Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

[sfvega]

I do think the Kyrou suggestions are more pipe dreams than an actual possibility. Army wants to compete sooner rather than later, and we don't really have a ready-made replacement for him in-house. And as usual, we have issues with finding defensive players worth losing Kyrou, having a reasonable amount of the cap spent on D, Krug's NTC, etc. I don't think anyone believes Army would trade away a near PPG player to pick someone who might do that 4-5 years from now.

 

[Blanick]

I do think the Kyrou suggestions are more pipe dreams than an actual possibility. Army wants to compete sooner rather than later, and we don't really have a ready-made replacement for him in-house. And as usual, we have issues with finding defensive players worth losing Kyrou, having a reasonable amount of the cap spent on D, Krug's NTC, etc. I don't think anyone believes Army would trade away a near PPG player to pick someone who might do that 4-5 years from now.

True instead of trying to trade Kyrou the focus should be on Krug. Moreso in finding a team that he would be willing to waive to. I know Detroit has been mentioned in the past but their core seems pretty locked with Edvinsson pushing for NHL time next year. Maybe someone like Minnesota? I feel like they could use a offensive defenseman on the left side. Lastly, maybe he would waive to go to Pittsburg and play with Crosby? They definitely need to add some players to the back end. Would you be willing to a swap for Graves? I know he has two extra years on Krug at 2 mil less per year but in a bottom four shutdown role he could be effective, just needs a change of scenery?

 

[Celtic Note]

I don’t think I’m being clear enough making my point. I’m saying you bring in Theodore now and within 2-3 years when you expect to be competitive you shed Krug and Faulk to make room to bring in someone better than Theodore or Parayko.

I don’t think you can expect to be able to do all of the heavy lifting to remake the defense in 1 or 2 offseasons. And if you’re drafting “the guy” to be your #1 (because he’s not likely in your organization now) you’re probably looking at the 2025 draft at the earliest and then waiting at least another 6 years (when that player is 24) before you can reasonably expect him to have ascended to being a #1, at which point you should probably blow it up now. If you’re not going to be drafting Top 5 regularly for 3-5 years, you need to improve your roster whenever and wherever you can. To me, we need a 29 year old Theodore as part of the retool way more than we need a 29 year old Buchnevich.

How are you getting this better player in the future if you are not drafting him now? FA seems like a fools errand for reasons previously mentioned. So that leaves a trade. So why not go that route sooner and go for an up and comer instead?

And if drafting a D is a lottery ticket and a bad strategy, then why have so many teams successfully deployed that strategy including our own Blues?

How does Theodore help us in 2-3 years when he saddles us with yet another long and expensive contract that is not in his prime years? If we are not competing in 2-3 years, why do we need Theodore now? Why use one of our best assets in Buch for what seems another bandaid like Faulk?

Our window probably closes in 6 years if Parayko and Theodore are still in our top 4, because there is going to be a falloff in play from those two at that point.

 

[Meatball]

Trading Kyrou is dumb, yall.

 

[simon IC]

True instead of trying to trade Kyrou the focus should be on Krug. Moreso in finding a team that he would be willing to waive to. I know Detroit has been mentioned in the past but their core seems pretty locked with Edvinsson pushing for NHL time next year. Maybe someone like Minnesota? I feel like they could use a offensive defenseman on the left side. Lastly, maybe he would waive to go to Pittsburg and play with Crosby? They definitely need to add some players to the back end. Would you be willing to a swap for Graves? I know he has two extra years on Krug at 2 mil less per year but in a bottom four shutdown role he could be effective, just needs a change of scenery?

Graves for Krug? In a heartbeat!

 

[Blanick]

Graves for Krug? In a heartbeat!

I know fans in Pittsburg are upset with Graves, not sure if management has soured on him yet.

 

[Reality Czech]

This fanbase's hate boner for Kyrou is unreal. If we trade him away then we spend the next few years praying that one of the forwards we draft can replace the offense we lost. Yes, there are holes in his game but for a former 2nd round pick he is an exceptional player. Also as we age out some of our older contracts, being replaced with ELCs and 2nd bridge contracts, and the cap continues to rise his salary will become much more tolerable.

