Player Discussion Auston Matthews Discussion

[Apotheosis]

Please stop comparing this guy to Mack, Kucherov, Draisatl or McDavid.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

This thread is why we can't have nice things.

Fire Shanny and then magic will happen, trade Matthews and Marner for uuummmm....... like Jake Debrusk type guys, Berbube won a fluke cup one time with a bunch of jobbers and elite out of nowhere flash in the pan goaltending, superstars get in the way.

The grug brain masses that are Leafs Nation.

I'm going to say something radical, I appreciate that ht e Leafs have Auston Matthews setting franchise records. I think it's pretty cool and hope he spends his entire career with the Leafs.

 

[Boxscore]

For one they have had the worst termed coach in Leafs history. He has often been with one of the softest forward groups to enter the POs routinely. Consistently underwhelming tender and D situation, both things any competent team would have addressed long ago.

He is strong on the puck but with soft linemates he is shit outta luck once other teams cover him better. Look at MM teams don't even care about him. Skate towards the coward and he ditches it.

AM with Domi etc will be better for us than anything MM could offer

It's always someone else to blame other than the player(s) who fail to produce in the playoffs, right? It's the coach, it's the system, it's the D, it's the bottom 6, it's the beer guy, it's the ice, it's the injuries, etc. These excuses buy us 2-3... even 4... years. But not 8. At some point we need to address the elephant in the room, which is the core 4, headlined by Auston Matthews.

Here's the bottom line and non-negotiable harsh reality:

1. The Leafs have won 1 playoff round with Matthews in 8 years. Fact.
2. Matthews sees his production drop significantly in the playoffs. Fact.
3. The Leafs sacrifice more productive depth because Matthews and 3 other players refuse to sacrifice money to help the club add a better supporting cast. Fact.
4. Trying the same thing for 9 years in a row and expecting a different result is asinine. Fact,
5. Trying to deflect the blame from Matthews out of fear or idol worship is silly. Fact.

We need to call it what it is and stop pretending Matthews postseason failures are due to everyone/thing else but not the player who demands to be the highest paid in the league. We're all willing to throw a ton of praise his way when he scores 69 in the regular season... and rightfully so... but when he comes up small in the playoffs (yet again) we refuse to critique him and roll out the carpet of excuses, lmao. That's absurd. And to suggest the keys to Matthews playoff success is, or will be, Max Domi and Tyler Bertuzzi is crazy to me. Saying those guys display more heart than the rest of the Leafs in the playoffs is legit and fair. But to position them as the catalysts to Matthews success is a bridge too far and doesn't reflect well on Matthews at all tbh.

 

[fahad203]

It's always someone else to blame other than the player(s) who fail to produce in the playoffs, right? It's the coach, it's the system, it's the D, it's the bottom 6, it's the beer guy, it's the ice, it's the injuries, etc. These excuses buy us 2-3... even 4... years. But not 8. At some point we need to address the elephant in the room, which is the core 4, headlined by Auston Matthews.

Here's the bottom line and non-negotiable harsh reality:

1. The Leafs have won 1 playoff round with Matthews in 8 years. Fact.
2. Matthews sees his production drop significantly in the playoffs. Fact.
3. The Leafs sacrifice more productive depth because Matthews and 3 other players refuse to sacrifice money to help the club add a better supporting cast. Fact.
4. Trying the same thing for 9 years in a row and expecting a different result is asinine. Fact,
5. Trying to deflect the blame from Matthews out of fear or idol worship is silly. Fact.

We need to call it what it is and stop pretending Matthews postseason failures are due to everyone/thing else but not the player who demands to be the highest paid in the league. We're all willing to throw a ton of praise his way when he scores 69 in the regular season... and rightfully so... but when he comes up small in the playoffs (yet again) we refuse to critique him and roll out the carpet of excuses, lmao. That's absurd. And to suggest the keys to Matthews playoff success is, or will be, Max Domi and Tyler Bertuzzi is crazy to me. Saying those guys display more heart than the rest of the Leafs in the playoffs is legit and fair. But to position them as the catalysts to Matthews success is a bridge too far and doesn't reflect well on Matthews at all tbh.

