Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

[WeWentBlues]

guy who i think would actually be great fit next to him may just hit the market, and that is sergachev. his NTC doesn't kick in until this summer, he's signed for 7 more years, will turn 26 this summer. they just reacquired macdonough and are talking about extending hedman beyond next season. tampa has to move $ out if they are gonna keep stamkos. might sergachev actually be available? would be ironic that 2 years ago they moved mcd to sign sergachev extension to now reverse both ends of that. i don't imagine he will be cheap, but he could be guy we are all looking for.

Sign me up please

 

[sfvega]

it would be terrible move for any franchise to pay zadorov that much, but would be even worse for us with where we are at.

I agree. There have been guys who have come available who could fix our defense. Ekholm (though probably not in-division, but you never know), Lindholm, Gavrikov, Sanheim, etc. But we didn't afford ourselves the flexibility to pounce on those opportunities. We could sign Skjei or Zadorov, but I don't think that we should paint ourselves into a corner again over a middling talent.

 

[Mike Liut]

I agree. There have been guys who have come available who could fix our defense. Ekholm (though probably not in-division, but you never know), Lindholm, Gavrikov, Sanheim, etc. But we didn't afford ourselves the flexibility to pounce on those opportunities. We could sign Skjei or Zadorov, but I don't think that we should paint ourselves into a corner again over a middling talent.

I’m only signing Zadorov if I can shed at least one of Krug, Faulk and Leddy.

 

[Blueston]

I’m only signing Zadorov if I can shed at least one of Krug, Faulk and Leddy.

they are all better than zadorov!!!

 

[Blueston]

i wonder if bolts would have any interest in buchy at 50% for sergachev? would give them cap room to sign stamkos and also extend buchy. i am talking myself into this being awesome deal for everybody. well other than sergachev, who probably isn't looking forward to leaving sunny fla for the midwest. but paired with parayko he could win norris once calvary arrives

 

[WeWentBlues]

i wonder if bolts would have any interest in buchy at 50% for sergachev? would give them cap room to sign stamkos and also extend buchy. i am talking myself into this being awesome deal for everybody. well other than sergachev, who probably isn't looking forward to leaving sunny fla for the midwest. but paired with parayko he could win norris once calvary arrives

Think we'd have to add to Buch

 

[Blueston]

Think we'd have to add to Buch

they can have any or all of our other defensemen off the roster besides parayko. and most of our forwards too. most of the future isn't here yet.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I would have kept mikkola and Joshua

I would've kept Mikkola, for sure, but Dak didn't show as much promise as he's delivered for VAN. In retrospect, yes, I would've kept Joshua.

 

[Mike Liut]

they are all better than zadorov!!!

At what? lol. Not defending. Moving the puck? Yes.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

At what? lol. Not defending. Moving the puck? Yes.

Leddy and Faulk(when not paired with Krug) are most certainly better than Zadorov at defending. If Zadorov were a top 4 defenseman, you think he'd have ended up in the top 4 in TOI on his team consistently, but he's only been a top 4 on a mediocre Chicago team in the 2020-2021 season. A 13 game playoff sample size doesn't change that he's been a bottom pairing quality guy for his entire career.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

guy who i think would actually be great fit next to him may just hit the market, and that is sergachev. his NTC doesn't kick in until this summer, he's signed for 7 more years, will turn 26 this summer. they just reacquired macdonough and are talking about extending hedman beyond next season. tampa has to move $ out if they are gonna keep stamkos. might sergachev actually be available? would be ironic that 2 years ago they moved mcd to sign sergachev extension to now reverse both ends of that. i don't imagine he will be cheap, but he could be guy we are all looking for.

I would love Sergachev, but I just can’t see them moving him. Hedman is approaching his mid 30s and won’t be playing this current level forever. McDonough is already in his mid 30s. They should be keeping and building around Sergwvhev.

 

[Majorityof1]

I would love Sergachev, but I just can’t see them moving him. Hedman is approaching his mid 30s and won’t be playing this current level forever. McDonough is already in his mid 30s. They should be keeping and building around Sergwvhev.