Why do some people feel the need to defend Kyrou as if he's their own son? People want Army to improve the team and you're not getting a good player without giving up talent. That means one of Kyrou, Snuggles, Dvorsky, etc would have to be on the table. It's not unreasonable to consider trading Kyrou if it helps us land a top young d-man, which is a lot harder to come by than a streaky, mostly one dimensional winger.

 

[Blanick]

Why do some people feel the need to defend Kyrou as if he's their own son? People want Army to improve the team and you're not getting a good player without giving up talent. That means one of Kyrou, Snuggles, Dvorsky, etc would have to be on the table. It's not unreasonable to consider trading Kyrou if it helps us land a top young d-man, which is a lot harder to come by than a streaky, mostly one dimensional winger.

I'm not saying its unreasonable to trade Kyrou. Its just if we do it needs to be for a known commodity not a draft pick. If someone wants to put a top4 under 25 defenseman on the table that has top pairing potential I will listen. Shy of that I don't want to trade him. As for "defending him like my son" that is not true, I criticize aspects of game all the time but find him to be an overall positive. Perhaps it seems like I am defensive because I feel like he is unfairly targeted on social media and these boards.

 

[Reality Czech]

I'm not saying its unreasonable to trade Kyrou. Its just if we do it needs to be for a known commodity not a draft pick. If someone wants to put a top4 under 25 defenseman on the table that has top pairing potential I will listen. Shy of that I don't want to trade him. As for "defending him like my son" that is not true, I criticize aspects of game all the time but find him to be an overall positive. Perhaps it seems like I am defensive because I feel like he is unfairly targeted on social media and these boards.

Fair enough but it's almost like some people take it personally when Kyrou is criticized. He's a big boy making over $8 million a year, he should expect to hear it from the fans if he's not performing up to that level. Yeah a known commodity would be great, but if that doesn't become available then we may have to look at other options. Getting a top 5 pick isn't anything to scoff at.

Besides, Krug is the one that gets the majority of hate from this fan base as if our defensive struggles are his fault alone. We've got some fans who seem to hate Army with a passion despite all he's done for the franchise, so guess you can never please everybody.

 

[MissouriMook]

How are you getting this better player in the future if you are not drafting him now? FA seems like a fools errand for reasons previously mentioned. So that leaves a trade. So why not go that route sooner and go for an up and comer instead?

And if drafting a D is a lottery ticket and a bad strategy, then why have so many teams successfully deployed that strategy including our own Blues?

Regarding the first part, you’re assuming that the player in question is even available, which almost certainly requires that our pro scouts are way out in front of those of his current team to the point that they would trade him. Who is trading an up and comer that projects to be a 1D? And what are you going to have to give up to get him? If you’re talking about doing it soon, the package probably starts with Thomas. I absolutely think we should be trying to do this for a team that is sleeping on what they have in the player and at a lesser cost, but I strongly disagree that we shouldn’t be trying to make the team better now while waiting for such a deal to come along.

Regarding the second part, sure you can draft a 1D…if you’re drafting in the Top 5 and get a few cracks at it. I don’t know the exact numbers, but I would expect that the number of D drafted in the Top 5 in the last 20 years that don’t become a true 1D far exceeds the number of players drafted outside the Top 5 that do. Based on the team’s current status, I don’t see us picking Top 5 in the foreseeable future, but even if they managed to land the right guy in this draft outside the Top 5, you’re probably still at least 5 years away from that player making a 1D-level impact. As far as the Blues doing so before, the only true 1Ds in recent memory are MacInnis, Pronger and Pietrangelo and they cost us two Hall of Famers and a 4OA pick.

 

[SirPaste]

True instead of trying to trade Kyrou the focus should be on Krug. Moreso in finding a team that he would be willing to waive to. I know Detroit has been mentioned in the past but their core seems pretty locked with Edvinsson pushing for NHL time next year. Maybe someone like Minnesota? I feel like they could use a offensive defenseman on the left side. Lastly, maybe he would waive to go to Pittsburg and play with Crosby? They definitely need to add some players to the back end. Would you be willing to a swap for Graves? I know he has two extra years on Krug at 2 mil less per year but in a bottom four shutdown role he could be effective, just needs a change of scenery?