Every star in the league Matthews was compared to has out scored him in playoffs. Except for Laine. Heck even he had 12 points in playoff run

Barkov has outclassed him totally. Last star to come through on this list
McDavid/Drai/Mackininon I am not even going to bother
Eichel won a stanly cup and was a point per game player in 24 playoff games (26 points in 22 games). Even this year 7 games 7 points
Kuch - yeah we wont' go there. But lets do it for fun. When he was 21, he had 22 points in 26 games.
Stammer - when he was 20, he had 13 points in 18 games
Ovi - when he was 22 he had 21 points in 14 games. His 2nd year in playoffs
Pasternak - when he was 22 he had 20 points in 12 games. His 3rd year into playoffs

We can go down this list and we are only going to be dissapointed and embarrased.

Every star has come through by this age and into their playoff runs. Except for one so called Super MEGA star that is Auston Matthews

But lets blame our goalies, coach and Marner. Matthews can do no wrong

 

[meefer]

Honestly, I'd trade him.

The combined returns on dealing both Matthews and Marner could redefine the Leafs as early as next year, and in a good way.

 

[Stephen]

Every star in the league Matthews was compared to has out scored him in playoffs. Except for Laine. Heck even he had 12 points in playoff run

Barkov has outclassed him totally. Last star to come through on this list
McDavid/Drai/Mackininon I am not even going to bother
Eichel won a stanly cup and was a point per game player in 24 playoff games (26 points in 22 games). Even this year 7 games 7 points
Kuch - yeah we wont' go there. But lets do it for fun. When he was 21, he had 22 points in 26 games.
Stammer - when he was 20, he had 13 points in 18 games
Ovi - when he was 22 he had 21 points in 14 games. His 2nd year in playoffs
Pasternak - when he was 22 he had 20 points in 12 games. His 3rd year into playoffs

We can go down this list and we are only going to be dissapointed and embarrased.

Every star has come through by this age and into their playoff runs. Except for one so called Super MEGA star that is Auston Matthews

But lets blame our goalies, coach and Marner. Matthews can do no wrong

Barkov hasn't been a reliable offensive producer in the playoffs until this year, though he did beat Matthews in the head to head last year...

But I do think Barkov's evolution is probably the closest path forward for Matthews. He's got to shed Marner (Huberdeau) and the Leafs need to put some junkyard dogs around him. Maybe they build the equivalent of a Sky Line with Matthews and two power wingers, or one alpha power winger and a Domi, and AM34 can operate safety in numbers and maybe create space to operate by a more urgent and nasty northbound game.

But yeah, I generally agree with your pessimistic assessment. Matthews has been lapped by the field since his Hart Trophy season and failing to build a playoff legacy worth mentioning. And let's face it, his 69 goal season does have an air of "meh whatever" to it when Game 2 is the only time he was able to have an impact vs Boston... McDavid, Mackinnon, Kucherov (and Pastrnak and Panarin) have outscored him in the regular season point race... Draisaitl is just doing outrageous things in the playoffs. Makar was fantastic on defense.

Normally, hanging around the bottom half of the Top 10 isn't bad at all, but it goes back to being The Highest Paid Guy. Hopefully Berube can bring more out of him.

 

[arso40]

Barkov hasn't been a reliable offensive producer in the playoffs until this year, though he did beat Matthews in the head to head last year...

But I do think Barkov's evolution is probably the closest path forward for Matthews. He's got to shed Marner (Huberdeau) and the Leafs need to put some junkyard dogs around him. Maybe they build the equivalent of a Sky Line with Matthews and two power wingers, or one alpha power winger and a Domi, and AM34 can operate safety in numbers and maybe create space to operate by a more urgent and nasty northbound game.

But yeah, I generally agree with your pessimistic assessment. Matthews has been lapped by the field since his Hart Trophy season and failing to build a playoff legacy worth mentioning. And let's face it, his 69 goal season does have an air of "meh whatever" to it when Game 2 is the only time he was able to have an impact vs Boston... McDavid, Mackinnon, Kucherov (and Pastrnak and Panarin) have outscored him in the regular season point race... Draisaitl is just doing outrageous things in the playoffs. Makar was fantastic on defense.

Normally, hanging around the bottom half of the Top 10 isn't bad at all, but it goes back to being The Highest Paid Guy. Hopefully Berube can bring more out of him.

