Joel Edmundson

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Is following up his past season where he set the analytics era record for worst defensive season in NHL history by taking it one step further and being on pace to set the record to worst analytics in NHL history. This man makes Rasmus Ristolainen look like a Makar/McAvoy esque analytics darling. For reference, Joel Edmundson's even strength impact is comparable to three negative McDavids.

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[Boris Le Tigre]

Pretty tall though

 

[Colezuki]

Is following up his past season where he set the analytics era record for worst defensive season in NHL history by taking it one step further and being on pace to set the record to worst analytics in NHL history. This man makes Rasmus Ristolainen look like a Makar/McAvoy esque analytics darling. For reference, Joel Edmundson's even strength impact is comparable to three negative McDavids.
View attachment 640257

He's having to play too far up in the lineup, he suffered an injury pre-training camp and had to join the team in November with no training camp described as "trying to catch a moving train", and finally he's been playing with one of Harris/Xhekaj/Guhle all year. All in all not the greatest year for him but a few samples of why he's looked worse.

I'd say his play has improved over the last 10-15 games from the start of the season however based purely on the eyetest, shame these cards are for full season would love to see progression over the season

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Chuck Fletcher

 

[Canadienna]

The only evidence this needs to be debunked is that nobody in their right mind would give the other team three Mcdavids over playing Edmundson.

 

[SwedishFire]

Worth a low 1st?

 

[Sam de Mtl]

Welp, if any proof was needed that analytics are useless, that is a very convincing one.

 

[abo9]

Paint me surprised. Is he by far the worst on the Habs - ie is it a result of team play?

Wasnt he Petry's partner when Petry put up his best seasons?

Edmunson used to be a reliable defensive defenseman not long ago. Read 4th or worst D. Havent watched Mtl this year, but I think being slotted as the best or 2nd best dman is just not his place

 

[Captain97]

Again he's always had terrible analytics like virtually all defensive dmen. So did Shea Weber, according to advance stats Shea Weber was a bottom pairing dman with the Habs.

+ we are using him basically as a 1d when he should be a 4.

Advanced stats in hockey is still very flawed for defensive play. We need player/puck tracking data before we can get good at it.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Welp, if any proof was needed that analytics are useless, that is a very convincing one.

This is a bit ham handed and far too broad.

It’s possible to say that analytics have deficiencies with certain player types without jumping to “analytics are useless”.

You may as well jump from “Jonathan Cheechoo scored 56 goals one year” to “goals are useless”.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Again he's always had terrible analytics like virtually all defensive dmen. So did Shea Weber, according to advance stats Shea Weber was a bottom pairing dman with the Habs.

+ we are using him basically as a 1d when he should be a 4.

Advanced stats in hockey is still very flawed for defensive play. We need player/puck tracking data before we can get good at it.

Incorrect, most analytics had Weber as a well above average 2nd pair dman and below average top pairing dman.

 

[Captain97]

Incorrect, most analytics had Weber as a well above average 2nd pair dman and below average top pairing dman.
View attachment 641923

So the analytics still have him as worse than he was. Weber was a number 1 dman until the season he retired.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

So the analytics still have him as worse than he was. Weber was a number 1 dman until the season he retired.

His last season he had 19 points and -4 in 48 games averaging 22 mins a night. Seems like the above average 2nd pair dman rating is right in line with the play.

 

[Captain97]

His last season he had 19 points and -4 in 48 games averaging 22 mins a night. Seems like the above average 2nd pair dman rating is right in line with the play.

Fantastic did you watch him play?

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Fantastic did you watch him play?

I did for 7 games and playoffs yes. He looked like a low end 1st pair/high end 2nd pair dman based on eye test who was significantly worse than his Nashville form. You're on drugs if you think a real #1 dman would play 22 mins a night and go minus on the sheet while pacing for 30 points.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Fantastic did you watch him play?

The absolute beauty of "did you watch him play" is that you can follow it up with any opinion (good or bad or horrible) and no one can refute it.

"Watch him play" is full of so many behavioral fallacies that you could write a book about it (Daniel Kahneman did, it's called "Thinking Fast and Slow", and I can't recommend it enough).

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I'm not saying that analytics is the sole solution, by the way - in fact, I'm specifically not saying that. Analytics and scouting complement one another quite well (and often, the strengths of one help ameliorate the deficiencies of the other).

 

[Sam de Mtl]

This is a bit ham handed and far too broad.

It’s possible to say that analytics have deficiencies with certain player types without jumping to “analytics are useless”.

You may as well jump from “Jonathan Cheechoo scored 56 goals one year” to “goals are useless”.

Agreed. But this was one very bad take.

And the op claimed it was a continuation of 2 years running being the worst.

If anything, he didn't play as well this year when he came back from injury, but he was very good last year.

Your comment was definitely more level headed than mine. But wheres the fun in level headedness?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Your comment was definitely more level headed than mine. But wheres the fun in level headedness?

I'm honored in that I've been here since 2005 and this is the first time someone's implied that I am level headed

 

[Mickey Marner]

I think it just proves that his situation impacts him more than he impacts his situation. Going from +22 defensive GSVA in 2021 to -44.5 defensive GSVA in 2022 is absurd. That would be like going from Patrick Kane to John Scott offensively, in one season.

 

[Mrb1p]

Hes horrible and hes soft as f*** to boot. Just a very good vet to have around.

 

[Soundwave]

I think it just proves that his situation impacts him more than he impacts his situation. Going from +22 defensive GSVA in 2021 to -44.5 defensive GSVA in 2022 is absurd. That would be like going from Patrick Kane to John Scott offensively, in one season.

Couldn't it simply be that his back is done?

He missed 58 games because of it last year, that's not some minor injury.

Georges Laraque was on the radio yesterday and he seems to be plugged in somewhat to the Habs and he said Edmundson's back is toast.

Kinda hard to play hockey with a bad back.

 

[Moose Head]

At the beginning of the year I thought lightening could strike twice and he could get a Chiarot type return, but he’s been very bad this season so I don’t see them getting more than a 2nd. Didn’t realize his back might be shot.

 

[Natey]

I did for 7 games and playoffs yes. He looked like a low end 1st pair/high end 2nd pair dman based on eye test who was significantly worse than his Nashville form. You're on drugs if you think a real #1 dman would play 22 mins a night and go minus on the sheet while pacing for 30 points.

While I agree his last season wasn't very good, the bolded is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

While I agree his last season wasn't very good, the bolded is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

What's especially dumb about it that makes it stand out from you having read posts on HFBoards for almost twenty years, let alone what you've read off-board?

That's not even the worst part of his specific post - it's technically flaming to say that those who disagree with you "are on drugs" (although even then, you managed to equal him with your response).

Please elaborate.