Krug for Graves sounds like a great deal for us, he had a rough season last year but I think he could be good here playing a shutdown role. Now I don't see Pittsburgh entertaining this at all though, they already have Letang and Karlsson who at this point are basically just purely offensive dmen, not sure why they would want Krug at all.

 

[Brian39]

I'm not comfortable trading Kyrou for the #5 overall pick (plus other picks) in this year's draft. I do not believe that there will be a future 1D on the board at that pick and frankly I'm not very confident that any D man in this draft will become a 1D. I see a lot of top pair upside and guys who are pretty safe bets to have top 4 floors. But I'm not completely sold on any of them and I think it is pretty safe to assume that at least 1 D man is gone before pick #5.

Picking #5 doesn't give you very good odds to pick up a #1 D man. Take a look at D men drafted 5th-10th from 2010-2019:

2010: Dylan McIlrath (10th)
2011: Hamilton (9th) and Brodin (10th)
2012: Reilly (5th), H Lindholm (6th), Dumba (7th), Pouliot (8th), Trouba (9th), Koekkoek (10th)
2013: Nurse (7th), Ristolainen (8th)
2014: Fleury (7th)
2015: Hanifin (5th), Provorov (7th), Werenski (8th)
2016: Juolevi (5th), Sergachev (9th)
2017: none
2018: Q Hughes (7th), Boqvist (8th), Bouchard (10th)
2019: Seider (6th), Broberg (8th)

I see 8 guys on that list that would set a a rebuild back 1+ years and be viewed as a complete disaster (McIlrath, Brodin, Pouliot, Koekkoek, Fleury, Juolevi, Boqvist, and Broberg). That's a 36% complete bust rate. On pure talent/resume/ability, I have zero interest trading a 26 year old Kyrou for an 18 year old version of Dumba, Ristolainen, or Provorov. I think those would all be clear losses for us. Already, I see a 50% 'clear loss' rate just on raw ability without even factoring in development time.

It isn't like the other 50% is all 'clear wins.' Several guys took years to develop and then didn't break out until after leaving the team that drafted them. Several showed the promise of being 'that guy,' got paid like it and are now overpaid for what they became. Some are paid appropriately, but still not good enough to be a franchise D man. Then you have a few guys that really hit and would be a clear win.

I'm not trading Kyrou for that much uncertainty with such a low chance of true success. We have another 14 months before Kyou's NTC kicks in. Even if you believe that we need to move Kyrou in order to accomplish our long-term goals, we don't need to move him for pure picks right now.

I'm not at all eager to move Kyrou, but would definitely move him in the right deal to address the blue line. But I need more certainty on the D I'm getting back than the massive uncertainty surrounding a 5th overall pick. That could be an established player of roughly the same age (with significant term) or it could be a prospect with high draft pedigree and multiple post-draft years of encouraging development. But I'm not doing it for a draft pick where at least 1 D man is almost certainly off the board.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I'm not comfortable trading Kyrou for the #5 overall pick (plus other picks) in this year's draft. I do not believe that there will be a future 1D on the board at that pick and frankly I'm not very confident that any D man in this draft will become a 1D. I see a lot of top pair upside and guys who are pretty safe bets to have top 4 floors. But I'm not completely sold on any of them and I think it is pretty safe to assume that at least 1 D man is gone before pick #5.

Picking #5 doesn't give you very good odds to pick up a #1 D man. Take a look at D men drafted 5th-10th from 2010-2019:

2010: Dylan McIlrath (10th)
2011: Hamilton (9th) and Brodin (10th)
2012: Reilly (5th), H Lindholm (6th), Dumba (7th), Pouliot (8th), Trouba (9th), Koekkoek (10th)
2013: Nurse (7th), Ristolainen (8th)
2014: Fleury (7th)
2015: Hanifin (5th), Provorov (7th), Werenski (8th)
2016: Juolevi (5th), Sergachev (9th)
2017: none
2018: Q Hughes (7th), Boqvist (8th), Bouchard (10th)
2019: Seider (6th), Broberg (8th)

I see 8 guys on that list that would set a a rebuild back 1+ years and be viewed as a complete disaster (McIlrath, Brodin, Pouliot, Koekkoek, Fleury, Juolevi, Boqvist, and Broberg). That's a 36% complete bust rate. On pure talent/resume/ability, I have zero interest trading a 26 year old Kyrou for an 18 year old version of Dumba, Ristolainen, or Provorov. I think those would all be clear losses for us. Already, I see a 50% 'clear loss' rate just on raw ability without even factoring in development time.

