Around the NHL — Episode XLXVI

[Icelevel]

If that is the case, imagine how STUPID the Connor Brown trade will become, like dumber than anything else Dorion has done including Zibanejad + 2nd for Brassard, or a 2nd for 6.5 AAV Stepan in cap world, etc

I had a related post deleted earlier but I don't want to talk about the problem in itself, I want to talk about the disastrous impact it would have on our roster.

Imagine losing Batherson + Brown + Formenton

Replacing them by DeBrincat + Giroux + Gambrell would be "staying afloat"

So basically that would mean we spent a 7th OA pick to stay afloat?

We just have to hope that doesn’t end up the case.

 

[playasRus]

He had to be 100% convinced that they are not involved before moving Connor Brown... no??? That would be probably the dumbest move I have ever witnessed. But Dorion never ceases to amaze so I actually shouldn't be surprised at all.

I'd have to think.

Tkachuk - Norris - Debrincat
Joseph - Stutzel - Giroux
Grieg - Pinto - Brown (resigned at 4.5M x 5)

or

Tkachuk - Norris - Debrincat
Stutzel - Giroux- Joseph
Grieg - Pinto - Brown

isn't half bad. Better than last year anyways

 

[BondraTime]

Was reading that St.Louis offered Kyrou, Krug and a 1st. That's a solid package to start with and the Flames can still be very competitive with a return like that.

They'll really need Zary or Pelletier to break out if they trade Tkachuk

There is zero chance they offered that

 

[BondraTime]

The only ones that are not involved with 100% certainty are Makar, Point, Fabbro, Mete, Clague and Kyrou.

I’d heard some things from somebody I trust, but they were contradicted by some statements made in the last while.

 

[GCK]

He had to be 100% convinced that they are not involved before moving Connor Brown... no??? That would be probably the dumbest move I have ever witnessed. But Dorion never ceases to amaze so I actually shouldn't be surprised at all.

Such a horrible take. Giroux is Brown’s replacement. There is no scenario where we have both.

 

[GCK]

In case you were living under a rock for the past little while, the world has finally started to change

The "elitists" used to be able to sweep things under the rug but it's getting harder and harder nowadays. There was a settlement for the current case but look at what is still happening.

All the players involved should rightfully be canceled. I'm not going to spend a dollar on a business hiring rapists... I demand to know who are these criminals

It's exactly the same thing as the right to access the NSOR (National Sex Offender Registry)



So quick to "condemn" but why don't you try to understand what is going on first? You always do that and it's a pure waste of time.

In the current situation that both Batherson and Formenton will be back, you are 100% right. It was the right move to trade Brown. However, it was really STUPID to trade Brown now at his LOWEST value, but that's another subject. I'm pretty much convinced that Dorion will never understand what asset management means.

But if you were just able to just click on the link for the previous post, maybe you'd see that we were talking about an hypothetical scenario that both Formenton and Batherson wouldn't be back? In that case, moving Connor Brown for a 2nd round pick in 2024 (lol) becomes really really stupid

The hypothetical situation is moot. Giroux wasn’t going sit around and wait for any potential situations to get sorted out.

Keeping Brown until August when most rosters are set means there was a potential to have to carry his contract into the season which means no flexibility to add another D. By August most team’s rosters are pretty set.

 

[Xspyrit]

The hypothetical situation is moot. Giroux wasn’t going sit around and wait for any potential situations to get sorted out.

Keeping Brown until August when most rosters are set means there was a potential to have to carry his contract into the season which means no flexibility to add another D. By August most team’s rosters are pretty set.

Ok you clearly don't get it. Let me know if you ever do.

 

[GCK]

Ok you clearly don't get it. Let me know if you ever do.

Try explain it again. Knowing we have a fiscal ceiling.

 

[bacon25]

List of people saying they weren't involved growing.

Does coming out with a writ statement about non involvement with the situation get a player off the hook? In the court of public opinion it looks nice, but I am going to wait till the names come out before letting anyone off the hook just yet.

 

[DJB]

DeShaun Watson made statements as well that he was innocent.

They are meaningless

 

[JD1]

Ok you clearly don't get it. Let me know if you ever do.

Have you considered he moved Brown because it was a solid thing to do for Brown? His ice time and productivity was going to be severely curtailed here given our acquisitions of Joseph, DeBrincat and Giroux. Brown may have spent a lot of his time on a 4th line.

