Confirmed with Link: [TBL/NSH] Lightning reaquire Ryan McDonagh and a 2024 4th rd pick for a 2nd and 7th rd pick

[Stammertime91]

It's not THAT much better, but it is probably better, andit's cheaper, and there would be at least one player coming back to replace Sergachev. While also giving us the dollars to bring Stamkos back. Hard to imagine not being a better team for the next two years if we aren't spending 8.5 on a 3rd pairing D who's not even on PP1.

I don't think the team plans on keeping Lilleberg down. I think we are going to see Sergachev at RD. If not, utilizing them to hit +18mins a night will again be a thing. There's no protecting Sergachev necessarily at this point. It now just becomes a "matchup" thing where we utilize McD/Cernak as the shutdown pair.

I agree, its crazy money on the backend, but that worked. Like, we know that part of the formula was fantastic. Four of the six are together again. Raddysh/Crozier/whoever is pretty lateral in comparison to Rutta/Schenn/Bogo as well. So, it kinda just matters up front what we can do. Which, we haven't suffered offensively over the course of two years, either.

 

[Todd1a]

While true, you have to consider a few things in moving Sergachev.

1. I think JBB realizes no matter how much may have been expressed by McD himself, that not having him here the last two years was a big mistake. Leadership and play, big mistake.

2. Kucherov is a f***ing child. Trading Sergachev may piss him off. It's horrible to even consider that, but I always keep in mind the whole "guys got paid" thing towards Killorn years ago. If there's anybody on the team you keep in mind their "circle" off the ice, it's probably his. Unless you're Vlad and not entirely worthy

3. The extension and bringing McDonagh back... that just shows his hand to other GMs that he feels a bit uncertain. Couple that with Jeannot, how many here are going to get pissed?

After the 2022 final, I wouldn't have minded with McDonagh being two years younger at 2LD. To move Sergachev now kinda seems a step in reverse when we just took a huge one forward, overall.

I still have Cirelli circled as the guy out of here.

My thing is can you trade cirell for a draft pick and say someone making 3-3.5 per year that can give you his production?

I don't think the team plans on keeping Lilleberg down. I think we are going to see Sergachev at RD. If not, utilizing them to hit +18mins a night will again be a thing. There's no protecting Sergachev necessarily at this point. It now just becomes a "matchup" thing where we utilize McD/Cernak as the shutdown pair.

I agree, its crazy money on the backend, but that worked. Like, we know that part of the formula was fantastic. Four of the six are together again. Raddysh/Crozier/whoever is pretty lateral in comparison to Rutta/Schenn/Bogo as well. So, it kinda just matters up front what we can do. Which, we haven't suffered offensively over the course of two years, either.

Lilleberg Requires waivers i don’t think JBB takes that chance keeps him up

 

[DFC]

I don't think the team plans on keeping Lilleberg down. I think we are going to see Sergachev at RD. If not, utilizing them to hit +18mins a night will again be a thing. There's no protecting Sergachev necessarily at this point. It now just becomes a "matchup" thing where we utilize McD/Cernak as the shutdown pair.

I agree, its crazy money on the backend, but that worked. Like, we know that part of the formula was fantastic. Four of the six are together again. Raddysh/Crozier/whoever is pretty lateral in comparison to Rutta/Schenn/Bogo as well. So, it kinda just matters up front what we can do. Which, we haven't suffered offensively over the course of two years, either.

Right, but you're saying the plan is to do something Cooper has fought against for the however long it's been since he's been here. He doesnt play D on their wrong side for more than a handful of games at a time. I dont believe he's gonna start now, like 13 years into his tenure.

To me, the reason why trading Sergachev wouldnt be lateral is because his return would likely be more valuable to the team than Sergachev, with his current role and cap hit. We cant pay a guy for what he will do when Hedman slows down offensively.

 

[Sky04]

While true, you have to consider a few things in moving Sergachev.

1. I think JBB realizes no matter how much may have been expressed by McD himself, that not having him here the last two years was a big mistake. Leadership and play, big mistake.

2. Kucherov is a f***ing child. Trading Sergachev may piss him off. It's horrible to even consider that, but I always keep in mind the whole "guys got paid" thing towards Killorn years ago. If there's anybody on the team you keep in mind their "circle" off the ice, it's probably his. Unless you're Vlad and not entirely worthy

3. The extension and bringing McDonagh back... that just shows his hand to other GMs that he feels a bit uncertain. Couple that with Jeannot, how many here are going to get pissed?

After the 2022 final, I wouldn't have minded with McDonagh being two years younger at 2LD. To move Sergachev now kinda seems a step in reverse when we just took a huge one forward, overall.

I still have Cirelli circled as the guy out of here.