Absolutely. It's incredibly wishful thinking. Let's trade a pending UFA for 7 years if a guy we expect to win the Norris. That us nit happening. It's unlikely he'll be traded and it will be for a painful haul if he us

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Because he covets overpaid 4-5 defenders if they are the UFA who is on the market and they play D and he needs D. He will pursue them. He needs a #1 defenseman so the next best thing is to lock up a bad contract on a 4-6 defender if they will agree to come here. That's how he thinks. It's terrible, but he does think in this fashion. What's it going to cost him, his legacy is assured

I’ve seen him do this when he thought he had a Cup contender: sign UFA defender to try and keep a competitive roster as dangerous as possible. It would make little sense to look for guys who were still developing to help immediately.

Armstrong’s comments recently show that he doesn’t believe this roster is contending any time soon. I don’t have much expectation he would sign UFA defenders that compromise the future.

 

[Xerloris]

At what? lol. Not defending. Moving the puck? Yes.

I am quoting you here just so I can respond to some other things you said.

Parayko played with Edmundson.
Jashua wanted to go to UFA but we did offer him a contract
Mikkola f***ing sucks.

 

[Brian39]

I would love Sergachev, but I just can’t see them moving him. Hedman is approaching his mid 30s and won’t be playing this current level forever. McDonough is already in his mid 30s. They should be keeping and building around Sergwvhev.

I would be looking to build around him, but I get the argument in favor of moving him. Building around Sergachev is going to waste almost all of his prime. Tampa is in the last gasps of a window with a truly elite aging core and when that window closes the rebuild is going to be long and painful.

They have a bottom 5 prospect pool in the league. They don't pick until the end of the 4th round this year and they don't pick until the 3rd round in 2025 (unless they finish bottom 10 next season and then they can keep the pick and give up an unprotected 1st rounder in 2026). There isn't a wave of young talent coming. Even if you start a rebuild today, we are talking about a minimum of 3 years. And that assumes that you have a fire sale of the current core to start getting futures this summer.

The McDonagh acquisition makes it painfully clear that they will not be selling vets for futures this summer. So do you start next summer after taking 1 more swing in 2024/25? Let's say the rebuild takes 3 years from the start of that sale. Seems optimistic to me, but let's call it 3 years. Suddenly Sergachev is 30 with just 3 more years under contract. Point is 32 with 2 more years under contract. Even in this (unrealistic) 3 year turnaround, you've wasted half of Sergachev's remaining contract to build around him.

I don't look at building around Sergachev, Point, Cirelli, and Hagel as a winning strategy because they just don't have enough futures to actually build around them. I think the much better play is to do everything possible to try and squeeze every last drop out of the aging core with the understanding that once that window closes for good, the resulting rebuild will be long and painful. That means that Sergachev, Point, Cirelli, and Palat will not still be with the Lightning when the next window opens. And I think that is okay.

Following the McDonagh acquisition, I see a compelling argument to move Sergachev for a haul of assets to help the current team (including an older and cheaper good player) while freeing up cap space. They now have three top 4 LD and would very clearly get more in a deal for Sergachev than Hedman given their ages, contract term and Serg's lack of trade protection. They should be able to get a fantastic return if they move him.

There is very little that I wouldn't put on the table in a potential Sergachev deal.

 

[Brockon]

Leddy and Faulk(when not paired with Krug) are most certainly better than Zadorov at defending. If Zadorov were a top 4 defenseman, you think he'd have ended up in the top 4 in TOI on his team consistently, but he's only been a top 4 on a mediocre Chicago team in the 2020-2021 season. A 13 game playoff sample size doesn't change that he's been a bottom pairing quality guy for his entire career.

I think it should introduce some conversation - considering Zadorov played

#2 a, a. b,
#3 a, a. b, b, b**
#4 a*, a. b, b, b

* R1, G1 both Cole and Zadorov played 19:21 good for 3/4 - 0:10 behind #2 Hronek 19:31. Giving the worst possible interpretation here.

