Noah Dobson or Evan Bouchard?

[snipes]

He’s been a beast. Both defensively and picking his spots to contribute some offense.

Played 24:37 TOI tonight. In Nurses absence he’s stepped up into the #1dman role as a rookie. He’s a huge part of the Oilers ascension into one of the top teams of the west.

Even once Nurse returns he has a lock on the #2 role.

Long term, Bouchard could up being our all situations #1 D man. His elite hockey IQ allows him to be effective in so many different roles. Hopefully he gets more PP time in the future.

His puck movement and offensive instincts are sublime. However, it’s been his strong defensive play particularly on the PK that really have become noticeable, he’s much more physical along the boards as well. No reason he shouldn’t be playing physical he has good size.

 

[c3z4r]

Bouchard was my pick for the Habs in the 2018 draft, so I’m happy to see him developing so well.

 

[Xspyrit]

Bouchard was my pick for the Habs in the 2018 draft, so I’m happy to see him developing so well.

Wait, you wanted the Habs to draft him 3rd OA?

 

[InfinityIggy]

Bouchard. I don’t think it’s all that close either.

 

[newfy]

I've honestly never been as impressed by Dobson as a lot of people on here were. Still not all that impressed in the NHL either. Bouchard was more of a wild card but it seems like hes got it together and is going to be very solid for a long time

 

[snipes]

Wait, you wanted the Habs to draft him 3rd OA?

Bouchard > Kotkaniemi

 

[Our Lady Peace]

At draft time I was skeptical about Bouchard since he had defensive and mobility deficiencies and seemed to be heavily inclined to offense at the junior level. Goes to show sometimes you just don't know a player as well as you think. He clearly wanted to put in the work to become not just an NHL player, but a top pairing D and he had to fix his weaknesses. He's learned and done just that. Also really impressed with how the Oilers handled his development and it's paying off big time.

Dobson is 21 and as we know defense can take a long time to develop. He may still have that Pietrangelo-esque potential at that.

 

[McAsuno]

Dobson; I'll take the defenseman who can actually play defence all day.

Nobody cares about your god awful opinions concerning the Oilers

 

[c3z4r]

Wait, you wanted the Habs to draft him 3rd OA?

Yes. I can't seem to be able to find my posts from back then, but iirc I thought he was bpa. My top choices were him, Dobson and Wahlstrom in that order.

 

[Box Score Watcher]

Liked Dobson pre-draft. Now, I’m much higher on Bouchard. Great offensively, doing well defensively. I’m on the “Edmonton can trade Barrie” train as I feel Bouchard could take that spot on the powerplay at this point. Even if he has skating issues, he is able to make up for it with his IQ, which is his greatest asset

 

[Oleksiak]

Nobody cares about your god awful opinions concerning the Oilers

And no one cares about Oiler fans who can't handle people who are critical of the Oilers. This isn't the Oilers board; people are going to give opinions you may not like considering one of the players in question is a massive defensive liability.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

And no one cares about Oiler fans who can't handle people who are critical of the Oilers. This isn't the Oilers board; people are going to give opinions you may not like considering one of the players in question is a massive defensive liability.

Defenseman A:
30.8 shots against/60
2.5 xGA/60
29.5 scoring chances against/60
12.6 high danger chances against/60

Defenseman B:
36.3 shots against/60
2.9 xGA/60
37.8 scoring chances against/60
16.2 high danger chances against/60

taking their names out of it, which guy is really the defensive liability?

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

And no one cares about Oiler fans who can't handle people who are critical of the Oilers. This isn't the Oilers board; people are going to give opinions you may not like considering one of the players in question is a massive defensive liability.

...and people are going to give their opinions on your opinions. It's the circle of life.

OR...

...you could actually back up your opinion that Bouchard is a "massive defensive liability", and can't "actually play defense." The eye test and the results don't support your opinion, but I'm clueless when it comes to analytics, so maybe you've got some data that explains how Bouchard is a massive defensive liability, and that this isn't just an impotent troll job.

Again, I don't follow analytics well, so you may be right. And let's make sure that we're tiering players in a reasonable manner. Simply below average does not make your case, particularly considering that we're talking about a rookie playing top-pair minutes.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Defenseman A:
30.8 shots against/60
2.5 xGA/60
29.5 scoring chances against/60
12.6 high danger chances against/60

Defenseman B:
36.3 shots against/60
2.9 xGA/60
37.8 scoring chances against/60
16.2 high danger chances against/60

taking their names out of it, which guy is really the defensive liability?

