Leon Draisaitl is one of the best playoff performers in NHL history

[SmytheKing]

Yeah, I tend to agree. But maybe that isn't fair? Those dynasty era teams were just stacked - and even 1990 was surprisingly good (and had Ranford playing lights-out). It feels a little wrong to judge McDavid and Draisaitl for their team's shortcomings.

Still, it's hard to argue against Mess's hardware case. 5 (+1) Cups, a Conn Smythe, and two Harts and two Pearsons (1 each as an Oiler, 1 each as a Ranger).

It's a tough call. Pretend the Oilers had just won 4 cups in 5 years and Draisaitl won a Conn Smythe for one of them. Then, McDavid bolts to another team in their division and two years later, not only does Draisaitl win the MVP, but he leads the Oilers to the cup after sweeping McDavid's team and beating the best team in the league in the Finals. Doesn't that elevate him regardless of the team he's on? That's what Messier did and I remember how huge a thing it was at the time.

I just think McDavid still has work to do to pass him. I'm not an Oilers fan though so it's not my place to say, but seems a little bit soon to put him up there.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I think there will be a time when Draisaitl needs to go to a team where he's the clear no.1 guy. Staying with McDavid is the comfortable thing to do, but he will never get full credit for anything the Oilers do, but will always get a lot of the blame for what they don't do.

 

[PaulD]

He may be on his way, but as mentioned he will need to prove it in the later rounds, which he hasn't yet.

As to Ovechkin, I don't consider him among the "best playoff performers in NHL history" either.

yea, we know you are hard to impress......can only imagine how low down the the list you have every first line Maple Leaf for the last 20 years..... been to second round once and they all sucked that particular week.

 

[PaulD]

Do you still unironically think this? One of the most dominant defensive games from a forward I’ve seen in years last night

The man is reaching so far to cut up Draisaitl.....he's trying way too hard.

 

[swiftwin]

No it's not... It's like saying someone has one of the fastest top end speeds in the world when you look at their 100 time split in a 4x1. You keep trying to shift the goalposts when people are simply saying he performs extremely well in the post-season. Nobody's trying to rank him above Roy & Gretzky.

I'm the one shifting the goalposts??? Did you read the thread title?

Of course he's performing well. But that's not what the thread title says.

 

[PaulD]

I'm the one shifting the goalposts??? Did you read the thread title?

Of course he's performing well. But that's not what the thread title says.

He is 4th all time for points in a play off series. 17
So he's in the conversation.

Several guys trying to throw shade on Draisaitl.
Reminds of the guys that were always slagging Gretz, Then Mario, then Sid, .....

then were made to eat their words.

Me included...... on Gretz.
Thought he was too much a light weight and wouldnt last.

 

[Fourier]

Do you really put McDavid above Messier? I know he's more talented...but I mean, it's Mark Messier. He led the Oilers to a cup two years after Gretzky left. Just feels like McDavid still needs to do more to pass Messier.

Here you go:

Messier vs McDavid

This poll comes about from a discussion on the main board. The question is intentionally vague since different people will define "better" in very different ways. If you want to add your reason for choosing one over the other that would be great. I am also splitting the pool to see how the...

forums.hfboards.com

There are some good takes in this thread if you are interested.

 

[PaulD]

He may be on his way, but as mentioned he will need to prove it in the later rounds, which he hasn't yet.

As to Ovechkin, I don't consider him among the "best playoff performers in NHL history" either.

Agree , when it comes to play offs OV is no Draisaitl.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

You have a team of marathoners. To win the marathon, all 20 runners must cross the finish line before any other team of 20.

Draisaitl finishes in record time and circles back to carry many of his teammates across the line. Unfortunately, another team was able to finish completely under their own steam before Draisaitl is able to carry his last team members across.

Apparently, this means that Draisaitl, not his teammates are inadequate in the marathon.

It's not a perfect analogy, but it's 26 miles better than the ridiculous Usain Bolt comparison.

 

[SmytheKing]

Here you go:

Messier vs McDavid

This poll comes about from a discussion on the main board. The question is intentionally vague since different people will define "better" in very different ways. If you want to add your reason for choosing one over the other that would be great. I am also splitting the pool to see how the...

forums.hfboards.com

There are some good takes in this thread if you are interested.

Thanks for that. I read through a bunch and this post here kinda summed up what I keep thinking about:

Messier vs McDavid

The only player in NHL history to captain 2 teams to a championship. Only one. Sure, generally speaking, judging a player solely on team accomplishments is silly, but to captain the ship, on 2 different teams, one of them Gretzky-less, is an omnipotent achievement. Gretzky never touched the...

forums.hfboards.com

The post was saying Greatest Oiler of all time. Not the most talented. That implies, at least to me, that it's about more than the skill of the player. Messier was highly skilled, but also mean, and also a leader, and also had that "it" factor. I don't know though. It's not like it's a huge gap, but it's still a gap to me. McDavid, as talented as he is, hasn't gotten it done.

