Here's a good one- Does Sergei Bobrovsky get into the Hall of Fame?

[Crosby2010]

Sure he has two Vezinas, but there are a lot of goalies in this era with a Vezina or two that aren't getting in. Rask, Rinne, Miller, Thomas, etc. None get in. Bobrovsky has that Curtis Joseph-type of playoff portfolio. A great first round goalie, but that's it. His playoff resume is thin, very thin actually. Right now if a guy like Mike Liut never got in then how do these guys get in? Also, you've got Barrasso, Richter, Joseph, Moog, Beezer and co. possibly never getting in. So I'll say no.

 

[IceManCat]

With three Vezinas and two cups as the bar, which goalies would make it?

Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, that's it since the Vezina criteria became what they are today in 1981.

So, unless you think it should be the Hall of Truly Superstar Elite for goalies and Hall of the Very Good for skaters as it is sliding into, that bar is way too high.

That last part is what I was getting at. I think he's in the Hall of very good not in the hall of the very best. Also he played in a tight defensive system that historically inflates the stats and performances of goalies playing in it.

 

[Shinjuku Calling]

Of course not.

 

[Leksand]

That last part is what I was getting at. I think he's in the Hall of very good not in the hall of the very best.

Yes right now, it’s hard to make a case for him being among the very best for sure. It’s just that’s not the criteria for skaters. I’m not suggesting you can just let things slide by pointing to one or two weaker inductees, but it is definitely an issue as it at least feels like goalies are underrepresented in the Hall.

One thing with goalies is that getting trophies and consistency don’t correlate as much. Like Tim Thomas has two Vezinas and a Conn Smythe but I don’t think he is seen as having been a very good goalie for many seasons like Luongo or Lundqvist. But is there anyone ever with two Norrises and a Conn Smythe who’s sort of a flash in the pan? (And I realize Tim Thomas and the Hall has other dimensions but that’s beside this last point)

 

[IceManCat]

Yes right now, it’s hard to make a case for him being among the very best for sure. It’s just that’s not the criteria for skaters. I’m not suggesting you can just let things slide by pointing to one or two weaker inductees, but it is definitely an issue as it at least feels like goalies are underrepresented in the Hall.

One thing with goalies is that getting trophies and consistency don’t correlate as much. Like Tim Thomas has two Vezinas and a Conn Smythe but I don’t think he is seen as having been a very good goalie for many seasons like Luongo or Lundqvist. But is there anyone ever with two Norrises and a Conn Smythe who’s sort of a flash in the pan? (And I realize Tim Thomas and the Hall has other dimensions but that’s beside this last point)

I would actually rather Luongo get in than Bob. Mostly because I think Luo played at a higher level over a longer period of time. The Vezina trophy itself can be arbitrary since it can be influenced by the performance of the competition and outside factors not just Bob. Now that can be an argument for or against Bob, but I think in this case it works against him.

 

[The Colonel]

Bob certainly has impeccable timing. He is putting on a show now on a big stage.

 

[The Colonel]

Leaf fans that used to make fun of Bob, get ready

It may be happening...

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Goalies are judged completely differently. There are many superior goaltenders who haven't made it and possibly never will.

 

[Prominence Problem]

Weird, I was just about to propose this question on the Florida boards

If Florida wins the cup this year, then I definitely think he has a resume to do it.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The Hockey Hall of Pretty Good Skaters and Mega Elite Goaltenders.

 

[ViD]

The Hockey Hall of Pretty Good Skaters and Mega Elite Goaltenders.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Weird, I was just about to propose this question on the Florida boards

If Florida wins the cup this year, then I definitely think he has a resume to do it.

If they win the Cup, he's definitely getting in.

2 Vezinas
1 Cup
Conn Smythe(or at least definitely a contender)
He'll retire with over 400 wins

Foregone conclusion

 

[Aurinko]

If they win the Cup, he's definitely getting in.

2 Vezinas
1 Cup
Conn Smythe(or at least definitely a contender)
He'll retire with over 400 wins

Foregone conclusion

I can support that.

If he carries Panthers team with that bad of a defense to the cup, thats the biggest feather a goalie can wear in his hat .

 

[Felidae]

Let's actually look at his goalie stats and award records.

Vezina record: 1, 1, 8, 8, 9

Hart record: 3, 5, 15

Sv% finishes: 1, 2, 9

Simply put, he has the peak but not the prime. There is not much there outside his 2 Vezina wins, and the last time he had any Vezina votes was 5 years ago. He is already 34.

Unless he has a career resurgence, he simply hasn't been elite for long enough to warrant a HHOF induction.