I mean again, Sergachev could bring back a forward we wouldn't be able to obtain with our other assets currently and I don't see us having 25M down the left if he can't play the right full time. We'll never get full value on Sergachev on this roster as long as Hedman is here, I'd rather have someone who can play a role we're lacking in like Demelo or Tanev (this would give us undeniably the best top 4 in the league)

I think we agree on Cirelli, I think I'd be funny if traded him and brought back Johnson for like half the price. Then we've just significantly improved our contract value and team flexibility across the board.

 

[JTBF81]

If he was planning past the next two years, we wouldnt have Tanner Jeannot right now.

He has to play a tricky game of trying to win now and keep key pieces for the long run. Jeannot was a gamble that didn't pay off, but trading future draft picks has mostly paid off very well. Even the 1st and 2nd traded in the Jeannot trade (the only picks I really cared about losing) wouldn't have helped for many years, if at all. It won't surprise me if more 1sts and 2nds are moved either, if JBB feels they can be used to acquire pieces that can be part of the future core. There's drafting mid tomlage 1sts amd 2nds and hoping they develop in 3 years or so, or trading those picks for more proven players or players with potential. JBB seems to favor the latter strategy more, and can't say the results haven't been a win overall.

 

[Todd1a]

I mean again, Sergachev could bring back a forward we wouldn't be able to obtain with our other assets currently and I don't see us having 25M down the left if can't play the right full time. We'll never get full value on Sergachev on this roster as long as Hedman is here, I'd rather have someone who can play a role we're lacking in like Demelo or Tanev (this would give us undeniably the best top 4 in the league)

From what JBB said today his plan is to have Mac , hedman, cernak and serg as his top 4 probably serg plays the right side or 3rd LD

 

[Sky04]

From what JBB said today his plan is to have Mac , hedman, cernak and serg as his top 4 probably serg plays the right side or 3rd LD

Didn't he say that was a possibility *if* that group was there in the fall and that it was completely up to coaching.

 

[JTBF81]

If this were 2003 when teams basically could keep their drafted players under team control into their 30’s, I would agree. Back then it was difficult to refill your team with young talent.

In todays NHL it’s much more important to be efficient with your cap space, you’re going to see talent on the market. Sergachev doesn’t bring 8.5m value to the rink nor Cirelli 6.5m, that money can be spent better elsewhere.

I disagree given their other cap constraints, the age of thelr LD, and their overall depth on offense.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

Have to think Serg is going to be traded before his NTC kicks in

Everything JBB has said today points to keeping both Cernak and Sergachev.

"The number one priority for the offseason was to improve our top four in terms of our D core."

"Now, we have a top four of Hedman, Sergachev, McDonagh, Cernak eating up a huge chunk of our minutes, a huge chunk of our special team minutes. They're all big. They can all skate. For most of the night, we have high end defensemen on the ice wearing the right jersey."

“Obviously, having Victor and Ryan around, now Sergy and Cerny are some of those veteran guys too [that can] help mentor young defensemen coming into the league like Emil (Lilleberg) and like Max Crozier."

 

[Todd1a]

Didn't he say that was a possibility *if* that group was there in the fall and that it was completely up to coaching.

Everything JBB has said today points to keeping both Cernak and Sergachev.

Only defenseman I see is trading is perbix to a team like the sharks for a late pick

 

[Stammertime91]

Right, but you're saying the plan is to do something Cooper has fought against for the however long it's been since he's been here. He doesnt play D on their wrong side for more than a handful of games at a time. I dont believe he's gonna start now, like 13 years into his tenure.

To me, the reason why trading Sergachev wouldnt be lateral is because his return would likely be more valuable to the team than Sergachev, with his current role and cap hit. We cant pay a guy for what he will do when Hedman slows down offensively.

He's also evolved on some things over the course of his career. While that's not one, Sergachev is much more mobile than the recent off hand experiment with Dumba. If not, you just keep what worked for 11 straight series. It's really that simple. If you win games and cups with an expensive backend, you do it. You don't f*** with it at that point just for cap allocation. We've seen the result, you just have to hope the magic is rekindled. I don't necessarily disagree with trading him, I just (1) dont' see it happening after *today* and (2) I would roll the year with them and see what it brings. Move him in 2025 if this blew up in our face.

