Proposal: Habs 5th for Farabee and Frost

[bauer]

Frost and Farabee are 3rd liners at their peak (25 years old) ?

Farabee is a top 6 winger. scoring 22 goals and 50 points without getting top PP time is very solid. that's not 3rd line production. if Torts didn't mismanage the lineup so badly and the Flyers had a half decent PP, Farabee would be a 60-70 point player.

Frost is a 2C, probably on the low end but can still be a decent 2C.

i don't think either player has hit their peak. both have lots of room to get better.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Farabee is a top 6 winger. scoring 22 goals and 50 points without getting top PP time is very solid. that's not 3rd line production. if Torts didn't mismanage the lineup so badly and the Flyers had a half decent PP, Farabee would be a 60-70 point player.

Frost is a 2C, probably on the low end but can still be a decent 2C.

i don't think either player has hit their peak. both have lots of room to get better.

When you say low end, you mean digging deep, bottom of barrel kind of low end. i.e. Not a 2C

 

[HabsAddict]

Not sure if you're trolling or just genuinely clueless about the sport. Frost is firmly in the Newhook/Dach tier, Farabee is not far behind the Caulfield tier of players. I guess you think those are 3rd liners comparable to Dvorak and Roy?

Injuries aside, you waaay undervalued Dach. After we rebuild him from titanium, he is probably equal to Suzuki in overall talent. Possibly better by 25-26.

In terms of value I have Farabee overall value above Newhook and below CC. Note the word overall because I value 200ft game a d other aspects of the game besides scoring, Frost at Newhook.

Of course I will get roasted by both sides on this

 

[bauer]

When you say low end, you mean digging deep, bottom of barrel kind of low end. i.e. Not a 2C

i mean he's not the best 2C around but he's good enough to be one. he's not a 3rd liner.

 

[HabsAddict]

i mean he's not the best 2C around but he's good enough to be one. he's not a 3rd liner.

That is always about who is ahead of him and how good the team is.

He's not going to push Dach and Suzuki to the side. But he can fill a 2C if need be short term and obviously a pretty solid 3C. And I would say that he's a solid 3C even on a contender.

In theory we got Dvorak, but he's not as good, Newhook who is better as a winger, Evans who is a defensive specialist and some kids that are likely 3C in time.

The entire premise of this trade is that the Habs improve offense and Philly get a franchise defenseman. That's going to cost both sides and obviously respective fans won't like it.

 

[bud12]

Mtl will not trade the 5ov for players who have a career high of 50pts and 46pt at 24/25 years old. They need more quality than quantity and they will get that with the pick

 

[biturbo19]

Farabee is a top 6 winger. scoring 22 goals and 50 points without getting top PP time is very solid. that's not 3rd line production. if Torts didn't mismanage the lineup so badly and the Flyers had a half decent PP, Farabee would be a 60-70 point player.

Frost is a 2C, probably on the low end but can still be a decent 2C.

i don't think either player has hit their peak. both have lots of room to get better.

I think a lot of people massively underrate Farabee. He's effectively a Top Line caliber even strength producer. That's huge. I said it in some other thread about him...but his even strength production is well within the Top-100 Forwards in the league. Top-80 actually. He's right there with guys like Giroux, Buchnevich, Kempe, Kreider, Hintze et al.

I don't know that he's necessarily exactly what Montreal needs...but he's a hugely valuable player imo. I'd kill to have a guy like that on the Canucks.



Frost on the other hand...i sort of disagree on. Maybe you can call him a "low end" #2C...but i wouldn't even stretch that far. I'd just call him a "tweener". He's one of those guys who...if he's your 2C...you always want to upgrade. And he's useless as a 3C. He's massively more powerplay and offensive minutes with quality linemates dependent. He needs guys like Tippett and Konecny who can drive their own offensive production to pick up shrapnel secondary points. And he needs to be in that Top-6C role with a buttload of top Powerplay minutes to do anything. But if he's your 2C playing those minutes...you're not a good team and you're weak down the middle. That's not a "contender caliber 2C".



It's wild to me how a lot of people seem to view the "value" of these two, comparatively. And have it completely flipped.


But the fact that Frost really isn't that great, is why this makes next to no sense to me for the Habs...especially for the 5th overall pick. Even if that's an awkward spot without an obvious Forward to select. But heck, Berkly Catton alone is a massively better, higher upside version of Frost by himself. Even the added (underrated) value of Farabee isn't going to offset that.

 

[MisterT]

Well if i put the same kind of proposal it would look like:

J, Roy + Dvorak for #5 ?

Farabee = Roy (Roy will probably be better)
Frost = Dvorak (Frost will probably better)

Do you think anyone does that ?? no

Sure. This is a step up for your usual garbage.

 

[HuGo Sham]

neither of these guys move the needle for a 5th overall. Not even close. farabee is an interesting player but his value is nowhere close to 5th overall. frost is maybe a low-end 2C - maybe. But certainly not for any team with playoff or cup aspirations. habs have Dach, Newhook, Dvorak, Evans and kapanen / Beck coming @C and the 5th pick. ..Frost is a 40 pt C. Farabee, a 20 goal scorer. Not worth the 5th imo.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Farabee is a top 6 winger. scoring 22 goals and 50 points without getting top PP time is very solid. that's not 3rd line production. if Torts didn't mismanage the lineup so badly and the Flyers had a half decent PP, Farabee would be a 60-70 point player.

Frost is a 2C, probably on the low end but can still be a decent 2C.

i don't think either player has hit their peak. both have lots of room to get better.

perhaps ,but I'd prefer the young, cost-controlled forward, capable of 30+ goals in Demidov, Lindstrom. Iginla, etc...

