Beer and Chips
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- Feb 5, 2018
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A #5 D and three goalies, I may be stretching it but looks like draft the ones that need the most development strategy.
And I,m going with the closest we could have from pros running the teams. I'd take that ahead of Michel Bergeron of this world that have not even watch 1 full game of Michkov or Reinbacher. Geez...not even 1 full game of any prospects...lol.Well I haven't did a poll, just judging the some of the discussion in this very thread and social media.
A top 2D doesn’t HAVE to light up the scoresheet, a Dman capable of playing solid in ALL game situations and rack up 25+ TOI IMO qualifies as a top-2D especially for playoff hockey w his wingspan + skating mobilityAlways wondering why we think the few represent the most. When I say consensus, I mean consensus. Not exceptions.
Which prooves my point that in no way MOST though Michkov was with Bedard. He wasn't even with Fantilli and Carlsson. You probably can make an argument with Smith.
When you pick top 5, I'm expecting a top 6 forward, a top 2 D or a No1 goalie. Not saying it always happen. But look at history, we can safely say that it does for at least 90% of the picks in the last 20 years.
Depends of your meaning of lighting it up. I'd say that to be top 2 on a great team, you need at least 50 points. Heiskanen isn't Makar. But look at every d-man that plays a lot of minutes...chances are those d-men will have at least 45 points. A bare minimum. While most top end guys will have way more than that.A top 2D doesn’t HAVE to light up the scoresheet, a Dman capable of playing solid in ALL game situations and rack up 25+ TOI IMO qualifies as a top-2D especially for playoff hockey w his wingspan + skating mobility
For all the talk about this years draft cuvée the vast majority are not defensively trustworthy.
The NHL had 29 dmen with 45+ points this year.Depends of your meaning of lighting it up. I'd say that to be top 2 on a great team, you need at least 50 points. Heiskanen isn't Makar. But look at every d-man that plays a lot of minutes...chances are those d-men will have at least 45 points. A bare minimum. While most top end guys will have way more than that.
45 pts is fairDepends of your meaning of lighting it up. I'd say that to be top 2 on a great team, you need at least 50 points. Heiskanen isn't Makar. But look at every d-man that plays a lot of minutes...chances are those d-men will have at least 45 points. A bare minimum. While most top end guys will have way more than that.
You should look at only playoff teams or teams within striking distance at the playoffs. A better filter would be to only look at teams that won a first round in the last two years-- something like that. There are a lot of rubbish teams in the NHL that have rubbish rosters and hopeless players in over their heads. In no way, shape, or form, would I expect the 64th scoring d-man in the NHL to be a top2 dman or the 32nd scoring centreman to be a 1st line C.The NHL had 29 dmen with 45+ points this year.
Top 2 dmen on a NHL team would be top 64 in the league, right?
64th dman in the NHL had 28 points the year.
Salbutera said top 2, you're talking about elite.
Again, you're defining elite top-2 dmen and 1st line c.You should look at only playoff teams or teams within striking distance at the playoffs. A better filter would be to only look at teams that won a first round in the last two years-- something like that. There are a lot of rubbish teams in the NHL that have rubbish rosters and hopeless players in over their heads. In no way, shape, or form, would I expect the 64th scoring d-man in the NHL to be a top2 dman or the 32nd scoring centreman to be a 1st line C.
There are probably no more than 30-40 top2 dmen across the NHL right now. Probably even fewer.
Depends on how you define it -- we can use de facto and de jure to distinguish between the two. By fact of the matter, yes on any given playing night there are 32 1st line Cs in the NHL and 64 top-2 dmen... But you'd have to put a gun to my head and cock the trigger for me to accept any argument that says David Desharnais was ever a 1st line C. In reality there are garbage rosters that have hopeless players playing 1st C or top2 D. Habs fans should know, we've been tanking for three years now with garbage rosters and hopeless players.Again, you're defining elite top-2 dmen and 1st line c.
There are 32 1st line Cs and 64 top-2 dmen in the modern NHL.
How is Michkov more Gaudreau than Kucherov? And let's not forget people were saying Kessel and Stamkos were guys you don't win cups with for age
Right, but we don't know if he's built for the NHL playoffs until he plays in them. You wouldn't think Briere, Kucherov, or Kane would be built for the playoffs but they dominate there. He's as competitive as they come, scores a lot from dirty areas, and hasn't disappointed in tournaments so far. Beyond that it's tough to say how he'll do in the playoffs, but nothing is suggesting he WON'T be good in themKucherov is a special kind of animal in the playoffs. He is legit one of the best playoff performers of all-time. Hard to compare him to that, but my point was that while Gaudreau is an offensive superstar, Wyatt is the kind of player that is built for the NHL playoffs.