It isn't like the other 50% is all 'clear wins.' Several guys took years to develop and then didn't break out until after leaving the team that drafted them. Several showed the promise of being 'that guy,' got paid like it and are now overpaid for what they became. Some are paid appropriately, but still not good enough to be a franchise D man. Then you have a few guys that really hit and would be a clear win.

I'm not trading Kyrou for that much uncertainty with such a low chance of true success. We have another 14 months before Kyou's NTC kicks in. Even if you believe that we need to move Kyrou in order to accomplish our long-term goals, we don't need to move him for pure picks right now.

I'm not at all eager to move Kyrou, but would definitely move him in the right deal to address the blue line. But I need more certainty on the D I'm getting back than the massive uncertainty surrounding a 5th overall pick. That could be an established player of roughly the same age (with significant term) or it could be a prospect with high draft pedigree and multiple post-draft years of encouraging development. But I'm not doing it for a draft pick where at least 1 D man is almost certainly off the board.

Completely agree with the crux of your argument but Jonas Brodin has been the Wild’s #1-2 d-man for over a decade and has played over 800 NHL games so far. He’s damn good and one of the more underrated d-men in the league IMO because he’s not flashy or puts up a ton of points. But he’s probably what we should hope Lindstein becomes.

 

[Majorityof1]

Completely agree with the crux of your argument but Jonas Brodin has been the Wild’s #1-2 d-man for over a decade and has played over 800 NHL games so far. He’s damn good and one of the more underrated d-men in the league IMO because he’s not flashy or puts up a ton of points. But he’s probably what we should hope Lindstein becomes.

I was about to post this exactly. I was looking for another Brodin in the league. He may not be what you want at 5oA, but is pretty good value at 10 pick. He's 800+ games at 22+ a night and positive +/-. He definitely stands out of that group if you want to play one if these things is not like the others .

 

[BadgersandBlues]

The only player(s) I would move Kyrou for are current NHL top pair young D. Jake Sanderson always comes to mind as a good comp, not that I expect Ottawa to go for that. That's the framework I'm looking for though, a Sanderson/Kyrou type swap, maybe with small adds on both sides (We add a 3rd they add a 5th or some sillyness just so people can't say it's 1 for 1)

 

[Brian39]

Completely agree with the crux of your argument but Jonas Brodin has been the Wild’s #1-2 d-man for over a decade and has played over 800 NHL games so far. He’s damn good and one of the more underrated d-men in the league IMO because he’s not flashy or puts up a ton of points. But he’s probably what we should hope Lindstein becomes.

That's fair. I should have put him in a different category because he definitely isn't a bust. I started my post listing just guys that a I would/wouldn't be content with getting at 18 in exchange for Kyrou and then decided to further break out the categories. I should have had him in a different tier. FWIW, I think he fits better into the Dumba/Risto/Provorov tier than a tier with guys like Werenski/Hanifin/Lindholm. But I see an argument both ways.

I wouldn't trade a 26 year old Kyrou for an 18 year old Brodin straight up and I'd be disappointed if we tried to build our franchise around an 18 year old Brodin as our best piece.

 

[Blueston]

That's fair. I should have put him in a different category because he definitely isn't a bust. I started my post listing just guys that a I would/wouldn't be content with getting at 18 in exchange for Kyrou and then decided to further break out the categories. I should have had him in a different tier. FWIW, I think he fits better into the Dumba/Risto/Provorov tier than a tier with guys like Werenski/Hanifin/Lindholm. But I see an argument both ways.