It's a contract year for him. These guys have exit interviews. Two adults sitting in a room, one telling the other he may have a significantly reduced role. Upon hearing that, Brown may well have indicated his preference to move given it's a contract year.

If I'm Brown I'm looking for lower end top 6 money in free agency. He's not likely to get that playing 13 minutes a night and PKing.

And if we kept him and moved him in March at the TDL, it sends an awful message if we're in striking distance

Sometimes moves are made because of the players interest. Lots of examples of it.

 

[DueDiligence]

If that is the case, imagine how STUPID the Connor Brown trade will become, like dumber than anything else Dorion has done including Zibanejad + 2nd for Brassard, or a 2nd for 6.5 AAV Stepan in cap world, etc

I had a related post deleted earlier but I don't want to talk about the problem in itself, I want to talk about the disastrous impact it would have on our roster.

Imagine losing Batherson + Brown + Formenton

Replacing them by DeBrincat + Giroux + Gambrell would be "staying afloat"

So basically that would mean we spent a 7th OA pick to stay afloat?

Who in the hell could predict that there was the possibility that Batherson and Formenton would not be playing in 2022-23?

 

[bacon25]

If that is the case, imagine how STUPID the Connor Brown trade will become, like dumber than anything else Dorion has done including Zibanejad + 2nd for Brassard, or a 2nd for 6.5 AAV Stepan in cap world, etc

I had a related post deleted earlier but I don't want to talk about the problem in itself, I want to talk about the disastrous impact it would have on our roster.

Imagine losing Batherson + Brown + Formenton

Replacing them by DeBrincat + Giroux + Gambrell would be "staying afloat"

So basically that would mean we spent a 7th OA pick to stay afloat?

Hard to think that this forum will talk about losing Brown for a 2nd more than losing Z-bad. I can't really fault management for something out of their control. Now if Ottawa had selected them in the draft with the foreknowledge that they may be sexual predators than I blame them 100%. I knew the Sens summer was going to well.

 

[Zorf]

If that is the case, imagine how STUPID the Connor Brown trade will become, like dumber than anything else Dorion has done including Zibanejad + 2nd for Brassard, or a 2nd for 6.5 AAV Stepan in cap world, etc

I had a related post deleted earlier but I don't want to talk about the problem in itself, I want to talk about the disastrous impact it would have on our roster.

Imagine losing Batherson + Brown + Formenton

Replacing them by DeBrincat + Giroux + Gambrell would be "staying afloat"

So basically that would mean we spent a 7th OA pick to stay afloat?

You speak like you know exactly what is about to happen.

Were you in the room when Dorion signed Giroux? Were you there when the team decided they had to trade Brown? If no, then please stop acting like you know everything.


For all we know, Dorion asked Bath and Formenton, or their agents, or their lawyers, if they had any involvement, and then based his decision on Brown off what they told him.


We don't know nearly enough about these events to start blaming Dorion for stuff.

 

[Qward]

DeShaun Watson made statements as well that he was innocent.

They are meaningless

As a Browns fan, this is getting all too common.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Who in the hell could predict that there was the possibility that Batherson and Formenton would not be playing in 2022-23?

Literally Pierre Dorion. We’ve known about this for 2 months now and the possibility has existed since then.

 

[Union2017]

Let's be patient and fair here. First of all, written statement means nothing. It sounds good, but it doesn't prove anyone's innocence. Remember OJ? He wrote an entire book. Do you think he didn't do it?

Second, teenagers do bad things and even their parents don't realize something was going on until it's too late. How can you possibly blame Dorion in this situation. I am not a big fan of PD, but all he can do is go and ask other players, and those two if they were involved at all. If they say no, that's all he has to work with. He can chose to believe it or not.

Hypothetically speaking, let's say PD decided he doesn't trust Batherson, he trades him and then it turns out 6 months later that Bath was telling the truth. Would you blame PD then? Of course you would. All he can do right now is his due diligence, which I hope and believe he did, and either trust the player or listen to his gut feeling, or both. That's it.

If PD knows for the fact that Batherson or Formenton were involved and guilty, then there are legal procedures he needs to comply with and follow, and I am sure he is not able to say publicly "yeah, they are guilty, and nobody wants to take them from us". Again, imagine how those two feel right now if they are innocent and they are reading all this. At the end, and this is the most important thing, imagine how hard all of this is for the victim, reading about it all over the media. Let's be civilized and wait to see what they find out. And then we can be angry/upset with players if they indeed were involved. I don't see how this has ANYTHING to do with PD. Or Melnyk. Or Melnyk sisters.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Let's be patient and fair here. First of all, written statement means nothing. It sounds good, but it doesn't prove anyone's innocence. Remember OJ? He wrote an entire book. Do you think he didn't do it?