I mean again, Sergachev could bring back a forward we wouldn't be able to obtain with our other assets currently and I don't see us having 25M down the left if can't play the right full time. We'll never get full value on Sergachev on this roster as long as Hedman is here, I'd rather have someone who can play a role we're lacking in like Demelo or Tanev (this would give us undeniably the best top 4 in the league)

Kinda what I said above, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but the prospect of having this defense together again is something you don't immediately break up. To me, McDonagh is the best defensive defenseman since I started watching in 2003 to play in a Lightning sweater. I know someone will disagree, but his transition game and decisions in our end are f***ing unreal. He's been my favorite defenseman not in a Lightning sweater back to around 2015. So, I am on board with him > Sergachev, definitely drool at the package Sergachev could return, I just don't think that's the direction you take *now*. Our team isn't dire offensively. Is Lilleberg going to offset the loss, while having that additional forward eclipses what we've had? I mean, probably if we get a fit. I'd be more confident in making that move if we got rid of Sheary and Jeannot, rebuilt the bottom six and said here's a 1-2 of Hedman/McD with an effective bottom six. If we have play money to revamp the bottom six, yeah. Sure. Who wouldn't?

 

[DFC]

He has to play a tricky game of trying to win now and keep key pieces for the long run. Jeannot was a gamble that didn't pay off, but trading future draft picks has mostly paid off very well. Even the 1st and 2nd traded in the Jeannot trade (the only picks I really cared about losing) wouldn't have helped for many years, if at all. It won't surprise me if more 1sts and 2nds are moved either, if JBB feels they can be used to acquire pieces that can be part of the future core. There's drafting mid tomlage 1sts amd 2nds and hoping they develop in 3 years or so, or trading those picks for more proven players or players with potential. JBB seems to favor the latter strategy more, and can't say the results haven't been a win overall.

If Sergachev was making 5m, I'd agree. But he's the highest paid D on the team who looks like he might be on the 3rd pairing next year, with no PP1 time. I dont think its gonna work to pay him like "the guy" for half his contract.

Furthermore, if JBB believes Sergachev is the #1 on a contending team, he probably should be fired. We will still need someone better, and younger, when Hedman leaves. Because those years will be lean.

He has to play a tricky game of trying to win now and keep key pieces for the long run. Jeannot was a gamble that didn't pay off, but trading future draft picks has mostly paid off very well. Even the 1st and 2nd traded in the Jeannot trade (the only picks I really cared about losing) wouldn't have helped for many years, if at all. It won't surprise me if more 1sts and 2nds are moved either, if JBB feels they can be used to acquire pieces that can be part of the future core. There's drafting mid tomlage 1sts amd 2nds and hoping they develop in 3 years or so, or trading those picks for more proven players or players with potential. JBB seems to favor the latter strategy more, and can't say the results haven't been a win overall.

If Sergachev was making 5m, I'd agree. But he's the highest paid D on the team who looks like he might be on the 3rd pairing next year, with no PP1 time. I dont think its gonna work to pay him like "the guy" for half his contract.

Furthermore, if JBB believes Sergachev is the #1 on a contending team, he probably should be fired. We will still need someone better, and younger, when Hedman leaves. Because those years will be lean.

 

[OurlordAndSaviorKuch]

He played plenty of shifts at RD with Heddy. Heddy cleans up most of the mess but the upside is there for offensive One starts. While Serg hasn't been overly impressive in his own end, his offense has continued to improve. He's one of the only dman we have that actually shoots the puck as well.

I mean when Heddy actually shoots good things happen it’s just getting him to shoot

 

[DFC]

Only defenseman I see is trading is perbix to a team like the sharks for a late pick

If this is the plan, it's idiotic. Because, on top of paying 8.5 to a guy who's not going to be on the right side under Cooper, it probably costs you Stamkos.

 

[OurlordAndSaviorKuch]

Fleeced by Nashville again.

They own JBB in trades can we stop dealing with them?

 

[DFC]

He's also evolved on some things over the course of his career. While that's not one, Sergachev is much more mobile than the recent off hand experiment with Dumba. If not, you just keep what worked for 11 straight series. It's really that simple. If you win games and cups with an expensive backend, you do it. You don't f*** with it at that point just for cap allocation. We've seen the result, you just have to hope the magic is rekindled. I don't necessarily disagree with trading him, I just (1) dont' see it happening after *today* and (2) I would roll the year with them and see what it brings. Move him in 2025 if this blew up in our face.

Kinda what I said above, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but the prospect of having this defense together again is something you don't immediately break up. To me, McDonagh is the best defensive defenseman since I started watching in 2003 to play in a Lightning sweater. I know someone will disagree, but his transition game and decisions in our end are f***ing unreal. He's been my favorite defenseman not in a Lightning sweater back to around 2015. So, I am on board with him > Sergachev, definitely drool at the package Sergachev could return, I just don't think that's the direction you take *now*. Our team isn't dire offensively. Is Lilleberg going to offset the loss, while having that additional forward eclipses what we've had? I mean, probably if we get a fit. I'd be more confident in making that move if we got rid of Sheary and Jeannot, rebuilt the bottom six and said here's a 1-2 of Hedman/McD with an effective bottom six. If we have play money to revamp the bottom six, yeah. Sure. Who wouldn't?