I know the cup is a team thing, but leaders lead their teams further than the playoffs. Ovechkin dealt with largely the same thing. It probably wasn't fair then, and it isn't fair now...but you're talking about putting him above one of the legends of the game and, for me, he's not quite there.

Lastly, this isn't a McDavid thread anyway and I don't want to derail any further than I already have.

 

[wetcoast]

Best Oilers all time

Gretz
McDavid
Messier
Coffee
Kurri

Draisaitl legit shot at coming right after Messier ahead of Coffee for number 4 on the all time Oiler greats

There is an argument that as an individual player that he is going to end up 3rd.

 

[wetcoast]

Do you really put McDavid above Messier? I know he's more talented...but I mean, it's Mark Messier. He led the Oilers to a cup two years after Gretzky left. Just feels like McDavid still needs to do more to pass Messier.

Assuming that Moose led the Oilers to 2 SC and not bothering to look at the 2 teams minus Moose and McDavid, does that accomplishment really outweigh all those Hart's and Art Ross trophies?

 

[PaulD]

There is an argument that as an individual player that he is going to end up 3rd.

agreed

 

[McVespa99]

Feel free to bring that up in the "Mackinnon, Kucherov, Panarin, Kane, Rantanen, Pastrnak, Kreider, etc are among the best playoff performers in NHL history" thread.

The reality is that the Oilers have been trying to separate McDrai at ES to the obvious benefit of creating offensive depth for many seasons with a whole plethora of different wingers. Having two franchise C's/two very good top lines has been a key to many Cup winners. It hasn't worked yet. This can be pointed to, among other things, as a reason the Oilers haven't had the level of playoff success one might expect despite having a generational talent and a superstar level talent at arguably the most key position.

McDavid usually doesn't lose as much effectiveness at ES when he is not playing with Draisaitl so it begs the question as to how Draisaitl can be placed among the all-time greats if he cannot carry his own line consistently enough where the coach doesn't give up on rolling lines with them separated so quick.

I do think he steps it up in the playoffs but not anymore than his peers like MacKinnon and Kucherov. And I cannot see him hitting the same numbers without McDavid.

So he deserves some attention for what he does but not to the level of the thread title.



His most common "not with McDavid" linemates in the 2022 playoffs were Hyman and Yamamoto. Last year it was Hyman, Yamamoto and RNH. This year it's Kane, RNH, and Foegele.

Anyone arguing that Drai is not an amazing playoff performer at this point is just out to lunch. And Drai is wayyy ahead of all those other guys you mention in playoff performance. Not team success. Personal performance. Does Mac hit the same numbers without Rants? Such a lame argument to try and discredit one of the best playoff performers of all time

Funny how my boy Crosby has been able to create depth from wingers even worse than the wrong names you are throwing out to try to excuse Drai's inablity to carry a line on his own.

Drai carries his own line and still puts up huge playoff numbers. Noone needs to excuse anything. His numbers speak for themselves. One of the top 5 playoff producers in the history of the league. Period

 

[SmytheKing]

Assuming that Moose led the Oilers to 2 SC and not bothering to look at the 2 teams minus Moose and McDavid, does that accomplishment really outweigh all those Hart's and Art Ross trophies?

Depends on how you define “greatest”. Wendell Clark didn’t win a bunch of awards but I’m pretty sure leafs fans would consider him one of the greatest maple leafs of all time. Same applies here. Also, to reiterate, this is really a decision for oilers fans. It’s just my opinion that he’s still got work to do. He’s a more talented player for sure, but “greater” than Messier? Not to me. Not yet.

 

[wetcoast]

Depends on how you define “greatest”. Wendell Clark didn’t win a bunch of awards but I’m pretty sure leafs fans would consider him one of the greatest maple leafs of all time. Same applies here. Also, to reiterate, this is really a decision for oilers fans. It’s just my opinion that he’s still got work to do. He’s a more talented player for sure, but “greater” than Messier? Not to me. Not yet.

We will agree to disagree here.

 

[SaltNPeca]

I'm a die-hard Oiler fan, and its REALLY f***ing hard to watch these games that drops the puck at 11pm our time. It's safe to assume only Die-Hard fans are watching the games, and everyone else just goes off of lazy narratives (including the Toronto-based media)

Just let them.

The cope helps them sleep at night, while snuggling their Matthews plushies.

ha! I've been >10 years in CET. Saturday was a 02:00 start, otherwise many 03-04:00 starts, which means more like 04:30 puck drop!