**R2, G7, played 21:56 #3 mins

22+ a, b
20-22 a, a, a, b, b, b
18-20 a, b
Under 18 a, b', b

b' exactly 18:00

R1 122:02, atoi 20:20
R2 139:58, atoi 20:00
Total 262:00, atoi 20:09

For 13 playoff games, Zadorov had no 3rd pairing minutes. He played #2 minutes for 3/13 games and was comfortably slotted in with 2nd pairing minutes for the other 10/13 games.

Small sample size, yes. But, these are huge games not regular season ones this should count for something in the discussion.

 

[Blueston]

I think it should introduce some conversation - considering Zadorov played

#2 a, a. b,
#3 a, a. b, b, b**
#4 a*, a. b, b, b

* R1, G1 both Cole and Zadorov played 19:21 good for 3/4 - 0:10 behind #2 Hronek 19:31. Giving the worst possible interpretation here.

**R2, G7, played 21:56 #3 mins

22+ a, b
20-22 a, a, a, b, b, b
18-20 a, b
Under 18 a, b', b

b' exactly 18:00

R1 122:02, atoi 20:20
R2 139:58, atoi 20:00
Total 262:00, atoi 20:09

For 13 playoff games, Zadorov had no 3rd pairing minutes. He played #2 minutes for 3/13 games and was comfortably slotted in with 2nd pairing minutes for the other 10/13 games.

Small sample size, yes. But, these are huge games not regular season ones this should count for something in the discussion.

That is how mediocre player get awful contracts, by desperate teams contorting themselves to show how mid guy is really core piece if you squint just right. The guy has been in league for years. Played for how many teams? And he has NEVER averaged 20 minutes/game over season. No coach has ever worked with him for extended period and thought he was top 4 d. No gm has ever resigned him for that role. Vancouver has lots of mid d, and he may well be better than Cole or soucy but all that says is he is pretty good 3rd pairing guy. You pay him more than 4mm aav, or sign him for more than 3-4 years, you will almost certainly regret it.

 

[Beauterham]

Just wondering, if we're talking about the Lightning. They traded two 1st+ for Brandon Hagel, a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th for Jeannot. The first was a hit, the second a huge miss.

Now I'm not advocating moving Neighbours and Toropchenko but looking at how much the Bolts traded for Hagel and Jeannot, I wonder how much Neighbours and Toropchenko would fetch. Again, not interested in moving them (well, Torpedo for the right package...), but I'm still curious at what their value would be if a team like the Bolts offered for them. I feel like Neighbours should fetch a little bit more than Hagel? (young scoring winger still on his ELC).

 

[bleedblue1223]

We all remember Calgary overpaying for Brouwer, right?

 

[Blueston]

Just wondering, if we're talking about the Lightning. They traded two 1st+ for Brandon Hagel, a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th for Jeannot. The first was a hit, the second a huge miss.

Now I'm not advocating moving Neighbours and Toropchenko but looking at how much the Bolts traded for Hagel and Jeannot, I wonder how much Neighbours and Toropchenko would fetch. Again, not interested in moving them (well, Torpedo for the right package...), but I'm still curious at what their value would be if a team like the Bolts offered for them. I feel like Neighbours should fetch a little bit more than Hagel? (young scoring winger still on his ELC).

Would we do neighbours+ for sergachev? Would they?

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'd be OK giving Zadorov a contract similar to what he has now to maybe play with Kessel.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Would we do neighbours+ for sergachev? Would they?

It would suck, and the plus couldn't be anything too significant, but you have to give to get, and i would do it for a shot at filling our biggest need.

 

[Brian39]

Would we do neighbours+ for sergachev?

No question that I'd make Neighbours the primary piece for Sergachev.

Sergachev is a top pair LHD who has shown a flash of being a legit #1D. He's a 100+ hit and block guy who has never had issues staying in the lineup despite playing that style (the leg break this year was his first time ever missing substantial time). He can QB a PP, but his even strength production is solid. He's a great passer, he is mobile, and he has good gap control.