Maybe Babcock was onto something on why he didn't want marner to play with matthews hmmmmmm

 

[notDatsyuk]

Matthews is a God among players. Why? Because they have a Player's Union and anyone who drives salaries up is looked up to.

Not true. With the way the hard cap is set, only revenue drives it up.

If Matthews makes more, it drives up the salaries for the top players, which just means less for the average Joes.

It's like a guy getting minimum wage thanking Galen Weston for driving up CEO salaries by raising food prices.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Not true. With the way the hard cap is set, only revenue drives it up.

If Matthews makes more, it drives up the salaries for the top players, which just means less for the average Joes.

It's like a guy getting minimum wage thanking Galen Weston for driving up CEO salaries by raising food prices.

I didn't say the heads of the Player's Union were geniuses.

 

[egd27]

Matthews has done a lot. Just not enough yet. But like all the others on the list, outside McDavid and to an extent Mack, all it takes on one big run and he would be top 20 alltime

Top 20 what of all time ?

 

[Tak7]

Honestly, I'd trade him.

The combined returns on dealing both Matthews and Marner could redefine the Leafs as early as next year, and in a good way.

IF they can't build a team around the best pure goal scorer in the NHL, they sure as shit aren't going to be able to build a team around the pieces they get in exchange for the best pure goal scorer in the NHL.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

He was a beast at the all star game

 

[theTTC]

This thread is why we can't have nice things.

Fire Shanny and then magic will happen, trade Matthews and Marner for uuummmm....... like Jake Debrusk type guys, Berbube won a fluke cup one time with a bunch of jobbers and elite out of nowhere flash in the pan goaltending, superstars get in the way.

The grug brain masses that are Leafs Nation.

I'm going to say something radical, I appreciate that ht e Leafs have Auston Matthews setting franchise records. I think it's pretty cool and hope he spends his entire career with the Leafs.

You going to offer an opinion on how we can finally have nice things? Or does this vapid blanket insult towards the rest of us posters represent the depth of your discernment (lol) regarding the Leafs and their fanbase?

 

[leafan11]

IF they can't build a team around the best pure goal scorer in the NHL, they sure as shit aren't going to be able to build a team around the pieces they get in exchange for the best pure goal scorer in the NHL.

He’s not the best pure goal scorer when it matters the most.

 

[Apotheosis]

This thread is why we can't have nice things.

Fire Shanny and then magic will happen, trade Matthews and Marner for uuummmm....... like Jake Debrusk type guys, Berbube won a fluke cup one time with a bunch of jobbers and elite out of nowhere flash in the pan goaltending, superstars get in the way.

The grug brain masses that are Leafs Nation.

I'm going to say something radical, I appreciate that ht e Leafs have Auston Matthews setting franchise records. I think it's pretty cool and hope he spends his entire career with the Leafs.

This kind of mentality is why the Leafs keep getting a pass for PATHETIC displays year in and year out in the playoffs. Dude scores nearly 70 goals in the regular season and then is pedestrian in the playoffs yet gets a pass because the team was bad for so long? Come on man.

 

[Stephen]

It feels like you are neglecting everything Matthews does outside of raw points.


Being an elite defender, while being good on faceoffs, while being in the top of hits, blocks, takeaways all the time can't be looked past.

Matthews has done a lot. Just not enough yet. But like all the others on the list, outside McDavid and to an extent Mack, all it takes on one big run and he would be top 20 alltime

Matthews has done a lot of great things but not enough of the right things and too much of the “nice to haves”.

 

[Tak7]

He’s not the best pure goal scorer when it matters the most.

Sure, but the talent is still inherently there, right?
So instead of trading it away in a deal that you will inevitably lose, and then start wishing that you had a player like that on your team, it's upto them to figure out how best to help him get to that next level in the playoffs.

Whether that be motivation, linemates, coaching, all of the above, etc.

You don't give up on players like Matthews imo

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Sure, but the talent is still inherently there, right?
So instead of trading it away in a deal that you will inevitably lose, and then start wishing that you had a player like that on your team, it's upto them to figure out how best to help him get to that next level in the playoffs.

Whether that be motivation, linemates, coaching, all of the above, etc.