Second, teenagers do bad things and even their parents don't realize something was going on until it's too late. How can you possibly blame Dorion in this situation. I am not a big fan of PD, but all he can do is go and ask other players, and those two if they were involved at all. If they say no, that's all he has to work with. He can chose to believe it or not.

Hypothetically speaking, let's say PD decided he doesn't trust Batherson, he trades him and then it turns out 6 months later that Bath was telling the truth. Would you blame PD then? Of course you would. All he can do right now is his due diligence, which I hope and believe he did, and either trust the player or listen to his gut feeling, or both. That's it.

If PD knows for the fact that Batherson or Formenton were involved and guilty, then there are legal procedures he needs to comply with and follow, and I am sure he is not able to say publicly "yeah, they are guilty, and nobody wants to take them from us". Again, imagine how those two feel right now if they are innocent and they are reading all this. At the end, and this is the most important thing, imagine how hard all of this is for the victim, reading about it all over the media. Let's be civilized and wait to see what they find out. And then we can be angry/upset with players if they indeed were involved. I don't see how this has ANYTHING to do with PD. Or Melnyk. Or Melnyk sisters.

What is this? Nobody is saying Batherson should have been traded. We're saying that Brown may have been traded prematurely with the Hockey Canada investigation pending, which Pierre obviously knew was going on. We may actually need someone like Brown this year if some unfortunate findings come to be.

 

[benjiv1]

Connor Brown was traded to acquire an asset to then flip for a D. The deal appears to have fallen through, but that was the reason for the urgency.

Doesn’t matter if one of and or both of Batherson or Formenton are part of the investigation.

 

[Union2017]

What is this? Nobody is saying Batherson should have been traded. We're saying that Brown may have been traded prematurely with the Hockey Canada investigation pending, which Pierre obviously knew was going on. We may actually need someone like Brown this year if some unfortunate findings come to be.

OK, my bad, I misunderstood. There's also a part where Brown wanted to leave (as far as I know), but, I agree. We should (and I hope we do) have a plan B "just in case". Let's hope for the best, I really like Batherson as a player, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near our team if he is guilty.

 

[Micklebot]

Connor Brown was traded to acquire an asset to then flip for a D. The deal appears to have fallen through, but that was the reason for the urgency.

Doesn’t matter if one of and or both of Batherson or Formenton are part of the investigation.

Well that sucks, I'm going to guess Marino as the target, since the timing and assets needed seems in the ballpark.

Maybe we can land Tanev, he's the ideal option from a fit perspective imo, though it would be nice to get someone younger.

 

[GCK]

Well that sucks, I'm going to guess Marino as the target, since the timing and assets needed seems in the ballpark.

Maybe we can land Tanev, he's the ideal option from a fit perspective imo, though it would be nice to get someone younger.

Tanev for 2 years along with Zub extension would be absolutely perfect.

 

[benjiv1]

Well that sucks, I'm going to guess Marino as the target, since the timing and assets needed seems in the ballpark.

Maybe we can land Tanev, he's the ideal option from a fit perspective imo, though it would be nice to get someone younger.

That’s my feeling.

 

[SPF6ty9]

DeShaun Watson made statements as well that he was innocent.

They are meaningless

Ya, looks like at this point we'll just have to wait this out and hope our guys weren't part of it. And then it will be the whole matter of the consequences. Watson looks like he's probably gonna be out for most, maybe all of this season. Trevor Bauer got 2 years. I'm sure the punishment will be on the high end here. The PR implications of not properly addressing it initially will likely drive a heavy response. Then there's the moral considerations of keeping them on the team or trading them for pennies on the dollar.

Terrible situation for all, hopefully Batherson and Formenton were in their rooms playing Pokemon all night. In which case, the only risk is being slightly disappointed in them if they picked Bulbasaur as a starter.

 

[GCK]

Connor Brown was traded to acquire an asset to then flip for a D. The deal appears to have fallen through, but that was the reason for the urgency.

Doesn’t matter if one of and or both of Batherson or Formenton are part of the investigation.

That seems weird to me. We had our own 2023 and 2024 2nds. I can’t see an additional 2024 2nd being the missing piece in a potential deal.