don't necessarily love it. Catton made it to Philly...so close.

Solberg at 14, MBN 17, Jet Luchanko 18, Cole Beaudoin 22, Hage23,

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I think we can both agree that that was a different era.

As far as Eiserman goes, yes he has an elite shot. He gets into position for passes at the junior level and fires away.

But.

His skating sucks, as well as his commitment to his two-way play. I've read about his attitude, but never seen it in person.

I don't think Detroit would pick him honestly.

I don't like the kid at all but I would not say that his skating sucks. I think mobility is actually something he has going for him. Does he use it enough? No. And therein lies the problem

This isn’t the 70s and 80s. The skill gap has closed so much between bottom 6ers and your average top 6er.

More important is the increased mobility and size of NHL defensemen and the advent of team defense.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I think there is a lot to be desired in Eiserman's game too, but Eiserman's shot is elite. I think I said earlier in the thread that to me, with Eiserman, there's genuinely a 50% chance that you're getting a functionally irrelevant piece. I can see him getting muscled off every puck, stick checked on every shot and never having the intensity to battle through those issues to find the lanes he'll need to score. If he improves on his general skills a little bit, and continues to develop as a shooter, he could be an elite scorer. The only reason someone with his shot may be available at 15 is because of the holes in his game. I don't think Eiserman is more likely to be a good player than MBN. I just think he's way more likely to be a core player.

For me personally, an elite shot just isn't that impressive of a skill standing alone. It is the one skill that I am not comfortable betting on in the face of serious off the puck and effort issues in the first round.. I also think it is a very small part of actually scoring goals. I am willing to pass on Eiserman and let him prove me wrong. I also, however, have modest expectations of 15OA. I am not expecting an "elite" player or a player with "elite skill" at that point of the draft. I also am not about to confuse comparatively more skilled with "high-end skill" which this board does a ton.

 

[lilidk]

It's hard to see in Danielson and Kasper Larkin replacement as first line center. Even second line center it's kinda hard to see. For that we need to get another center. Both D and Z was drafted 6 and seventh rounds

 

[norrisnick]

In 2014, the skilled player fans wanted was Fabbri. Glad we didn't stick our necks out.

In 2014 we had a massively stronger top 6, but aging centers. And we had picked wingers with our top selection three years running. Skill or safe isn't a decision made in a vacuum.

We have drafted and/or signed Kasper, Copp, Danielson, and Compher the last two summers. Our middle 6 is quite secure. Find some goals plz.

 

[RRhoads]

We have drafted and/or signed Kasper, Copp, Danielson, and Compher the last two summers. Our middle 6 is quite secure. Find some goals plz.

Yeah, that's why people want MBN.

 

[norrisnick]

Yeah, that's why people want MBN.

Ok. Not some goals. A lot of goals, plz.