You don't give up on players like Matthews imo

Not yet anyway. If they still suck in the playoffs 4 years from now, well Bye!

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Not yet anyway. If they still suck in the playoffs 4 years from now, well Bye!

They will not walk away from him. He's a big part of their marketing plan. They have proven that the team will do anything to keep him. Even if it means destroying their chance to win anything meaningful.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It's always someone else to blame other than the player(s) who fail to produce in the playoffs, right? It's the coach, it's the system, it's the D, it's the bottom 6, it's the beer guy, it's the ice, it's the injuries, etc. These excuses buy us 2-3... even 4... years. But not 8. At some point we need to address the elephant in the room, which is the core 4, headlined by Auston Matthews.

Here's the bottom line and non-negotiable harsh reality:

1. The Leafs have won 1 playoff round with Matthews in 8 years. Fact.
2. Matthews sees his production drop significantly in the playoffs. Fact.
3. The Leafs sacrifice more productive depth because Matthews and 3 other players refuse to sacrifice money to help the club add a better supporting cast. Fact.
4. Trying the same thing for 9 years in a row and expecting a different result is asinine. Fact,
5. Trying to deflect the blame from Matthews out of fear or idol worship is silly. Fact.

We need to call it what it is and stop pretending Matthews postseason failures are due to everyone/thing else but not the player who demands to be the highest paid in the league. We're all willing to throw a ton of praise his way when he scores 69 in the regular season... and rightfully so... but when he comes up small in the playoffs (yet again) we refuse to critique him and roll out the carpet of excuses, lmao. That's absurd. And to suggest the keys to Matthews playoff success is, or will be, Max Domi and Tyler Bertuzzi is crazy to me. Saying those guys display more heart than the rest of the Leafs in the playoffs is legit and fair. But to position them as the catalysts to Matthews success is a bridge too far and doesn't reflect well on Matthews at all tbh.

But Matthews isn't the only one relevant to that "harsh reality";

1. The Leafs have won 1 playoff round with Matthews AND MARNER AND NYLANDER in 8 years AND TAVARES IN 6 YEARS. Fact.
2. Matthews sees his production drop significantly in the playoffs. MORE THAN NYLANDER, BUT ABOUT THE SAME AS MARNER AND LESS THAN TAVARES. Fact.
3. The Leafs sacrifice more productive depth because Matthews and MARNER AND NYLANDER refuse to sacrifice money to help the club add a better supporting cast, AND DUBAS SIGNED AN UNNECESSARY TAVARES. Fact.

Matthews certainly deserves some of the criticism, but there are two of those four who have been appreciably more responsible for the 'harsh reality'. Only Matthews and Nylander have come close to providing value commiserate with their salary.

 

[Jojalu]

Top 20 what of all time ?

If he rattled off 30 points in 20 games next playoffs,, he would be in the top 20 of PPG in playoffs of all time.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

If he rattled off 30 points in 20 games next playoffs,, he would be in the top 20 of PPG in playoffs of all time.

Problem is that’s not happening

Only a select few put up a 1.5ppg in the playoffs. I don’t think kucherov did it in his cup wins and finals appearance. Makar (barely) didn’t do it in the Avs dominant cup win

Mcdavid and Draisaitl do it, and that’s about it

That level of play is based on pure fantasy as Matthews hasn’t shown he can score goals or assists at any consistent rate in the playoffs of a superstar.

 

[Maple Leaf]

You need to score in the playoffs when you are being shutdown if you can't then that's the end of the story

 

[Jojalu]

Problem is that’s not happening

Only a select few put up a 1.5ppg in the playoffs. I don’t think kucherov did it in his cup wins and finals appearance. Makar (barely) didn’t do it in the Avs dominant cup win

Mcdavid and Draisaitl do it, and that’s about it

That level of play is based on pure fantasy as Matthews hasn’t shown he can score goals or assists at any consistent rate in the playoffs of a superstar.

I agree.

It's unlikely. But who knows under a new coach if the PP could ever take off. That's where he would have to rack up points.

 

[egd27]

If he rattled off 30 points in 20 games next playoffs,, he would be in the top 20 of PPG in playoffs of all time.

oh ok...........so 10 pts a series over the next 3 years ?