I simply can't watch a lot of weekday season games, but games in EST and weekend (esp. matinee) are hella watchable over here in Europe.

Late starts is no excuse to pump false narratives and incorrect criticisms. Still I support it for my own entertainment. @HockeyVirus "He doesn't play a lick of defense. " is a simply wonderful comment considering Leon's complete game in Game 7 incl. several great stick plays, blocking shots, checks, puck possession domination, etc.

imo Leon has faced criticisms his whole career primarily due to his unique style. Some observers are unaware of their own bias.

• Every big/lanky player tends to look bad when they make a mistake
• He's a passer with great vision, and can make very risky passes with a small % going bad
• He does NOT play a Canadian (N. American) style
  • He is high IQ, very creative, and can speed up & slow down as he sees fit
  • Does not pass the "eye test" to some N. American casuals

 

[Perfect_Drug]

ha! I've been >10 years in CET. Saturday was a 02:00 start, otherwise many 03-04:00 starts, which means more like 04:30 puck drop!

I simply can't watch a lot of weekday season games, but games in EST and weekend (esp. matinee) are hella watchable over here in Europe.

Late starts is no excuse to pump false narratives and incorrect criticisms. Still I support it for my own entertainment. @HockeyVirus "He doesn't play a lick of defense. " is a simply wonderful comment considering Leon's complete game in Game 7 incl. several great stick plays, blocking shots, checks, puck possession domination, etc.

imo Leon has faced criticisms his whole career primarily due to his unique style. Some observers are unaware of their own bias.

• Every big/lanky player tends to look bad when they make a mistake
• He's a passer with great vision, and can make very risky passes with a small % going bad
• He does NOT play a Canadian (N. American) style
  • He is high IQ, very creative, and can speed up & slow down as he sees fit
  • Does not pass the "eye test" to some N. American casuals

You assume they watch games at all.

I work with a bunch of 'hockey fans' who have almost never actually watched Draisaitl this season, but have strong opinions about poor his defense. Because they read it on the internet somewhere 5 years ago.

 

[HockeyVirus]

ha! I've been >10 years in CET. Saturday was a 02:00 start, otherwise many 03-04:00 starts, which means more like 04:30 puck drop!

I simply can't watch a lot of weekday season games, but games in EST and weekend (esp. matinee) are hella watchable over here in Europe.

Late starts is no excuse to pump false narratives and incorrect criticisms. Still I support it for my own entertainment. @HockeyVirus "He doesn't play a lick of defense. " is a simply wonderful comment considering Leon's complete game in Game 7 incl. several great stick plays, blocking shots, checks, puck possession domination, etc.

imo Leon has faced criticisms his whole career primarily due to his unique style. Some observers are unaware of their own bias.

• Every big/lanky player tends to look bad when they make a mistake
• He's a passer with great vision, and can make very risky passes with a small % going bad
• He does NOT play a Canadian (N. American) style
  • He is high IQ, very creative, and can speed up & slow down as he sees fit
  • Does not pass the "eye test" to some N. American casuals

I'm not going to comment on the context, but I gotta say 10/10 username.

 

[SaltNPeca]

I'm not going to comment on the context, but I gotta say 10/10 username.

Although I bless your comment with my Reply, I take solace in the fact that @Pass the Saitl Sauce will never like your comments ITT

 

[blundluntman]

I'm the one shifting the goalposts??? Did you read the thread title?

Of course he's performing well. But that's not what the thread title says.

Yes, it says one of the best playoff performers, not one of the greatest playoff resumes of all time. Performance = on a per game basis, and his is up there with the best over a decent stretch of seasons. You can perform extremely well and not make it to the cup finals, the two aren't mutually exclusive like you're making it out to be.

 

[Duke74]

You assume they watch games at all.

I work with a bunch of 'hockey fans' who have almost never actually watched Draisaitl this season, but have strong opinions about poor his defense. Because they read it on the internet somewhere 5 years ago.

It's amazing that people actually cling to narratives that predate even the "bad defence" takes. Even earlier this playoff, people were saying that Draisaitl owes all of his success to McDavid. Imagine still thinking that in 2024

 

[zenator]

Leon certainly is a great playoff performer. In fact, the league's best 4 players are all great playoff performers...

McDavid, MacKinnin, Kucherov, Draisaitl.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Do you still unironically think this? One of the most dominant defensive games from a forward I’ve seen in years last night

just let it go.

It sounds like some posters haven't seen an Oiler since 2017 given the way they talk about them. Oilers usually play past their bedtimes.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

Leon certainly is a great playoff performer. In fact, the league's best 4 players are all great playoff performers...

McDavid, MacKinnin, Kucherov, Draisaitl.

2/4 of those guys are in a class of their own.