I've literally read scouting reports saying that he regularly cheats offensivelyFor all we know, and from what I've seen, Michkov is one of the most intense/competitive players in the world.
For dmen on the final four teams this year:Depends of your meaning of lighting it up. I'd say that to be top 2 on a great team, you need at least 50 points. Heiskanen isn't Makar. But look at every d-man that plays a lot of minutes...chances are those d-men will have at least 45 points. A bare minimum. While most top end guys will have way more than that.
For dmen on the final four teams this year:
Rangers #2(pts) = 31p / #2 toi/g = 30p
Panthers #2(pts) = 33p / #2 toi/g = 39p
Oilers #2(pts) = 45p / #2 toi/g = 32p
Stars #2(pts) = 47p /#2 toi/g = 47p
None of the final 4 teams had a #2 dman with 50pts, only 1 of them had a #2 (in usage) that had 40+ points.
6 of the top 20 dmen in toi/g this season had <50pts.
Of course, I agree that we won't know until we know. I'm just speaking on how the Habs management team is likely projecting these guys for the draft.Right, but we don't know if he's built for the NHL playoffs until he plays in them. You wouldn't think Briere, Kucherov, or Kane would be built for the playoffs but they dominate there. He's as competitive as they come, scores a lot from dirty areas, and hasn't disappointed in tournaments so far. Beyond that it's tough to say how he'll do in the playoffs, but nothing is suggesting he WON'T be good in them
I’m sure guys like you will make sure we all do.It is not hard to predict that if/when Michkov turns into what he was projected, Habs current management will never hear the end of it.
So does Kucherov. Cheating offensively is a function of high octane offense.I've literally read scouting reports saying that he regularly cheats offensively
45 pts is fair
Pietrangelo is a 46 pts career avg, Slavin is a 37pts career avg both defensive powerhouses who puck transition w the best of them … I expect Redenbacher to be in that range
Many of the “top end” stat Ds are defensively flawed and those flaws tend to get exposed in playoffs
So does Kucherov. Cheating offensively is a function of high octane offense.
Of course, I agree that we won't know until we know. I'm just speaking on how the Habs management team is likely projecting these guys for the draft.
Heiskanen has been so dominant that it's hard to imagine teams not valuing players like him ahead of top line offensive forwards.
But this is just purely semantics and doesn't change the point @ReHabs is makingAgain, you're defining elite top-2 dmen and 1st line c.
There are 32 1st line Cs and 64 top-2 dmen in the modern NHL.
I wasn’t part of the Gomez crowd, were you? I wasn’t part of the Drouin/Sergachev crowd, were you? Those are the two examples that popped in my head while reading your message but I am sure there are a lot more.I’m sure guys like you will make sure we all do.
If they trade Reinbacher do they get Michkov back or is this conversation completely useless and was already old a year ago?
But this is just purely semantics and doesn't change the point @ReHabs is making
Is the rebuild complete if we have the 32nd best C, the 32nd best G, and the 63rd and 64th best D?
Of course not, but on your paper they would have everything they need
Pretty sure the Gomez vs McDonnah and Drouin vs Sergachev crowds were riffing off actual results of veteran players and not two completely unrelated guys who don’t even play the same position and have never touched nhl ice, but I think I get your point? I agreed with the RB pick at the time, I don’t remember many “omg not McDonnah or Sergachev” crowds at the time of those trades, only hindsight.I wasn’t part of the Gomez crowd, were you? I wasn’t part of the Drouin/Sergachev crowd, were you? Those are the two examples that popped in my head while reading your message but I am sure there are a lot more.
Michkov is relevant because the Habs might now even get a forward in the next draft or they might get someone with a lower potential like iginla, etc.
So does Kucherov. Cheating offensively is a function of high octane offense.
Again, of course we will only know when we know. This is all about projections.Comes down to if those D end up being what you think they can be. We got to be careful with naming guys like Makar and Heiskanen because for every hit like that, there are 20 misses.
So michkov isn't "one of the most intense/competitive players in the world" as you stated?So does Kucherov. Cheating offensively is a function of high octane offense.