He very much fills a position of high organizational need and he aligns perfectly with our timeline. It feels like he's been in the league forever, but he will only be 26 this summer and he is under contract for 7 more years.

He'd be a long-term solution to what is arguably the organization's biggest weakness.

I like Neighbours a lot. He had a great year, I love the way he plays and I think he will continue growing. But I think he is far more likely to be a Jaden Schwartz caliber guy than an elite winger. Nothing wrong with that. Schwartz was a hell of a player here and helped us win a Cup. You need guys like that. But you also have to be willing to trade guys like that if/when top pair D become available.

Would they?

Very doubtfull.

I'd wager that they will be looking for a fully actualized vet with salary retention plus futures that can either restock the cupboards or be flipped for rentals down the line.

My offer to them would start with Buch (50% retention) and the #16 pick. We'd have to add to that and I'd be happy to. Realistically, I'd be targeting a deal where we send those two assets along with another prospect who isn't Dvorsky/Snuggy/Lindstein.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If Tampa wants to make 1 or 2 more pushes, and view moving Sergachev as a way to make that happen, we have some interesting options. Faulk would 100% waive for them, Buch would waive for them, and if you are able to pull Sergachev in some sort of monster deal, I think Army does whatever retention is necessary to make it happen.

If there are interested in something like that, I think we could put together an attractive package, but I think a lot of others could too. I think they are an intriguing team to watch because they will be looking to extend their window, they aren't afraid of risk. Now, it's 100% possible that Stamkos does a Bergeron type deal, and they don't have to make any major moves.

 

[Brian39]

If Tampa wants to make 1 or 2 more pushes, and view moving Sergachev as a way to make that happen, we have some interesting options. Faulk would 100% waive for them, Buch would waive for them, and if you are able to pull Sergachev in some sort of monster deal, I think Army does whatever retention is necessary to make it happen.

If there are interested in something like that, I think we could put together an attractive package, but I think a lot of others could too. I think they are an intriguing team to watch because they will be looking to extend their window, they aren't afraid of risk. Now, it's 100% possible that Stamkos does a Bergeron type deal, and they don't have to make any major moves.

Faulk is an interesting thought, but I think that retaining millions of dollars over multiple seasons is a very, very tough sell for most NHL owners. On most these multi-year retentions for good players, we have seen teams pick up like 15% of a contract just to take the edge off the cap number. I think Tampa would need us to retain about 50% on Faulk for it to make sense for them.

However, this upcoming season is the year where Faulk's salary dive bombs, so the real-dollar cost to retention wouldn't be terrible. He "only" makes $13.75M real dollars over the last 3 years of his deal ($4.75M, $4.5M, and $4.5M).

50% retention on Faulk would cost the Blues $6.875M real dollars over the next 3 years. Retaining 50% on Buch would bring us up to $10.25M in retention. Asking the owner to pay $10M to guys playing for other teams in a 3 year period is a tough sell. Especially since Sergachev is set to make $11M this year and next.

It's too bad that Sergachev's NTC kicks in the same day his $6M bonus is owed this year. It would be extremely helpful financially if Tampa could pay that $6M bonus and then immediately trade him. I think that would be a completely reasonable ask from a team that is about to cut $10M in checks for salary retention in order to give you a cap benefit. If it was possible, I think Tampa would be very smart to pay the bonus 'in exchange' for a team retaining massive salary for guys going to Tampa.

I wonder if there is any precedent with a team trying to pay a bonus early. It is due on July 1, but I don't believe that there is anything in writing that would prevent a team from paying a bonus on June 30. Or even June 1. The PA isn't going to complain about a guy getting his bonus money early (while still residing in a tax-free state) before being traded.

Theoretically, could the Bolts pay his bonus a week early and then trade him before his NTC kicks in 7/1/24? Because in that scenario, I could see the Blues being willing to retain big dollars on Faulk.