Ouch, that might hurt his argument

 

[Tobias Kahun]

...and people are going to give their opinions on your opinions. It's the circle of life.

OR...

...you could actually back up your opinion that Bouchard is a "massive defensive liability", and can't "actually play defense." The eye test and the results don't support your opinion, but I'm clueless when it comes to analytics, so maybe you've got some data that explains how Bouchard is a massive defensive liability, and that this isn't just an impotent troll job.

Again, I don't follow analytics well, so you may be right. And let's make sure that we're tiering players in a reasonable manner. Simply below average does not make your case, particularly considering that we're talking about a rookie playing top-pair minutes.

He doesnt think Bouchard would even make the Canucks. And just repeats the same thing without backing it up.

 

[Oleksiak]

Defenseman A:
30.8 shots against/60
2.5 xGA/60
29.5 scoring chances against/60
12.6 high danger chances against/60

Defenseman B:
36.3 shots against/60
2.9 xGA/60
37.8 scoring chances against/60
16.2 high danger chances against/60

taking their names out of it, which guy is really the defensive liability?

I'll take the eye test over anayltics BS considering it's painfully obvious to anyone who's seen those guys play.

 

[Oleksiak]

...and people are going to give their opinions on your opinions. It's the circle of life.

OR...

...you could actually back up your opinion that Bouchard is a "massive defensive liability", and can't "actually play defense." The eye test and the results don't support your opinion, but I'm clueless when it comes to analytics, so maybe you've got some data that explains how Bouchard is a massive defensive liability, and that this isn't just an impotent troll job.

Again, I don't follow analytics well, so you may be right. And let's make sure that we're tiering players in a reasonable manner. Simply below average does not make your case, particularly considering that we're talking about a rookie playing top-pair minutes.

The eye test actually does back up my opinion, Bouchard is soft, slow, and stupid. We have different sets of eyes, so that might be a reason for the differing opinion. Bouchard is far worse than simply below average in his own zone and is as bad as Barrie in his own zone.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I'll take the eye test over anayltics BS considering it's painfully obvious to anyone who's seen those guys play.

Maybe your eyes are the issue.

Notice how you get so much push back, even by people who arent a fan of either team?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

The eye test actually does back up my opinion, Bouchard is soft, slow, and stupid. We have different sets of eyes, so that might be a reason for the differing opinion. Bouchard is far worse than simply below average in his own zone and is as bad as Barrie in his own zone.

Do you ever get bored of being wrong?

Taking L's all over the place.

 

[Kamus]

The eye test actually does back up my opinion, Bouchard is soft, slow, and stupid. We have different sets of eyes, so that might be a reason for the differing opinion. Bouchard is far worse than simply below average in his own zone and is as bad as Barrie in his own zone.

I would like to call you a moron but HF rules state I can’t, so I will not.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Bouchard > Kotkaniemi

 

[soothsayer]

I'll take the eye test over anayltics BS considering it's painfully obvious to anyone who's seen those guys play.

It's nonsense like this that will ensure analytics are here to stay lol.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I'll take the eye test over anayltics BS considering it's painfully obvious to anyone who's seen those guys play.

If you're so confident in your eye test, why assume that Bouchard wasn't the defenseman who gets lit up defensively and bleeds chances against?

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

The eye test actually does back up my opinion, Bouchard is soft, slow, and stupid. We have different sets of eyes, so that might be a reason for the differing opinion. Bouchard is far worse than simply below average in his own zone and is as bad as Barrie in his own zone.

In other words, you cannot support your opinion, and have no argument. You also didn't correct for variables. You have to consider that he is a rookie when the thread is centred on a forward looking premise. But instead, you compared him to an 11 year vet. This tells me that you're being disingenuous with your opinion, and that your opinion in-turn holds no value.

It's funny that you characterize him as slow, when neutral fans in here keep stating that his skating is not the impediment that it was made out to be. You hate analytics? Cool, let's go old school and point out that he leads his team in +/- (as a top pairing rookie). I'm just looking for a bit of information to support your claim that he is a "massive defensive liability" who is "far worse than simply below average."

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

I think someone’s eyes are really shitty and failing them based on the comments of this thread