I wouldn't trade a 26 year old Kyrou for an 18 year old Brodin straight up and I'd be disappointed if we tried to build our franchise around an 18 year old Brodin as our best piece.

This is where I think we diverge. I don’t think you can expect to get a 1d for good but not elite 1rw. I say this as guy who sees kyrou as guy who can put up 30+g and 90+ points. I like him. But that doesn’t get you a 1d. I don’t even think it gets you a really good 2d. And this isn’t about kyrou not being really good, it’s positional value. Wingers have less value than d. So if we can get young d that we expect will be 2d but think can be 1d, I think that is deal I do. There is risk but risk is inherent in all potential moves. Top pair d are valuable enough that to get kid in right age range that we think is that, I do it.

 

[Drubilly]

Trading Kyrou is dumb, yall.

I read this in Meatwad’s voice.

 

[Brian39]

This is where I think we diverge. I don’t think you can expect to get a 1d for good but not elite 1rw. I say this as guy who sees kyrou as guy who can put up 30+g and 90+ points. I like him. But that doesn’t get you a 1d. I don’t even think it gets you a really good 2d. And this isn’t about juror not being really good, it’s positional value. Wingers have less value than d. So if we can get young d that we expect will be 2d but think can be 1d, I think that is deal I do. There is risk but risk is inherent in all potential moves. Top pair d are valuable enough that to get kid in right age range that we think is that, I do it.

I don't disagree that you shouldn't expect to get a 1D for a winger of Kyrou's caliber.

I'd trade Kyrou for a same-age, same-contract, known quantity Brodin. I'd trade Kyrou for a young-20s Brodin that was at that point ready to genuinely contribute. I would not trade Kyrou for an 18 year old Brodin. I firmly believe that Brodin's success in the first few years of his career was due in huge part to being stapled with Suter, who was a legit stud 1D. We don't have a guy like that to provide as a partner, so I think we'd be talking about a half decade before a Brodin-like talent is paying off here.

Part of the math is the several seasons of roster downgrade where the payoff at the end is still a situation where your blueline is missing 'the guy.'

 

[Blueston]

I don't disagree that you shouldn't expect to get a 1D for a winger of Kyrou's caliber.

I'd trade Kyrou for a same-age, same-contract, known quantity Brodin. I'd trade Kyrou for a young-20s Brodin that was at that point ready to genuinely contribute. I would not trade Kyrou for an 18 year old Brodin. I firmly believe that Brodin's success in the first few years of his career was due in huge part to being stapled with Suter, who was a legit stud 1D. We don't have a guy like that to provide as a partner, so I think we'd be talking about a half decade before a Brodin-like talent is paying off here.

Part of the math is the several seasons of roster downgrade where the payoff at the end is still a situation where your blueline is missing 'the guy.'

presumably if we deal him for 5 it's in the anticipation we are going to get dickinson or silayev (levshunov won't be there). so let's say, hypothetically, we make that deal. we may expect that they end up as brodin level, but i think there is legit chance each are better than brodin. so that is hope. but as you say, it makes us worse in the next few years (although does potentially create a good bit of cap space to mitigate that). is that all bad? would give us higher pick next couple years, which is good. army doesn't want to blow it all up, but if he thought he could get next 1d i can see him taking short term loss. now maybe it's not for draft pick, but for jiricek or someone like him, but i think he'd deal anyone on roster but thomas (and maybe neighbours) for that guy.

 

[Mike Liut]

How about just sign Zadorov to play with Parayko? I’d give my left nut for him.

 

[Blueston]

How about just sign Zadorov to play with Parayko? I’d give my left nut for him.

Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world... but for Wales?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world... but for Wales?

You’ve upped your game, Sir!

 

[AyeBah]

Buch and our 3rd to MTL for 5th pick. MTL needs/wants a forward and can't be a young team forever. Need a veteran guy at some point. Doubt this even happens though

 

[Xerloris]

Buch and our 3rd to MTL for 5th pick. MTL needs/wants a forward and can't be a young team forever. Need a veteran guy at some point. Doubt this even happens though

For sure I would be all for it but I highly doubt the Habs would do it.