The back end wasnt all that expensive then though. Sergachev was the lowest paid guy in the lowest role. Now he will be the highest paid guy in the lowest role. And that money comes from the rest of the roster.

 

[OurlordAndSaviorKuch]

I guess he really meant it when he said this was home and felt like home.

 

[Rschmitz]

Ok JBB, so the plan is to trade Cirelli then.

 

[OurlordAndSaviorKuch]

Everything JBB has said today points to keeping both Cernak and Sergachev.

I would imagine then Cierelli is going to get moved.

 

[Stammertime91]

The back end wasnt all that expensive then though. Sergachev was the lowest paid guy in the lowest role. Now he will be the highest paid guy in the lowest role. And that money comes from the rest of the roster.

Good point, but it hasn't come at the expense of our offense. Those teams were stacked, one was over the cap, but getting 4/6 defenseman together again when we desperately needed a top 4 defenseman, this is a good thing.

If this is the plan, it's idiotic. Because, on top of paying 8.5 to a guy who's not going to be on the right side under Cooper, it probably costs you Stamkos.

Unlikely given those comments today.

If Sergachev was making 5m, I'd agree. But he's the highest paid D on the team who looks like he might be on the 3rd pairing next year, with no PP1 time. I dont think its gonna work to pay him like "the guy" for half his contract.

Furthermore, if JBB believes Sergachev is the #1 on a contending team, he probably should be fired. We will still need someone better, and younger, when Hedman leaves. Because those years will be lean.


If Sergachev was making 5m, I'd agree. But he's the highest paid D on the team who looks like he might be on the 3rd pairing next year, with no PP1 time. I dont think its gonna work to pay him like "the guy" for half his contract.

Furthermore, if JBB believes Sergachev is the #1 on a contending team, he probably should be fired. We will still need someone better, and younger, when Hedman leaves. Because those years will be lean.

Personally, I think Hedman plays another 6-7 years. At that point, his cap hit is lower and Sergachev is in his early 30s. There's so much that can happen by then to consider them lean. He'll get PP2 time more than likely. Raddysh is a good fill-in, but Sergachev probably goes back to PP2. I don't disagree that he's the highest paid/lesser d. That's valid.

Here's the thing though, looking around the league, who has a better backend with McD here again, and a better forward group? I'd say there aren't many as of right now. Then factor in the help this gives our overpaid 3GAA-ilevskiy. You'd keep these four together again until the wheels fall off, there's rust, and it simply won't move. That seems to be what JBB is set on.

 

[JTBF81]

Again, regardless of what Stamkos is looking at, it doesn't really matter. They can't sign him to much more than maybe 6 now and still fill in all of the other spots, regardless of who is moved. Since Tampa isn't really a team that commits to a guy for 8 years and then moves him, especially when he's a key part of the team and not in Coop's doghouse all the time, it's moving time for Jeannot to correct that blunder as best as possible, Sheary(to also fix a badnsigning), and Perbix(more redundant now and should still have some value). Nothing has really changed with the plan aside from the team spending more and improving the defense moren than.expected, while likely just not being able to add the one higher priced F. The offense didn't have to have that piece though, where as the defense really did need something.

 

[Rschmitz]

I disagree given their other cap constraints, the age of thelr LD, and their overall depth on offense.

The goal is to not get pinned down to begin with. When we dealt Connolly, Drouin, etc we continued to keep costs down, the extensions to Cernak/Serg/Cirelli weren’t necessary, deal one of them off and find help through the open market.

Florida built their team almost entirely through outside help, Vegas has done the same almost every year.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

Hedman chimes in from Prague

 

[Flat Ronnie]

If this is the plan, it's idiotic. Because, on top of paying 8.5 to a guy who's not going to be on the right side under Cooper, it probably costs you Stamkos.

Don't think today's move affects Stamkos. We have $5M in cap left. That isn't enough to A) re-sign Stamkos and fill other holes, or B) replace Stamkos and fill other holes if he walks.

So someone else is definitely moving. This fantasy of Stamkos taking a $2-3M long term deal is silly. They need more cap space regardless of if they plan on re-signing Stamkos or backfilling his position.

 

[Stammertime91]

The goal is to not get pinned down to begin with. When we dealt Connolly, Drouin, etc we continued to keep costs down, the extensions to Cernak/Serg/Cirelli weren’t necessary, deal one of them off and find help through the open market.

Florida built their team almost entirely through outside help, Vegas has done the same almost every year.

"Hey Julien... have you ever thought about moving... Cirelli....Cirelli..........Anthony Cirelli...Cirelli. PLEASE."