He's essentially Tim Thomas with a slightly longer regular season prime, but without the excellent postseason career

and if by any chance he wins a Conn Smythe right now, it probably still won't be enough considering Thomas also has a Smythe and is yet to be inducted.

Lastly, the standard for goaltenders is unusually high , so even if you think he's better than Thomas, there are still plenty of goaltenders with lengthier primes than either of them who have not been inducted. Barrasso, Cujo, Kiprussof, JVB are the most notable names.

 

[JD1]

Toronto voters basically control access to the Hall.

Bob's a show in. Vote Bob in. The historical narrative becomes losing to a Hall of Fame goalie

 

[The Colonel]

Sure he has two Vezinas, but there are a lot of goalies in this era with a Vezina or two that aren't getting in. Rask, Rinne, Miller, Thomas, etc. None get in. Bobrovsky has that Curtis Joseph-type of playoff portfolio. A great first round goalie, but that's it. His playoff resume is thin, very thin actually. Right now if a guy like Mike Liut never got in then how do these guys get in? Also, you've got Barrasso, Richter, Joseph, Moog, Beezer and co. possibly never getting in. So I'll say no.

This response confuses me. Aside from Tim Thomas who has been discussed at length in this thread you listed a bunch of goalies with one Vezina.

That's half the Vezinas Bob has.

 

[Crosby2010]

This response confuses me. Aside from Tim Thomas who has been discussed at length in this thread you listed a bunch of goalies with one Vezina.

That's half the Vezinas Bob has.

That's correct, but I said a "Vezina or two". And the other goalies seem to have another year where they were close to the Vezina, and maybe even were a 2nd team all-star. Bobrovsky's story isn't fully written yet, so we'll see with him, but there just isn't a lot of goalies in this century that people consider HHOF worthy. I think most agree Luongo deserved it, I am pretty sure everyone is on board with Lundqvist and that leaves Price who most seem to like and Fleury who has a variety of responses his way. Other than those 4 guys, there isn't that goalie that seems to get the nod to get in. We all know Vasi gets in eventually but he's younger and has much of his career still ahead of him.

 

[The Colonel]

That's correct, but I said a "Vezina or two". And the other goalies seem to have another year where they were close to the Vezina, and maybe even were a 2nd team all-star. Bobrovsky's story isn't fully written yet, so we'll see with him, but there just isn't a lot of goalies in this century that people consider HHOF worthy. I think most agree Luongo deserved it, I am pretty sure everyone is on board with Lundqvist and that leaves Price who most seem to like and Fleury who has a variety of responses his way. Other than those 4 guys, there isn't that goalie that seems to get the nod to get in. We all know Vasi gets in eventually but he's younger and has much of his career still ahead of him.

Yeah that makes sense. Certainly the hall seems to be less giving with goalies for whatever reason. I think if Bob wins a cup as a starter he will have enough to get in.

 

[featherhawk]

will tell you when his career comes to a close

 

[pantherbot]

I think the issue with goalies is that people value consistency more than peak performance for goalies. I'd much rather have a goalie on my team with consistent .915 throughout their years vs. one that goes .900 to .930 up and down.

But most goalies are inconsistent across years and so they can win a Vezina or two, but still not be reliable year in and year out.

Luongo is a great example of consistently above average goaltending which didn't get him a vezina or even a cup, but a 1st year nomination to the hall. Bob, he's to and down so there's a debate.

 

[Crosby2010]

Yeah that makes sense. Certainly the hall seems to be less giving with goalies for whatever reason. I think if Bob wins a cup as a starter he will have enough to get in.

There is what I think is a rightly high standard for goalies. We know for forwards the ship has sailed for the standards to be high and to a lesser extent defensemen. But they still abide by a strict code with goalies. Think about it, how many times do you hear complaints about a goalie in the Hall that shouldn't be in there? Rarely.

 

[Toby91ca]

Simply put, he has the peak but not the prime. There is not much there outside his 2 Vezina wins, and the last time he had any Vezina votes was 5 years ago. He is already 34.

I think that is the thing here. Goalies, generally, are hard to find in terms of ones that are consistent year in and year out, that tends to be what separates the greats (hall of famers) from others. Lots of guys get really hot for a period of time, but then fizzle out.

 

[Cape]

This response confuses me. Aside from Tim Thomas who has been discussed at length in this thread you listed a bunch of goalies with one Vezina.

That's half the Vezinas Bob has.

Rinne has 1 Vezina and 3 other top 3 places. Two All Star selections. Same as Bob. One deep playoff run, which Bob doesn’t yet have. He ain’t getting in. Bob has to do more.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Maybe if he wins Florida a cup this year.

 

[NVious]

With this run he is a lock unless Carolina beats him 7-0 in the next 4.