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

middle 6 players getting ton of icetime because of a rebuilt for a 5oa.
Yeah no thanks. We have those players already.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Rather keep the 5ov. That kind of player doesn't move the needle at all.

Yeah, Habs are not doing this kind of move.

 

[Gaud]

Injuries aside, you waaay undervalued Dach. After we rebuild him from titanium, he is probably equal to Suzuki in overall talent. Possibly better by 25-26.

In terms of value I have Farabee overall value above Newhook and below CC. Note the word overall because I value 200ft game a d other aspects of the game besides scoring, Frost at Newhook.

Of course I will get roasted by both sides on this

I agree with Dach being undervalued, though so far the sample is small. Dach had such a good camp this season and some good looks the season before that the debate in Mtl was "who is the first C in Montreal". I dont think anyone was expecting Suzuki to have a great season like he did, though.

Dach and Slaf were showing real chemistry, which to me meant a great, BIG 2nd line. I dont see any of the two players taking Dach's spot on the top 6.

Considering Dach went for a 13th OA and a 3rd rounder, id say the OP is a little .... underwhelming. I'd rather see whats at #5. In fact, i keep reading Mtl is big on Iginla, so i wouldnt mind trading down for him. I am also Ok with them picking another D, if that's what they think is best. I think Value is more important than need.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Absolutely flyers say yes

 

[Frank Drebin]

The same management that took Reinbacher over Michkov?

Yeah same one.

 

[habsterr]

Terrible original proposal.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I think a lot of people massively underrate Farabee. He's effectively a Top Line caliber even strength producer. That's huge. I said it in some other thread about him...but his even strength production is well within the Top-100 Forwards in the league. Top-80 actually. He's right there with guys like Giroux, Buchnevich, Kempe, Kreider, Hintze et al.

I don't know that he's necessarily exactly what Montreal needs...but he's a hugely valuable player imo. I'd kill to have a guy like that on the Canucks.



Frost on the other hand...i sort of disagree on. Maybe you can call him a "low end" #2C...but i wouldn't even stretch that far. I'd just call him a "tweener". He's one of those guys who...if he's your 2C...you always want to upgrade. And he's useless as a 3C. He's massively more powerplay and offensive minutes with quality linemates dependent. He needs guys like Tippett and Konecny who can drive their own offensive production to pick up shrapnel secondary points. And he needs to be in that Top-6C role with a buttload of top Powerplay minutes to do anything. But if he's your 2C playing those minutes...you're not a good team and you're weak down the middle. That's not a "contender caliber 2C".



It's wild to me how a lot of people seem to view the "value" of these two, comparatively. And have it completely flipped.


But the fact that Frost really isn't that great, is why this makes next to no sense to me for the Habs...especially for the 5th overall pick. Even if that's an awkward spot without an obvious Forward to select. But heck, Berkly Catton alone is a massively better, higher upside version of Frost by himself. Even the added (underrated) value of Farabee isn't going to offset that.

Good post. The ironic thing is Frost hasn’t even been good on the PP, ever. He can’t PP, can’t PK, is ok at EV, that’s a 3rd line guy, if that.

If MTL sees more and does this trade then flyers should jump at it

 

[pth2]

Moving the 5th outright has to mean some young high potential talent joins the org. Neither Frost nor Farabee fit the bill.

If trading down while still keeping a top 10 pick or so, the price goes down... but will still be painful to the acquiring team.

 

[Mersss]

Habs don't trade the pick to Philly unless Foerster and their 1st is coming Habs way.

Same for NJ or any team that wants to move up to that spot. Itll cost them their 1st and a young (22 and younger) middle 6 roster player. Habs can add some 2nd rder or B prospects to the deal like Strubble, Barron, Farrel

 

[Hockeypete49]

Montreal has all sorts of depth. They need a couple star level players. Use the 5th and trust your scouts. Thank god the actual management knows this.

Is this the same management group that took Reinbacher over Michkov, over Leonard? The Flyers and Caps say Thank you

 

[Qwijibo]

Is this the same management group that took Reinbacher over Michkov, over Leonard? The Flyers and Caps say Thank you

Yea. Because we know exactly tly what sort of career all 3 of those players will have already. You're like the braintrusts that declared Slafkovsky the worst 1st OA ever. Only to have him play at nearly a ppg in the second half of this season and set a franchise record for for points in a season by a teenager.

 

[Hockeypete49]

Yea. Because we know exactly tly what sort of career all 3 of those players will have already. You're like the braintrusts that declared Slafkovsky the worst 1st OA ever. Only to have him play at nearly a ppg in the second half of this season and set a franchise record for for points in a season by a teenager.

No clue why you are bringing this up as it has no bearing on this conversation. How did it impact the Flyers?

 

[Qwijibo]

No clue why you are bringing this up as it has no bearing on this conversation. How did it impact the Flyers?

Because you're acting like you know Michkov and Leonard will definitely be better NHL'ers than Reinbacker. We're talking about 19 year old kids that haven't even laced up their skates in the NHL yet. Maybe wait a few years before trying to dunk on Montreal for taking Reinbacker at 5

 

[bud12]

Is this the same management group that took Reinbacher over Michkov, over Leonard? The Flyers and Caps say Thank you

And? Do you think Reinbacher isn't good? Taking him over Leonard is not a bad move at all.

 

[JRichard]

And? Do you think Reinbacher isn't good? Taking him over Leonard is not a bad move at all.

Today its not.

But looking at roster pretty obvious you need more help at W vs D:

D Matheson, Savard, Guhle, Struble, Harris, Arber, Kovacevic, Barron. Thats 8

Hutson, Mailloux, Reinbacher. 11 Just the bigger names.

Need 6

W) CC, Slafkovsky, Newhook (30 pts) and?

Need 8
—

Get help at W… and dont draft a D at 5th oa